Author Topic: C5 Classic...Normal Engine Noise?  (Read 2300 times)

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martinw650

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on: March 29, 2021, 10:29:04 am
As per the title, do you think this tappet noise is normal?

https://youtu.be/zeBzQWCCZF8


grey pegasus

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Reply #1 on: March 29, 2021, 11:34:41 am
You can not say „yes“ or „no“ as every C5 engine sounds different.  I had a lot of trouble with mine as it also made some noise from the cylinder head and I investigated what was wrong. Finally, I was  able to fix it.

Did your sound appear suddenly, slowly or was it already there when the engine was new?

My first impression was that the hydraulic lifters may have a problem, but such problems do not appear frequently. It is more common that your engine has an oil-related problem or the decrompression automatic is blocked.  There are several reasons why such a sound can be created in an UCE and you should perform the big exorcism. If you need more information, do not hesitate to ask.
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Haggis

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Reply #2 on: March 29, 2021, 11:55:12 am
Does sound a bit tappety.
Have you ever had the cam backlash checked or adjusted?
Off route, recalculate?


martinw650

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Reply #3 on: March 29, 2021, 12:05:31 pm
Does sound a bit tappety.
Have you ever had the cam backlash checked or adjusted?

No.


9fingers

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Reply #4 on: March 29, 2021, 01:14:28 pm
My first thought is that it is the compression release causing that........I had mine removed. But normally that sound disappears as revs rise, so not sure. Does seem a bit noisier than mine. Beautiful bike BTW.
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johno

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Reply #5 on: March 30, 2021, 09:31:28 am
could it be a failed hydraulic lifter, ie not charged with oil due to failure or a blocked fill hole?
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MannP

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Reply #6 on: March 30, 2021, 09:46:43 am
Sounds very similar to my 2018 C5 with 4800 miles on it. I have done regular oil changes etc and haven't worried about the noise. I haven't checked or adjusted the cam backlash either.

I have never owned a bike which hasn't sounded tappety, as least the tappets aren't closed!


axman88

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Reply #7 on: March 31, 2021, 03:59:35 am
Louder than my 2012 C5, which has more "Tic Tic" than I'd prefer, but not as loud as my C5 when the auto-decomp cam failed.  That was an UNRELENTING, Loud, metallic TANK TANK TANK sound like gremlins banging away on the innards with a small ball peen hammer.

Seems like the noise let up briefly in the video, which makes me think it might be lifter related.   I'd be concerned that a particle from break-in has gotten into one of my hydraulic lifters.  I would try a solvent flush and oil change.
 
If that didn't remediate the issue, I'd be tempted to pull the tank and pull off the rocker covers to make sure the rocker bearing blocks were fastened down tight.  While I had the covers off, I might run the engine briefly to see if I could hear or feel something that let me diagnose the issue better.  I'd be ready to mop up oil that spilled or got thrown around.


fressko

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Reply #8 on: March 31, 2021, 08:58:51 am
Kind of sounds like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUrOIk7Fkq0

but I think it needs expert ear to catch what it really is. Yours has warranty though...when it is fixed please share here with us what it was, thanks.


Antipodean Andrew

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Reply #9 on: March 31, 2021, 09:45:00 am
My fairly new (890kms) C5 makes a cacophony of sounds from the head region, but there is no distinct tappety noise. More a farting mechanical noise with no engine load, graduating into an exhaust noise under load.

I'm away from home at the moment, but when I get back I will have a go at making an audio recording of my engine for comparison.


martinw650

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Reply #10 on: March 31, 2021, 09:56:10 am
Thanks for the pointers and feedback.
The bike is being picked up shortly and taken back to the dealer's for investigation. They're also putting in a warranty claim for corrosion on the exhaust at the same time.

That's on top of the new tank I got, plus a handful of other issues, most of which I've fixed myself.  :(


TrianglePete

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Reply #11 on: March 31, 2021, 05:10:02 pm
Louder than my 2012 C5, which has more "Tic Tic" than I'd prefer, but not as loud as my C5 when the auto-decomp cam failed.  That was an UNRELENTING, Loud, metallic TANK TANK TANK sound like gremlins banging away on the innards with a small ball peen hammer.

Seems like the noise let up briefly in the video, which makes me think it might be lifter related.   I'd be concerned that a particle from break-in has gotten into one of my hydraulic lifters.  I would try a solvent flush and oil change.
 
