[Richard230]

I don't understand why Bullet and Classic owners are still having problems with the design and assembly of their bikes.  After all, RE has been making these things forever and you would think that by now they would have them completely sorted so that they are very reliable right out of the box.  RE somehow managed to fix just about everything on the Himalayan after that first disastrous model year and now they seem to be quite reliable, as Itchy Boots has proved.  So what is it about the 500s?  Do they believe that their customers will just not be happy if they don't have to fix lots of stuff on the bikes so that they can get to know them better?   

[ace.cafe]

I don't understand why Bullet and Classic owners are still having problems with the design and assembly of their bikes.  After all, RE has been making these things forever and you would think that by now they would have them completely sorted so that they are very reliable right out of the box.  RE somehow managed to fix just about everything on the Himalayan after that first disastrous model year and now they seem to be quite reliable, as Itchy Boots has proved.  So what is it about the 500s?  Do they believe that their customers will just not be happy if they don't have to fix lots of stuff on the bikes so that they can get to know them better?   

Well, it's a few things...

First, the 500s have been around as a displacement model for a long time, but the current models are pretty much completely different than previous Bullets. So, while it may seem like they have been around forever, it has only been 10 years.

Second, some 500 Bullet owners also get reliable bikes with decent longevity, while others do not. I cannot consider a single production example as characteristic of an entire production run of a  model, such as the Itchyboots bike representing all Himalayans.

The factory has basic typical production concepts/strategies which reflect the management's abilities. It is entirely possible/likely that Himalayan and 650 models will soon have equal production shortcomings as the other models produced by RE.

RE has always had cheap price with high profit as their top goals. I have never seen a quote from Sid Lal that he ever wanted to make the best motorcycle, but plenty of quotes about how RE made the most profit of any motorcycle company. Think about that for a minute, and you should have your answer.

[Richard230]

Well, it's a few things...

First, the 500s have been around as a displacement model for a long time, but the current models are pretty much completely different than previous Bullets. So, while it may seem like they have been around forever, it has only been 10 years.

Second, some 500 Bullet owners also get reliable bikes with decent longevity, while others do not. I cannot consider a single production example as characteristic of an entire production run of a  model, such as the Itchyboots bike representing all Himalayans.

The factory has basic typical production concepts/strategies which reflect the management's abilities. It is entirely possible/likely that Himalayan and 650 models will soon have equal production shortcomings as the other models produced by RE.

RE has always had cheap price with high profit as their top goals. I have never seen a quote from Sid Lal that he ever wanted to make the best motorcycle, but plenty of quotes about how RE made the most profit of any motorcycle company. Think about that for a minute, and you should have your answer.

That makes sense, but still, fixing simple chassis things like battery cables, metal head stays, improving the side stand safety switch, installing better batteries and other minor, but irritating, things like that would cost very little yet go along way toward causing less grief for the owner and RE's franchised dealers.  True, it might cut the profit margin of each bike by $10 or so, but it might be worth it to improve the new owner experience and RE's reputation. 

[ace.cafe]

That makes sense, but still, fixing simple chassis things like battery cables, metal head stays, improving the side stand safety switch, installing better batteries and other minor, but irritating, things like that would cost very little yet go along way toward causing less grief for the owner and RE's franchised dealers.  True, it might cut the profit margin of each bike by $10 or so, but it might be worth it to improve the new owner experience and RE's reputation. 

I agree completely.
 But have they ever done it? No.

If you had ever seen the innards of as many RE engines as I have, you would be appalled at what kind of junk they try to get away with. The inside of the Iron Barrel 500 engines would make you gasp with horror, and for just a few dollars more they could have solved it all and had good bikes on the showroom floor.

I will say that they are trying to make a better effort as time goes by, but it is the mind set of manufacturing management to use the cheapest junk possible, especially inside the engines where the buyer won't see it until after warranty.

I suppose that I shouldn't complain because I made some money fixing their flaws.

