Author Topic: Who’s running the 16 tooth sprocket  (Read 4266 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

whippers

  • RE Curious
  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 403
  • Karma: 0
Reply #45 on: June 22, 2021, 08:50:20 pm
Just fitted my 16t sprocket. Plenty of chain adjustment to spare.
The nut holding the sprocket on was effing tight!
I'm going out for a ride tomorrow to see what the difference is like.

Please report back. I’m interested.
2021 Royal Enfield 650 Interceptor Baker Express
2007 Ducati Monster S4RS

The older I get the Faster I was


Starpeve

  • Starpeve
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,059
  • Karma: 0
  • Adelaide, South Aust- Conti GT 650 2019
Reply #46 on: June 23, 2021, 09:31:33 pm
Another bonus of the larger front is that I read somewhere whilst researching the swap that the 15 tooth front is right on the critical point of sprocket/ chain minimum size .
I’d rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy...


CPJS

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 425
  • Karma: 0
Reply #47 on: June 23, 2021, 11:06:21 pm
Another bonus of the larger front is that I read somewhere whilst researching the swap that the 15 tooth front is right on the critical point of sprocket/ chain minimum size .
14 teeth on a front sprocket is common so 15t is no problem.
Current bikes.
R E GT650
BMW R1200GS
Honda CRF250L
BSA B25SS

Still young enough not to care, too old to remember why.


Starpeve

  • Starpeve
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,059
  • Karma: 0
  • Adelaide, South Aust- Conti GT 650 2019
Reply #48 on: June 23, 2021, 11:27:44 pm
14 teeth on a front sprocket is common so 15t is no problem.
Maybe it had something to do with different gauges. It was on a professional website, I don’t recall where. It had to do with excessive chain/ sprocket wear.

I’d rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy...


Jack Straw

  • LAUGH MORE, LIVE LONGER
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,534
  • Karma: 0
  • Prescott, Arizona
Reply #49 on: June 23, 2021, 11:40:19 pm
Back when the CB 750 was new (yes, I'm that old) there were a few catastrophic chain failures that resulted in broken crankcases.  I believe Honda determined the small countershaft sprocket was a contributor to the problem.  At Hollywood Honda we did a few of those warranty crankcase R&R jobs.  I personally did at least two of them.  That was a lot of work as pretty much everything in the engine had to come apart.

On our 47 horsepower bikes and modern chains I'd not worry about the issue although I think in theory smaller sprockets may contribute to more chain wear.
Know-it-alls and blowhards will please go elsewhere.


CPJS

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 425
  • Karma: 0
Reply #50 on: June 24, 2021, 12:07:18 am
I went out today for a 120ml ride with the new 16th sprocket fitted.
My comments here are relevent to me riding my bike, how I like to ride it, on the roads I like to ride on.
It's difficult to easily describe the difference in feeling with the longer gearing. The gears are lengthened out a bit so you don't need to get rid of the first three gears as soon as you get moving, they have now become usable. The top three gears are much better for faster riding as you now have a choice of gears to use, where as before anything after 70mph it would be top gear.
I would have expected the bike to feel a little less lively with longer gearing, strangely the the bike feels a bit quicker accelerating, I only have that unreliable arse dyno to go by. My thoughts are that as the 650 is a torquey engine the longer gearing keeps it in the torque sweet spot for longer, I don't know, the bike just seems to keep accelerating for longer.
I think that, for me, it is the perfect gearing for my type of riding as the bike feels less buzzy and now when you go for that extra gear it is actually there.
In the interest of science I tried to see if the bike bike would struggle in the top two gears at higher speeds. Not in the slightest, 7200rpm in fifth and 7000rpm in 6th showing 115mph, I don't think I will be going there again in a hurry as after 100mph the bike was rather unstable. An indicated 80mph is now at 4800rpm.
Would the 16tooth front sprocket suit everyone? maybe not, if you do a lot of hilly two up riding or slower city riding the lower gearing might be better.
Any change in fuel consumption? I haven't a clue, maybe when the novelty wears off and I stop riding like an idiot ( unlikely) I may see a difference.
I would say to anyone, give it a go, as it is cheap and easy to do.
Current bikes.
R E GT650
BMW R1200GS
Honda CRF250L
BSA B25SS

Still young enough not to care, too old to remember why.


