[lucky phil]

1. not done yet
2. where do you think the stock set up gets it's air? 

With a rearward opening the stock setup make the best of an ordinary airflow situation and at least makes the flow off the cylinders and head turn 180 degrees to enter the intake, so it manages to source at least a significant amount of flow from the general mixed air around the under seat and rear wheel area. Not ideal but its the packaging limitations. Your design at present goes out of it's way to scoop as much hot air off the cylinder and head as it can get.
I'll be interested to see how you deal with this. In general I'm not really a huge fan of these filter and airbox mods I've seen so far.

Ciao   

[NVDucati]

Turbo that thang!

Yes Siree! I've been waiting for someone to do this. While I don't think I'll do that ... I'd love to know the details.
Wadda ya know about it Hoiho?

[lucky phil]

Yes Siree! I've been waiting for someone to do this. While I don't think I'll do that ... I'd love to know the details.
Wadda ya know about it Hoiho?

I'd love to know the details of why you'd mount the rear shocks inverted so the heaviest part of the shock now contribute to the un-sprung weight and makes adjustments a PITA before I'd wonder about the utility of a turbo charger.

Ciao

[fireypete]

Still, I'd love to have a go!  Stopping may prove a challenge...

[Hoiho]

Yes Siree! I've been waiting for someone to do this. While I don't think I'll do that ... I'd love to know the details.
Wadda ya know about it Hoiho?

It's Gizzo's pic from the DGR thread remember? It's as though the owner wanted something a bit different & asked himself 'what would Alan Millyard do?'

Pretty sure the upside down shocks are a deliberate distraction

[gizzo]

The shocks on the 535 come mounted that way. They can be flipped around if it bothers you..

The turbo GT is a local bike, been around for a while but you never see it out except for events. I don't think it's ever been around a corner, going by the tyre wear and the way they're OK with the dump pipe hanging down like that. To each their own. Looks pretty cool though.

[NVDucati]

I'd love to know the details of why you'd mount the rear shocks inverted so the heaviest part of the shock now contribute to the un-sprung weight ...

Curious, are rear shocks unsprung weight on the compression or rebound stroke? 

[lucky phil]

The shocks on the 535 come mounted that way. They can be flipped around if it bothers you..

The turbo GT is a local bike, been around for a while but you never see it out except for events. I don't think it's ever been around a corner, going by the tyre wear and the way they're OK with the dump pipe hanging down like that. To each their own. Looks pretty cool though.

Really? That's really, well Indian I guess.

Ciao

[gizzo]

Really? That's really, well Indian I guess.

Ciao

In a "want to be like the cool kids but don't really understand what I'm doing" kind of way? Agree.

[ideola]

With a rearward opening the stock setup make the best of an ordinary airflow situation and at least makes the flow off the cylinders and head turn 180 degrees to enter the intake, so it manages to source at least a significant amount of flow from the general mixed air around the under seat and rear wheel area. Not ideal but its the packaging limitations.

The stock air filter cover is hugely restrictive. The opening is less than 3 sq in, and it forces the machine to pull air around a 180°, then make another 90° turn into the filter, which it must suck through a tiny triangle opening that is even smaller than the opening on the stock air filter element. Breathing is the most fundamental aspect of making an engine (air pump) perform. It's not hard to understand why the DNA filter is such a vast improvement over the OEM setup.

Your design at present goes out of it's way to scoop as much hot air off the cylinder and head as it can get. I'll be interested to see how you deal with this. In general I'm not really a huge fan of these filter and airbox mods I've seen so far.

With the OEM design, there is nothing to block any of the heated air coming off the head and cylinder fins from passing directly into the airbox area behind the plastic cover. There is a large vertical opening (about 8" high and about 1" wide) between the frame and the airbox, so the engine is already sucking in the heated air coming off the motor, and it's having to work much harder than necessary to get it.

The scoop I am designing around has more than DOUBLE the frontal area of the stock setup. I've already devised a method of directing the air straight into the DNA filter, so it will be "rammed" in by the forward motion, and it will only have to make a 90° turn. The final piece will be to divise a heat shield on the that side of the motor that will still allow air to pass over the engine cooling fins while preventing most of it from being sucked into the scoop. The fun part will be making it look halfway decent.

[NVDucati]

The stock air filter cover is hugely restrictive. The opening is less than 3 sq in, and it forces the machine to pull air around a 180°, then make another 90° turn into the filter, which it must suck through a tiny triangle opening that is even smaller than the opening on the stock air filter element. Breathing is the most fundamental aspect of making an engine (air pump) perform. It's not hard to understand why the DNA filter is such a vast improvement over the OEM setup.
With the OEM design, there is nothing to block any of the heated air coming off the head and cylinder fins from passing directly into the airbox area behind the plastic cover. There is a large vertical opening (about 8" high and about 1" wide) between the frame and the airbox, so the engine is already sucking in the heated air coming off the motor, and it's having to work much harder than necessary to get it.

