[Columbia13]

Hi
I am new to this forum and I am hoping someone may be able to give me some help.
I have recently purchased a 2008 350 bullet, the old style iron barrel with 4 speed gear box.
The previous owner kindly omitted to tell me there is a significant leak of grease coming from the gear box. It is coming from the edge of the laysaft bush on the left side of the gearbox below where the drive sprocket is.
I have cleaned it off and watched it seep when the engine is running so this is definitely where it is coming from.
The bike has only done 2000 km and is otherwise pristine and looks like new.
Has anyone got any idea what could be the cause of this leak and how I can fix it?
I have got 00 grease in  the box.
Thanks in advance.
Michael

[AzCal Retred]

You say the leak is coming from around the outside of the layshaft bushing? If so, the bushing or case has a deep score mark or casting flaw allowing the grease to weep around the bushing. If this is the case, I would likely pull the primary inner case to get good access, spray carb cleaner around the bushing to clean it and get a good look, then try Moto Seal or maybe "Indian Head Gasket Shellac" to try and seal the porosity/gap. If it's an actual visible hole next to the bushing, maybe a bit of "packing" (cotton wool) might be driven into the gap, first saturated with shellac/motoseal.

That spot is a very difficult area to see without pulling the primary, so I would take a hard look at the gearbox seal AND the clutch shaft seal at the same time. Grease shouldn't really "leak" anyway unless very hot. I would suspect either oil seal first. Disassembly is needed to remediate any of this.

[Columbia13]

Thanks for your quick reply. Yes it is coming from the outside edge of the bushing at about the 20 past mark if it was a clock face. I cleaned it all off then lay on the ground watching with the engine running, and within just a few minutes the grease started oozing out. There is no obvious damage or hole and everything looks a nice and tight tolerance. 

[mrunderhill1975a]

AzCal is right on target. As for my bike, I just tell people that "the bullet does not leak oil, it just marks it's territory".

[AzCal Retred]

OK, but grease doesn't really flow too well. If the box is full of grease/oil amalgam, maybe, but again, this bushing is directly under the two Indian-rubber seals that would be much more likely to leak, so any leakage will be seen there. In any event, you'll still need to pull the primary to get to it to accurately diagnose the source.

The question I have is, is this a livable leak? Gear oil is cheap, a bit of cardboard/newspaper/cat litter and a quart of 85W/140 will last a long time at a tablespoon every 1/2 hour or so while running. Replenishing "00" with gear oil is easy, harmless, and allows you to use the level check plugs. Pulling the primary covers is almost a "routing maintenance" event on these machines, so you'll need the pullers, seals & gaskets soon enough anyway. But if the leak is livable, "doing nothing" but topping up the gearbox is OK too. There are no points awarded either way.

Bravo MrUnderhill1975a. Another quip is "It's not leaking, it's exuding class...". In my Husqvarna days the fork seals were notorious leakers. We told the Yamaha riders that thet were designed that way to prevent stanchion galling..

[Richard230]

It sounds like you are the proud owner of a Royal Oilfield.    Best of luck fixing your leakage. It sounds like it might be a bit of a project.

[Bilgemaster]

Just for a gag--if only to illustrate the extent of the leakage--would you consider topping off the gearbox with some 90 weight or 00 grease or both as some do, going for a nice warm up ride of, say 20 or 30 miles, parking it on its center stand over a big clean piece of cardboard, and sharing a photo of that cardboard after an overnight slumber. I'm just wondering if that leakage warrants yanking it all apart, or if it's just sort of "acceptably drippy".

[Columbia13]

Hi lads, Tonight I took a close up picture with my mobile, and when I zoomed in I could see what what looked like a couple of pin holes in the bronze bush itself, very small and I wouldn't have seen them with my eyes. So I started the bike up and by the time I got myself underneath to see what was going on the grease was already starting to come out. So it is definitely the bush itself that is leaking, it must be a manufacturing fault, it seams almost porous. I have dabbed some gasket seal on the area which might help (I'll find out tomorrow), but at least I know what the problem is and that a new bush should fix it. Hopefully there are a couple of pictures attached which will show you exactly what I mean, if there isn't I'll try again in daylight

[Columbia13]

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[AzCal Retred]

If it's an actual porous bushing, leaking through holes on the end surface, a possible "fix" could be to clean it with carb cleaner to remove all oil, then drizzle some JB Weld over the bush end. If you can get it clean, the JB should stick.

The Primary would need to come off anyway, so maybe take it off and that'll give you better access to the bushing end to do a better "make work" repair. If it holds you're home free. Parts below - I'd use the Bronze. The bush in the other end, inside the kickstart spindle, would be nice to do at the same time if you end up taking it apart, and there is a bronze one available there also (H15).

https://www.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/partsbook-pages/617
STEEL - PART No. 112166 ; LAYSHAFT BUSH, CASE END. CAN USE H14 ; £21.20

https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/accessory-shop/4-speed/14510
PART No. H14 ; BUSH, LAYSHAFT (CASE END), 4SPEED ; £15.40
Change the poor quality cast iron bushes fitted to the lay-shafts of Indian made Bullets with these English made phosphor bronze replacements. These have a much longer life than the originals.
Suitable for all Indian made 4 speed Bullets and Redditch built Bullets 350cc (49-62) and 500cc (53-63).

https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/accessory-shop/4-speed/20627
PART No. H15 ; BUSH, LAYSHAFT ( KICKSTART INNER), 4 SPEED ; £9.40
BUSH, LAYSHAFT ( KICKSTART INNER), 4 SPEED
Change the poor quality cast iron bushes fitted to the lay-shafts of Indian made Bullets with these English made phosphor bronze replacements. These have a much longer life than the originals.
Suitable for all Indian made 4 speed Bullets and Redditch built Bullets 350cc (49-62) and 500cc (53-63).

[Columbia13]

If you zoom in you can see two tiny pin pricks, but the grease doesn't half come out. More than I can live with and it soon finds it way to the back wheel.

[AzCal Retred]

Maybe a pin punch could reach up in there & with a light tap, push enough metal back in the gap to stop or slow weepage to an acceptable level. You already have the good Bronze bushing, a shame to tear everything apart just to stop a bit of grease. I'd try sealing it off, either via peening a bit of metal back into the gap or finding a workable sealant. it looks like you've figured out reasonable access.

[Bilgemaster]

A bushing with an unwanted orifice! That's some ultra-special metallurgy there.

Lazeabout that I am, I'd be very tempted to give "AzCal Retred's" JB-Weld bodge a whirl before yanking it all apart--maybe with a little file or sandpaper roughening of the surrounding area just to help the JB get better purchase.

How the machinist making your bushing may have appeared

[Columbia13]

The gasket seal I dabbed on didn't work, so I tried some two part epoxy which this was much better. After a 30 mile run this morning there was hardly any grease showing. By the time I got home, so 60 miles or so, it was worse but still nothing like it had been. So some kind of sealant as suggested and maybe peen the holes over as well seems to be the way ahead. Thanks to you all for your advice, I'll let you know when I get it all sorted.

[Columbia13]

Just to close this off, I peened over the holes which in itself seemed to fix the issue, but to make sure I dabbed on some JB weld as well. I've attached a couple of pictures of my handywork. Thanks again for all your advice. Michael