If that didn't remediate the issue, I'd be tempted to pull the tank and pull off the rocker covers to make sure the rocker bearing blocks were fastened down tight.  While I had the covers off, I might run the engine briefly to see if I could hear or feel something that let me diagnose the issue better.  I'd be ready to mop up oil that spilled or got thrown around.


fressko

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Reply #12 on: March 31, 2021, 09:03:27 pm
dayum Martin, you really got the monday build lol.
Mine is on the way from dealer, I hope is a wednesday model, but im s***ting bricks tbh.


Guaire

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Reply #13 on: March 31, 2021, 10:27:07 pm
As per the title, do you think this tappet noise is normal?

https://youtu.be/zeBzQWCCZF8

Sometimes the oil has to get around to the tap-py part of the motor.
  As Haggis suggested, you might want to check if there is extra slop in the cam eccentric setting.
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Mad4Bullets

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Reply #14 on: March 31, 2021, 11:13:28 pm
They all make some noise to a degree but yours sounds more pronounced than I would consider normal. Here's a video link from India resolving a very similar sound. The video is in Hindi, but anyone can easily follow along regardless of any language barrier. The solution was installing new hydraulic valve lifters. It's not a difficult job, but it's somewhat involved and time consuming. I can't imagine a dealer would look forward to such a job, even under warrantee. An unscrupulous dealer would likely just replace half your oil with STP.

Of course bad lifters are just one possible cause for such noises, a marginal oil pump can cause similar symptoms.  A mechanics stethoscope would be very handy in pinpointing the source. I hope you get it resolved soon so you can enjoy the riding season.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9d8hgqqlEY


grey pegasus

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Reply #15 on: April 01, 2021, 06:01:12 am
Good luck with your dealer.

When I contacted my dealer after the noise arose he was not interested at all to investigate the issue. “Quite normal – they all have such a sound” he explained. As was not happy with such a statement and contacted the factory’s customer service. They sent their aftersales manager to deal with the problem. “Quite normal – they all have such a sound” he also explained. “No reason to care. The dealer will look for it the next time you bring in the bike for the service in 3000 km.

I decided to open the engine myself and found a disaster. The inlet rocker arm was defective due to a lack of oil supply. The reason was a defective O-ring at the oil pump output stud (the “famous” O-ring).  The story ended with exchanging the rockers, the valve and valve guides, the piston, the lifters, the oil pump, and made an oil pump and oil filter modification to get rid of the O-ring as a source of the problems.  Needless to say that I had no support at all from the dealer.  After reporting these facts to the factory the importer sent a new oil pump and rockers for free with the permission to install them myself. You may find the whole story elsewhere.

After finding some more issues and fix them the engine is running reliable now without strange sounds – and without a dealer doing the regular services.
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Karl Fenn

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Reply #16 on: April 01, 2021, 10:50:25 am
God what's wrong with these dealers they appear useless, just want to sell a bike nothing more.


Richard230

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Reply #17 on: April 01, 2021, 02:07:20 pm
God what's wrong with these dealers they appear useless, just want to sell a bike nothing more.

Apparently "They all do that, Sir".   ::)
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fressko

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Reply #18 on: April 01, 2021, 07:15:12 pm
At 1:08
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0pTz923hk0

that is normal sound. All else is not normal in a new classic 500 UCE.


suitcasejefferson

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Reply #19 on: April 03, 2021, 09:42:37 am
At 1:08
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0pTz923hk0

that is normal sound. All else is not normal in a new classic 500 UCE.

Actually that is not the sound I think a 500 UCE engine should make. That one is completely stock. Mine has been converted to a carburetor, and has an aftermarket exhaust. With the carburetor I am able to make it idle slower, so it has that thump thump thump sound an Enfield is supposed to make, and the aftermarket "silencer", which is anything but, makes the exhaust sound louder and deeper. I did the carb and exhaust mods shortly after buying it new in 2013, so I don't have much experience with a stock setup, other than I hated it. It could be that my louder exhaust is covering up some of that ticking noise. But it does still have a lot of mechanical noise, which any old school, long stroke, pushrod valve, air cooled single is going to have. You really can't compare them to a modern Japanese engine, which has all the charm of an electric motor (which is why I DON'T like them) and why I own both an Enfield and a Harley Sportster. This engine design is nearly 70 years old. You can't compare it to something "modern"
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martinw650

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Reply #20 on: April 03, 2021, 12:38:17 pm
My dealer is ok.
RE roadside recovery have collected the bike and it is back with them now.
Lets see.