Starpeve

  • Starpeve
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,059
  • Karma: 0
  • Adelaide, South Aust- Conti GT 650 2019
Reply #51 on: June 24, 2021, 12:46:06 am
I went out today for a 120ml ride with the new 16th sprocket fitted.
My comments here are relevent to me riding my bike, how I like to ride it, on the roads I like to ride on.
It's difficult to easily describe the difference in feeling with the longer gearing. The gears are lengthened out a bit so you don't need to get rid of the first three gears as soon as you get moving, they have now become usable. The top three gears are much better for faster riding as you now have a choice of gears to use, where as before anything after 70mph it would be top gear.
I would have expected the bike to feel a little less lively with longer gearing, strangely the the bike feels a bit quicker accelerating, I only have that unreliable arse dyno to go by. My thoughts are that as the 650 is a torquey engine the longer gearing keeps it in the torque sweet spot for longer, I don't know, the bike just seems to keep accelerating for longer.
I think that, for me, it is the perfect gearing for my type of riding as the bike feels less buzzy and now when you go for that extra gear it is actually there.
In the interest of science I tried to see if the bike bike would struggle in the top two gears at higher speeds. Not in the slightest, 7200rpm in fifth and 7000rpm in 6th showing 115mph, I don't think I will be going there again in a hurry as after 100mph the bike was rather unstable. An indicated 80mph is now at 4800rpm.
Would the 16tooth front sprocket suit everyone? maybe not, if you do a lot of hilly two up riding or slower city riding the lower gearing might be better.
Any change in fuel consumption? I haven't a clue, maybe when the novelty wears off and I stop riding like an idiot ( unlikely) I may see a difference.
I would say to anyone, give it a go, as it is cheap and easy to do.
My experience as well.
It’s interesting that you note, as I have stated previously, the bike actually feels MORE lively and quicker in the lower gears, contrary to those who have theorised that taller gearing would have the opposite results. I agree with you about the sweet spot being better positioned, which was precisely what I’d hoped for.
I haven’t stretched mine out to absolute top as you have, but my belief was that the bike would handle it exactly as you have described.
Great feedback, thanks, Steve
I’d rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy...


Hoiho

  • Engorged Member
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,202
  • Karma: 0
  • NZ - 2020 GT 650
Reply #52 on: June 24, 2021, 06:09:58 am
I ordered a 525 16T and they sent this one below. New White Power Sports (gotta admire the longevity of that company name if nothing else) one has the same base width 7.3mm but the sprocket has a wider tooth profile at the tip of the teeth and the packet say it's for a 530 chain. It sits quite happily in the 525 chain, but I'm concerned it might rub the inner plates if it's not supposed to have that wider tip profile.

I'd have though a 530 sprocket would be wider all over, since the inner plate gap is 3/8" (9.525mm) vs 525 at 5/16" (7.938mm)

What says the hive mind?





CPJS

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 425
  • Karma: 0
Reply #53 on: June 24, 2021, 07:44:28 am
I ordered a 525 16T and they sent this one below. New White Power Sports (gotta admire the longevity of that company name if nothing else) one has the same base width 7.3mm but the sprocket has a wider tooth profile at the tip of the teeth and the packet say it's for a 530 chain. It sits quite happily in the 525 chain, but I'm concerned it might rub the inner plates if it's not supposed to have that wider tip profile.

I'd have though a 530 sprocket would be wider all over, since the inner plate gap is 3/8" (9.525mm) vs 525 at 5/16" (7.938mm)

What says the hive mind?




These are not my words, I plucked this from another forum.
Do not use a 530 chain with 525/520 sprockets . You are asking for major problems. there is too much room for the sprocket to move from side to side on the chain and you can destroy the pins/rollers this way. You also will wear the sprockets as well as the sprocket doesn't have to ride in the center of the chain.

You can get away with mix matching like that for a while, but nearly always you wear things out very quick or are asking for disaster.

Keep them all the same size. I wouldn't worry about the tolerances though. It's um "not a bright idea" to mix match like that.

A 530 in a 525 chain doesn't have the clearance either. it will fit, but rub and slowly destroy both products very quickly.
 
Current bikes.
R E GT650
BMW R1200GS
Honda CRF250L
BSA B25SS

Still young enough not to care, too old to remember why.