The scoop I am designing around has more than DOUBLE the frontal area of the stock setup. I've already devised a method of directing the air straight into the DNA filter, so it will be "rammed" in by the forward motion, and it will only have to make a 90° turn. The final piece will be to divise a heat shield on the that side of the motor that will still allow air to pass over the engine cooling fins while preventing most of it from being sucked into the scoop. The fun part will be making it look halfway decent.

I think you are on the right track.
I have been contemplating using the "tunnel" formed by the bottom of the gas tank to capture ambient air above the oil cooler and deliver it to just aft of the left side throttle body and in front of your scoop. Beyond the obvious benefit of cooler intake air it also defends the temperature of the fuel from engine heat.

[ideola]

I have been contemplating using the "tunnel" formed by the bottom of the gas tank to capture ambient air above the oil cooler and deliver it to just aft of the left side throttle body and in front of your scoop. Beyond the obvious benefit of cooler intake air it also defends the temperature of the fuel from engine heat.

This is a great idea as well. I hope to develop my simpler design soon, but I may come back to this idea over the winter while the tank is off and engine is out.

[2wheelsmovethesoul]

With all due respect, that's all well and good. But I can't help feeling like you good gents have kinda forgotten that your leg sits perfectly between the cylinder and the air intake.

And from what I remember about fluid dynamics and laminar vs turbulent flow, no ram-air function is ever going to happen with that setup and the rider's legs in the riding position. Unless, the intake literally sticks out about a good 30cms or so. I like NVD's idea better, and I'd still be skeptical about it because of technical reasons related to the tune of the rest of the bike.

The stock setup is more than sufficient IMO, for the state of tune that the twins are at. Besides, the cold-air intakes people are talking about,in this setup or even in the big bore kit, will probably only result in a few percentage points increase in the static air pressure, not really significant unless you do a whole bunch of changes to how the engine breathes- like removing the airbox completely and having a really big and unobstructed intake (to the airfront moving across the bike front to rear as it moves). See the ram-air intake on a zx-12r, or a Harley with a gooseneck turbo, or most muscle cars to be fair. Big point is that, the 650 twins even if bored out to the 838 or something kit, aren't what one would call 'performance' machines. Hence, it seems like too much effort and overthinking into something that doesn't quite benefit from it.

But then again, I'm also not a trained greasemonkey. Just my $0.02.


 

The stock air filter cover is hugely restrictive. The opening is less than 3 sq in, and it forces the machine to pull air around a 180°, then make another 90° turn into the filter, which it must suck through a tiny triangle opening that is even smaller than the opening on the stock air filter element. Breathing is the most fundamental aspect of making an engine (air pump) perform. It's not hard to understand why the DNA filter is such a vast improvement over the OEM setup.
With the OEM design, there is nothing to block any of the heated air coming off the head and cylinder fins from passing directly into the airbox area behind the plastic cover. There is a large vertical opening (about 8" high and about 1" wide) between the frame and the airbox, so the engine is already sucking in the heated air coming off the motor, and it's having to work much harder than necessary to get it.

The scoop I am designing around has more than DOUBLE the frontal area of the stock setup. I've already devised a method of directing the air straight into the DNA filter, so it will be "rammed" in by the forward motion, and it will only have to make a 90° turn. The final piece will be to divise a heat shield on the that side of the motor that will still allow air to pass over the engine cooling fins while preventing most of it from being sucked into the scoop. The fun part will be making it look halfway decent.

[Starpeve]

There’s a lot of interesting earlier posting about the tuning of the air box, it being a ‘Hemholz’ ( I think)
chamber, and the detrimental effect on
 the engine’s performance by any alteration of it. I was all for putting pod filters on , and chucking the air box completely but apparently you lose torque through most of the usable rev range by doing that.

[ideola]

With all due respect, that's all well and good. But I can't help feeling like you good gents have kinda forgotten that your leg sits perfectly between the cylinder and the air intake.

There's more room there than you think.


I've already checked that while seated on the bike; the rider's calf is not going to be pressed flush with the contour of the bike under the seat, even with knees tucked into the tank, mainly because of the position of the footpeg. It will not block the void behind the engine and in front of where I have the scoop. Even if it did, it would have the benefit of blocking the hot air lucky phil was worried about; regardless, this setup will still be way more efficient in that orientation than the OEM setup, even if there is minimal ram effect.

Also, not sure if you've perused the whole thread, but be mindful that I am doing the 865 big bore kit on this bike, so this is a mod to milk as many improvements as possible, small improvements though they may be, that should amplify the overall effect.

For me, it's not about "is it worth it". I don't really give a damn about worth. I paid cash for both bikes, and will spend that money again on mods before I finish them both. What I enjoy is the intellectual pursuit, the problem solving, working with my hands, making the bike completely unique and different from what anyone else has. If nothing else, the scoop will look badass. In my opinion.