Keef Sparrow

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Reply #21 on: April 03, 2021, 01:52:35 pm
This engine design is nearly 70 years old. You can't compare it to something "modern"
The basic motorcycle design may be over 65 years old, but the engine isn't. The current UCE engine dates from around 1995 and was a brand new design by Austrian firm AVL designed to fit straight into the old frame while still having pushrod operated valves to retain the 'old school' vibe. Although it looks old it was a completely new engine in 1995 and replaced the old 'pre-unit' (separate engine & gearbox) models with the gearchange on the 'wrong' side and external oil lines to the cylinder head. Apart from the frame itself and headlamp casquette I think there is very little left from the 1950's Bullets in the latest models.
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suitcasejefferson

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Reply #22 on: April 04, 2021, 04:20:56 am
That's like saying the Harley EVO engine was a completely new engine compared to the Shovelhead. They were actually were the same engine, the EVO (for evolution) just had an aluminum top end (like the UCE) that was more oil tight due to some fairly minor design changes that had nothing to do with technology. The engine itself is still a 1954 design. The main difference between it and the Iron Barrel is the unit construction. And about all that did was require new cases (but no new technology) that put the transmission and engine in the same case. Much the same as the Harley Sportster, designed in 1957 (unit construction) and the Big Twin (non unit construction) still use the exact same technology, which dates back to the 1936 Knucklehead, with only minor changes.

The UCE still uses an ancient design, unlike the modern short stroke OHC design of the Himalayan and 650 twins. It's hydraulic valve lifters were fitted into the same place as the old engines mechanical lifters. It may have had a few minor tweaks, but the only "new technology" on the UCE was EFI, which I got rid of on mine. The Enfield 500 single is in no way a modern "retro" bike just designed to "look" old, like the Kawasaki W650 and W800 are. In fact it still uses the same frame, suspension, and rear brake as the Iron Barrel.

My former 1966 Triumph Bonneville had a unit construction engine. Nothing modern about that bike.

Also, the overall quality of the UCE models does not seem to have improved much if any over the Iron Barrel. My 2013 B5 model looks like it was hammered out by the village blacksmith. It has had it's share of issues. But the wonderful feel and sound it has more than make up for those.
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fressko

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Reply #23 on: April 04, 2021, 09:43:20 am
One of the reasons I chose the classic is that it might well be the last chance ever to buy a newly built mid cc thumper with pushrods. My first bike was a 1954 german thumper, very similar architecture with the RE, same pleistocene tech. Might as well ride a dinosaur (aka proper bike) before electric kills all ICE. While the UCE is in theory a rather "new" engine, its general architecture is totally obsolete, which I love.

p.s. we are not hijacking this thread :) , we are merely waiting for the op to come back with the conclusion. Was that noise normal after all?


Karl Fenn

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Reply #24 on: April 04, 2021, 11:23:35 am
UNC engines go back a lot further than 1995 the British were using them for decades and decades before that the enfeild engines are a continuation of these designs, many engines were unit construction this is a common British design.


Keef Sparrow

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Reply #25 on: April 04, 2021, 02:39:26 pm
That's like saying the Harley EVO engine was a completely new engine compared to the Shovelhead. They were actually were the same engine, the EVO (for evolution) just had an aluminum top end (like the UCE) that was more oil tight due to some fairly minor design changes that had nothing to do with technology. The engine itself is still a 1954 design. The main difference between it and the Iron Barrel is the unit construction. And about all that did was require new cases (but no new technology) that put the transmission and engine in the same case. The UCE still uses an ancient design, unlike the modern short stroke OHC design of the Himalayan and 650 twins. It's hydraulic valve lifters were fitted into the same place as the old engines mechanical lifters. It may have had a few minor tweaks, but the only "new technology" on the UCE was EFI
The current gearbox has 5 speeds instead of 4 as well as the gearchange being moved to the other side but you claim it's still the same transmission? I challenge you to find any parts of the 1950's engine that are interchangeable with the UCE.
Quote
The Enfield 500 single is in no way a modern "retro" bike
No one here said it was a retro.
Quote
In fact it still uses the same frame, suspension, and rear brake as the Iron Barrel.
I don't remember the Iron Barrel having a rear disc brake? Or gas shocks on the rear? And the front fork design has been changed too from the design with the spindle on the front of the fork slider to at the bottom. The box section swinging arm is completely new as well.
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Richard230