Hoiho

  • Engorged Member
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,202
  • Karma: 0
  • NZ - 2020 GT 650
Reply #54 on: June 24, 2021, 07:52:11 am
These are not my words, I plucked this from another forum.
Do not use a 530 chain with 525/520 sprockets . You are asking for major problems. there is too much room for the sprocket to move from side to side on the chain and you can destroy the pins/rollers this way. You also will wear the sprockets as well as the sprocket doesn't have to ride in the center of the chain.

You can get away with mix matching like that for a while, but nearly always you wear things out very quick or are asking for disaster.

Keep them all the same size. I wouldn't worry about the tolerances though. It's um "not a bright idea" to mix match like that.

A 530 in a 525 chain doesn't have the clearance either. it will fit, but rub and slowly destroy both products very quickly.

Thanks CPJS. Did your 16T look to have the same profile as the OEM 15T or did it look like my White Power 16T?  I am puzzled about the width relationship between the too (same width, different tooth shape)


CPJS

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 425
  • Karma: 0
Reply #55 on: June 24, 2021, 08:18:55 am
Thanks CPJS. Did your 16T look to have the same profile as the OEM 15T or did it look like my White Power 16T?  I am puzzled about the width relationship between the too (same width, different tooth shape)
Yes the teeth look the same on both of my sprockets. The 530 sprocket looks to have 'fatter' teeth even though the pitch(distance from tooth tip to tip) is the same.
If you can send it back, do so. Otherwise stick it in the stores and order a 525 sprocket, to run the 530 sprocket will cost you a chain as well.
Current bikes.
R E GT650
BMW R1200GS
Honda CRF250L
BSA B25SS

Still young enough not to care, too old to remember why.


Hoiho

  • Engorged Member
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,202
  • Karma: 0
  • NZ - 2020 GT 650
Reply #56 on: June 24, 2021, 11:19:21 am
After some google-foo, I'm pretty confident I have a 525 sprocket and the package is mislabeled.

Standard width for 525 sprocket is 7.25mm (some old charts have 0.284" or 7.21mm)
Standard width for 530 sprocket is 9.3mm (some old charts have 0.384" or 8.71mm)

My 16T sprocket


Ducati 530 sprocket


Harley chart in ye olde units


Renthal guy talking sprockets





NVDucati

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,616
  • Karma: 1
  • USA 2020 INT
Reply #57 on: June 24, 2021, 11:22:36 am
Interesting question, for sure.
I do notice that the package says "Unique Tooth Shape".
I think in the end you will need to contact them directly (https://www.whitespowersports.com/Our-Brands/mtx-sprocket) The internet will only expand the question.

If I recall, you are good at aligning your rear wheel.  ;)
Curious, when you hand roll the new one along the chain under the swingarm ... what do you think?
Member: AMA
Current Rides: '14 DL1000 ADV, '06 SV650N, '93 900CBRR, '74 Ducati 750GT, '06 ST1300P


Hoiho

  • Engorged Member
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,202
  • Karma: 0
  • NZ - 2020 GT 650
Reply #58 on: June 24, 2021, 11:35:56 am
Seems to roll along fine NVD.

This thread shows the differences in width and has a couple of shots comparing 525 and 530 sprockets on a 530 chain. At the bottom of the page he states "a 530 sprocket wouldn't fit inside 525 chain. It's a snug fit in 530 chain."
https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/surface-grinding-to-make-a-motorcycle-sprocket-1-16-thinner.55722/


CPJS

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 425
  • Karma: 0
Reply #59 on: June 24, 2021, 03:11:48 pm
After some google-foo, I'm pretty confident I have a 525 sprocket and the package is mislabeled.

Standard width for 525 sprocket is 7.25mm (some old charts have 0.284" or 7.21mm)
Standard width for 530 sprocket is 9.3mm (some old charts have 0.384" or 8.71mm)

My 16T sprocket


Ducati 530 sprocket


Harley chart in ye olde units


Renthal guy talking sprockets

I think you are correct, I googled the sprocket code No. and it comes up as Royal Enfield OE 16t 525.
Current bikes.
R E GT650
BMW R1200GS
Honda CRF250L
BSA B25SS

Still young enough not to care, too old to remember why.