[suitcasejefferson]

The 500s are very poorly made and very poorly designed. Fit and finish is terrible. When you have to make all the bolt holes oversized just so things will fit together that is not a good sign. The frame on the Bullet is a joke. The original Continental GT has a good frame, and it looks like the new twins and the Himalayan does as well. That long stroke single makes a lot of vibration (which is good for me, I love low frequency vibration) but the frame is not designed to handle it. A number of Bullet owners have had their frames break. I have never heard of the frame breaking on a Japanese bike, unless it was crashed hard. I have destroyed just about every part on Japanese dirt bikes, I have turned wheels into pretzels. But I have never broke a frame. I have been watching a lot of long distance rides on the Himalayan on YouTube, and it seems to be holding up very well. I want one. But I'm also 60 years old, and as you get older you start to think more rationally. I couldn't get on and off the XT anymore, and it was ridiculously uncomfortable and would not hold highway speeds. The Rebel was an impulse buy, I bought it fairly cheap because the dealer was trying to clear them out to make room for the 2017 models, which to me are about the most disgusting bikes I've ever seen. So, having had 3 other Rebels, first one bought new back in 1985, I've had a thing for them ever since. They are too small for me, and get uncomfortable real quick. They also have tube type tires and no centerstand. But now I am faced with the rational decision to put the money in the bank, or buy another motorcycle with it. When I was young, I would have been willing (and did several times) to take out a high interest loan to buy one.

Right now I have to take a car trip up to Portland OR to spend a couple of weeks with my sister and brother in law. My sister has been in a wheelchair for a couple of years, due to cancer of the spine. When I get back I will go to the dealer and talk numbers. My 2013 B5 cost me about $1000 over MSRP OTD. But half that was our 10% sales tax. With title and registration, I think I got a pretty good deal. If I can get the Himalayan for a deal like that I will almost certainly buy it. I go to bed at night thinking about it. That must mean I want it really bad. But I have been scammed by so many dealers, both car and motorcycle, that I'm going to be careful. They have a tendency to say "we can only guarantee you this deal if you buy today" I usually walk out when I hear that. I don't like high pressure sales tactics. It's also the beginning of summer right now, riding season won't be back for several months. All that time I'd just have to sit there and look at it.

[suitcasejefferson]

Numbers didn't even come close. GOAZ motorcycles has a $390 doc fee. When I bought my 2013 B5, MSRP was $4999, and I got it OTD for $6000, including nearly $500 in sales tax, title and registration, and delivery to my house 100 miles from the dealer. Looks like RE has joined the Japanese brand dealers with their ridiculously high bogus fees.

[wildbill]

even I have done a complete turnaround and decided NOT to buy a new interceptor. just purchased and actual paid for a brand new triumph street scrambler which I think will be a far better bike in all areas. saying that though its a huge jump in price above an interceptor. if judging by my older 013 scrambler 865 model is anything to go on.
I think the c5 have improved over the past years but could be a lot better just the same. its not as if they give them away. that is price wise.
the Himalayan still has me interested in the idea of buying a unit to try it out. I think that idea will happen pretty soon.

[GlennF]

even I have done a complete turnaround and decided NOT to buy a new interceptor. just purchased and actual paid for a brand new triumph street scrambler which I think will be a far better bike in all areas. saying that though its a huge jump in price above an interceptor. if judging by my older 013 scrambler 865 model is anything to go on.
I think the c5 have improved over the past years but could be a lot better just the same. its not as if they give them away. that is price wise.
the Himalayan still has me interested in the idea of buying a unit to try it out. I think that idea will happen pretty soon.

When I bought my 2011 Bullet, the three finalists for a new bike at the time were the Triumph Scrambler, the Guzzi V7 and the Bullet. I was originally tempted to buy the Guzzi as my previous two bikes, an 80's GT550 and an XJ900 had both been shaft drive and I like the convenience of the shafts, especially if you ride on dirt and through flooded creeks a lot.