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Reply #26 on: April 04, 2021, 07:27:57 pm
Also the weird snail chain tension adjusters went into the dumpster on the new models.  ;)
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axman88

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Reply #27 on: April 05, 2021, 07:04:38 am
The UCE still uses an ancient design, unlike the modern short stroke OHC design of the Himalayan and 650 twins. It's hydraulic valve lifters were fitted into the same place as the old engines mechanical lifters. It may have had a few minor tweaks, but the only "new technology" on the UCE was EFI, which I got rid of on mine.
I would agree with you as far as to say that the closest thing to a RE Iron Barrel engine available today is the RE UCE engine.  I don't think they are going to last much longer either, with RE being their own biggest competitor to the UCE with their OHV 350 and already on track to release a new 350 Classic which is the biggest UCE model currently.  I guess that OHV engine will become the NEXT, closest modern equivalent to a 1950's moto engine.

But, I would point out that between the IB and the UCE, the oil pump and oiling system was redesigned, and the bearings, and the piston rings revised, the timing chest redesigned, the exhaust pipe mount changed, the decompression system changed, the electric start system redesigned, the clutch redesigned, and the ignition timing technology changed.  You mentioned the hydraulic lifters already, and others talked about the primary chain and the transmission.  I can't think of any parts used in common, but there must be something, maybe?

It's too bad that changing one of these UCE engines from throttle body to carburetor doesn't let one toss the ECU.  Perhaps somebody has figured out how to cut in an electronic ignition system that doesn't involve too much expense and rebuilding?

I don't remember the Iron Barrel having a rear disc brake? Or gas shocks on the rear? And the front fork design has been changed too from the design with the spindle on the front of the fork slider to at the bottom. The box section swinging arm is completely new as well.
To be fair, my UCE machine came from the factory with rear drum brake, Offset spindle forks, and round section swingarm.


Keef Sparrow

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Reply #28 on: April 05, 2021, 12:16:21 pm
To be fair, my UCE machine came from the factory with rear drum brake, Offset spindle forks, and round section swingarm.
Yes, those things were still on the bikes when the UCE engine was introduced in the 1990's, but they were all replaced on new Bullets several years ago.
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Guaire

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Reply #29 on: April 05, 2021, 02:07:51 pm
Yes, those things were still on the bikes when the UCE engine was introduced in the 1990's, but they were all replaced on new Bullets several years ago.
UCE engines in the 90's?
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Keef Sparrow

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Reply #30 on: April 05, 2021, 08:01:06 pm
UCE engines in the 90's?
The AVL designed UCE engine dates from 1995 in 500cc form and from 1997 all 350 and 500 Bullets featured the UCE engine.
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martinw650

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Reply #31 on: April 05, 2021, 08:06:35 pm
2008 for the UCE according to Peter Henshaw's Book.



Keef Sparrow

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Reply #32 on: April 05, 2021, 08:17:20 pm
I got my information from Wikipedia (which I know is not 100% reliable) where is says the UCE first appeared in the Bullet Machismo in 1995. I think this model was only available in India.
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martinw650

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Reply #33 on: April 05, 2021, 08:29:44 pm
I got my information from Wikipedia (which I know is not 100% reliable) where is says the UCE first appeared in the Bullet Machismo in 1995. I think this model was only available in India.

That's miles out. The UCE first appeared in 2008.

The AVL lean burn engine was still pre-unit, as was the 5 speed.


fressko

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Reply #34 on: April 08, 2021, 09:43:48 am
btw
this is the sound of a brand new tribute black:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN-hD5wR2pI


axman88

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Reply #35 on: April 08, 2021, 07:05:29 pm
btw
this is the sound of a brand new tribute black:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN-hD5wR2pI
Interesting!  Also has a fairly obvious "valve clatter", in my opinion.