However given that I now live in town and actually use the Bullet to potter about and ride to work if the weather is nice, I do not regret my choice.

[wildbill]

yeah ive watched dozens of videos and the old version scrambler i bought the 013 model is a far cry from the new version i bought which arrives next week. i was suppose to collect it in Sydney today but decided they could deliver it for roughly $500-drop off the new and take mine away.
to keep on track i might order the Himalayan in sleet next week and see how long that takes to get. don't want white or black!i think the sleet is an interesting colour. this purchase is a bit of a gamble as both times ive look at a Himalayan in the showrooms ive thought-heap of crap and never sat on them. but it may look better in the sleet so i will get one try it out and if no good some-one will buy one cheap...lol
now if your into 2 strokes ive just lined up and purchased a Yamaha DT175 in mint condition. ready to go out and purchase it tomorrow so that should be interesting. have not had a 2 stoker since i bought a Suzuki 750gt new back in '73
so there are deals flying in the land of oz in all directions

[TAG_Foto]

I have a 2015 Rebel - just put a set of Jardine slash cuts on it and rejetted my carb. I love it. When I bought the Himmi last month my wife asked if I was selling the Rebel. No way. Unless you have to sell the Rebel I would say keep it! The Himmi is very nice but I've had some problems with the evap system failing and causing stalling issues (along with bucking in third gear). All of this is apparently due to a vapor lock - the dodgy workaround is to open the gas cap, which is unvented due to emissions laws in India or so I've read. It works short term. After the shop tried twice to fix this issue (second time by rerouting my evaporated fuel return tube which was kinked) the problems persisted and they (Gotham Motorcycles of Staten Island) ordered me a new bike. I hope this solves the issue as I love the bike. It turns on a dime and is a blast to ride. Love the Thumper thing. I have to say I wish RE would sell a vented gas cap for the US market. I suspect that would have saved them the swap I am looking at...

[Richard230]

I have a 2015 Rebel - just put a set of Jardine slash cuts on it and rejetted my carb. I love it. When I bought the Himmi last month my wife asked if I was selling the Rebel. No way. Unless you have to sell the Rebel I would say keep it! The Himmi is very nice but I've had some problems with the evap system failing and causing stalling issues (along with bucking in third gear). All of this is apparently due to a vapor lock - the dodgy workaround is to open the gas cap, which is unvented due to emissions laws in India or so I've read. It works short term. After the shop tried twice to fix this issue (second time by rerouting my evaporated fuel return tube which was kinked) the problems persisted and they (Gotham Motorcycles of Staten Island) ordered me a new bike. I hope this solves the issue as I love the bike. It turns on a dime and is a blast to ride. Love the Thumper thing. I have to say I wish RE would sell a vented gas cap for the US market. I suspect that would have saved them the swap I am looking at...

I had exactly the same experience with my 1997 BMW F650 Fuduro single. Including the experience with my BMW dealer not being able to fix the problem.  So my solution was to remove the entire carbon canister evap system and vent the tank to the atmosphere.  I never had a problem with stalling after that. 

[suitcasejefferson]

I have always removed all the emissions crap from every bike I've ever owned. On my 2002 Kawasaki Vulcan 750, I could not fill the tank more than 3/4 full without starting and running problems. By the time I had removed everything (it was a CA model) it filled a 5 gallon bucket. The evap system and PAIR system was the worst of it. It is still running beautifully with 108,000 miles on it.

But I need a bike I can get on for dirt roads and mild trails. And I prefer it not have tube type tires. I am not sure of my ability to repair a flat on a tube type tire by myself in the middle of nowhere anymore. Thinking about a Honda 500X or a Suzuki VStrom. I can still get on the XT225, but I have to have a 10" foot stool to do it, and I have been trying to figure out something I can carry on the bike. I could get a SPOT device if it turns out I am unable to fix the tire.