I'd like to solicit some guidance in what to look for to quiet valve noise.  My 2012 C5 has gotten fairly noisy in the last year, and I'd like to get it back to where it was.  I'm right at around 7900 miles on the odometer.  The machine was quite a bit quieter when I purchased it at 1700 miles on the odo.  Here's more background:
           Around 3000 miles there was a substantial increase in valve noise, but it was intermittent.
           Shortly after this, the auto decompressor cam failed, the pin stayed up and things got quite noisy.  I rode the bike a few miles in this condition, then put it up waiting for the replacement cam.
           Replaced the auto-decomp. cam and adjusted cam backlash and the engine was quiet again.
           Now, 5000 miles later, considerable valve noise is present, but appears intermittently.  I can start the engine and won't notice tapping sound at all, but it will appear later, or will be present on a subsequent startup.
           The sound seems at a minimum when I reduce throttle and cruise at moderate rpm.  Seems at a maximum with the engine under load or idling.
           Tapping seems to be coming from exhaust tappet, but hard to localize.

I've checked the rockers.  The blocks are secure and play in the rocker bushings is minimal.  With the rocker covers off, there seemed to be sufficient oil flow to the intake rocker, and three times greater flow to the exhaust rocker.

I'll try to make a recording next week when it stops raining.  My next thought was to open up the cam side cover and adjust the cam lash.  Is it possible to check the lifters in place?


Mad4Bullets

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Reply #36 on: April 08, 2021, 07:34:29 pm
Before tearing everything apart, I'd recommend investing in a mechanics stethoscope for starters.  They handily block out all noise except that being picked up by the probe. This simple tool can really go a long way in helping you pinpoint the source of the noise within the engine.

Based on the numerous videos I've seen out of India, it could be valve lash, failing hydraulic lifters, the decompressor mechanism once again, poor oil flow or something in the intake or exhaust rocker areas. The hydraulic lifters seem to be a common noise producer and replacing them can be rather involved. The top end and piston must be removed, as will the side cover. Other solutions are a bit more forgiving.  All can be done with time, patience and basic tools. And of course encouragement from the forum.


martinw650

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Reply #37 on: April 08, 2021, 08:45:05 pm
Thanks.

Here's an update:

Bike has been stripped at the dealers and the fault is with one or both of the hydraulic lifters. New parts are on order and the bike will be repaired under warranty.

 :)


johno

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Reply #38 on: April 08, 2021, 08:51:48 pm
That's good news in a way, make sure they examine the top of the push rods and rocker boxes for hammer damage.
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martinw650

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Reply #39 on: April 28, 2021, 10:19:07 pm
Further Update:
Thought it was too good to be true.  >:(
After being told we were waiting for stock, I chased up again today (I have to chase, not once had them call me) I'm now told the lifters are "under study with the technical department" and we should hear "soon". Yeah, right.

I'm assuming that's at Moto GB.

The dealer will chase again tomorrow.
So who knows. Is this them trying to find cause to wriggle out of it?
Not great service.


martinw650

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Reply #40 on: May 15, 2021, 04:37:49 pm
Got the bike back today with new lifters, supped and fitted under warranty.  :)

Was noisy on start up, but I assumed it just needed the lifters priming.
A few minutes later, nice and quiet.

By the time I got home (about 35 miles) the noise had come back. :-\


martinw650

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Reply #41 on: May 15, 2021, 08:08:45 pm
Does sound a bit tappety.
Have you ever had the cam backlash checked or adjusted?
I noticed today that the noise disappears when the engine is under load, but us very pronounced when on the overrun.

Does that point at cam backlash?

It suggests to me something that alternately has play, then hasn't. Does excessive cam backlash create a bigger tappet clearance in one direction?


martinw650

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Reply #42 on: May 28, 2021, 08:46:24 am
Latest update on this is that a new cylinder head is required and is on order.


Haggis

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Reply #43 on: May 28, 2021, 10:35:41 am
Say what.?
Whats up with the cylinder head?
Do you have a loose valve seat?
Not much in a head that will make a noise, valves and their seats are all you have.
No point in just throwing parts at it.
Off route, recalculate?


Richard230

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Reply #44 on: May 28, 2021, 02:10:52 pm
Say what.?
Whats up with the cylinder head?
Do you have a loose valve seat?
Not much in a head that will make a noise, valves and their seats are all you have.
No point in just throwing parts at it.

I thought throwing parts at a problem was the modern way of fixing things nowadays.  ::)
2011 Royal Enfield B5 500, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM Duke 390, 2002 Yamaha FZ1


martinw650

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Reply #45 on: May 28, 2021, 05:40:48 pm
Say what.?
Whats up with the cylinder head?

No idea, just the message I got from the dealer. I'll speak to them when I get chance.

It's not me that's throwing parts at it, it's a warranty job.


Haggis

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Reply #46 on: May 28, 2021, 07:29:35 pm
Yes, I meant the dealer throwing parts at in the hope that one of them solves your problem.
Sorry your having such a tough time with your bike though. 🤞
Off route, recalculate?


martinw650

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Reply #47 on: May 28, 2021, 07:41:36 pm
Me too, hope this sorts it out for good.

On the positive side, was told that my new exhaust is in, after the warranty claim for corrosion was accepted.  :)


martinw650

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Reply #48 on: June 04, 2021, 06:29:30 pm
So, the information I have now is worn valve guide/s.
This is on top of the lifter issue.

No UK stock of black cylinder heads, so wait goes on.


Haggis

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Reply #49 on: June 04, 2021, 07:34:55 pm
Fit new guides?
Can't see how worn valve guides would make the noise you have described.?
Off route, recalculate?


martinw650

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Reply #50 on: June 05, 2021, 08:02:24 am
The importers have recommended a new head.
Not really much I can do, unless I want to pay for the repair myself.


Keef Sparrow

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Reply #51 on: June 05, 2021, 12:52:36 pm
Sad that although quality seemed to improve greatly when RE opened it's new factory it still seems very hit and miss...
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fressko

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Reply #52 on: June 06, 2021, 07:53:32 pm
honestly, they should give you a new engine through and through...seems you really won the "lottery" with yours, between that and the tank. Yes quality is hit and miss, probably the last chance to get that randomness before electric kills them all, part of the package. Id say, fix it, keep it and enjoy.


Rattlebattle

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Reply #53 on: June 14, 2021, 02:40:33 pm
I see they haven't got any better....It seems to me that the dealer is incompetent. I would be very surprised if valve guide wear is the cause of the top end rattle. One (of very few) areas where the UCE improves on n old British singles is that the oil feed to the top end is pumped up there directly from the oil pump feed, rather than being a hit and miss dribble from the return to the oil tank. Consequently the oil supply is/should be massively improve, enough to warrant an oil seal on each valve stem to keep the oil from dribbling down the stem and burning. On old British singles valve guide wear was not a particularly big issue, there being a degree of clearance between the valve and guide. top ends were not particularly  noisy. (NB Triumph twins were a different matter as the geometry was wrong, so the rocker arm pushed the valve stem sideways as it operated, accelerating guide wear and creating a noisy top end). The UCE valve guides are unlikely to wear before the rocker shaft holders, a well-known problem with the iron barrel models and not unknown on the UCE models.
Although the oil feed to the top end is from the feed side of the pump it does rely heavily on the oil seal between the outer and inner t/s covers and on the relatively small oily that gets feed through the barrel and head gasket through to the oil galleries in the head feeding each rocker arm. These have been known to partially block; either that or the o ring oil seal is leaking because it was badly seated. In my opinion it is a stupid design. I can think of no other manufacturer that has the main oil feed rely on a joint between crankcase sections.
If the dealer has indeed replaced the lifters (Why? There's not much to go wrong with them apart from being blocked) he will have had to have spit the cases as there is a slew on the inside preventing their being removed from the crankcase. Could he have mucked up this job in reassembling the engine, causing a partial blockage or reduced flow to the top end and ruining the cylinder head? Valve guide renewal is hardly a big task - it was almost a maintenance thing back when we did top end inspections on our old Brit singles.
BTW to me the UCE is more akin to a sixties unit construction single like a BSA B50 than it is to say a pre-unit B33. It has little in common with the earlier RE iron barrel and was introduced in 2008 as has been said. Wikipedia is talking out of an orifice other than its mouth..
Glad I sold mine anyway. Good luck.
Sic se res habet: fractum est...


Crispyduck

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Reply #54 on: June 14, 2021, 03:04:02 pm
I had similar issues. A brand new bike but i found the inlet valve wasn't seated properly and was blowing back into the carb, the ignition timing was too advanced and the valve guides need to be replaced after only 10,000 miles. All of these items almost certainly cam from poor QC at the factory.