[mitchell]

Hey all.

Just retired and will be taking my 1972 bullet 350 around the East coast of the USA, and Canada if it opens up, over the next few months.

   Right now, the bike won't start as it has been sitting for the last 6 months. I know, shameful/embarrassing. 

   I am quite sure that nothing major is wrong but when I kick it, the ammeter won't move a millimeter. After about 20-30 kicks the other day, it DID start for two seconds, died and now won't come back to life.

   I have a 'new' coil, wire etc but since it did indeed start the other day, I think it won't be a problem with the coil. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
by 'new' I mean in the box for the last several years from my last trip to India when I brought back a bunch of parts.

Carb, points all seem fine and I do get spark. Petrol in the tank, battery over 12v, new plug, but it is an unused spare I have had laying around.

I would like to have a couple of spare plugs for the trip but have exhausted google for the brand and model number of a plug I can go to a shop and buy tomorrow. Any suggestions of brand or type of plug would be extremely helpful as most sites I go to only have parts for the post 2009 models.
Otherwise, amazon is special order and wait up to two weeks or ebay from India and no telling when it might actually get here.

Any and all help is appreciated

Thank you

Mitchell

[AzCal Retred]

I run NGK BP5ES and BP6ES in my Bullet. Snidal says NGK BR8ES. I like projected tips, the coil doesn't make a lot of extra voltage to support a resistor plug, and I have never been able to keep anything colder than a BP6ES clean due to oiling past the intake valve guide. All these are readily available at the auto supply.

The ammeter is really troubling, as when the points close the coil charges, so the ammeter has to swing left during this time. No swing = no or very little charging to the coil, or the ammeter is frozen.

I really suggest reviewing and verifying the basics:
1) Battery Fully charged? 13.5 VDC?
2) Pushrods spin freely when motor is at TDC. Put your thumb over the plug hole, push down hard and kick the engine over with the throttle wide open - if the compression will lift your thumb off the hole, it should be enough to run. A valve can stick a bit open in its guide, the decompressor valve might not seal well.
3) Verify a nice fat blue spark with the new plug out & touching the head metal.
4) Pull the carb. Six months is a long time for modern fuel to sit. Verify float bowl spotless, no dirt, no varnish, no "crud". Pull out the pilot, main, & needle jet and make sure you can see daylight thru the main axial holes and the emulsion side holes. Clean as necessary. Blow some nice clean medicinal WD-40 through the passages. Make sure the float needle isn't goobered shut, blow some WD-40 from the fuel port past the float needle. Seriously, I'd dump the old gas into your car and refill with some fresh premium with a bit of Sea-Foam in it, old gas is bad news.
5) Verify fuel flow from the tap through the fuel line. A cup in a minute should work, these are pretty low fuel use motors. Tank rust is a killer on these machines. Install at least a 10 micron filter to preclude carb trouble.

At this point you have proven to yourself that there is compression (thumb test), good spark (visual), the carb passages are clean and should correctly atomize fuel, and you are in fact getting fuel to the carb. Spark Timing shouldn't have changed, if it was OK before it's still OK. If it still won't start, use some starting fluid (ether). It has to show signs of life in 2-4 kicks. If not, check that spark timing.

Troubleshooting responds to methodical, verifiable testing. Assuming or guessing just gets you either a long walk home or a roadside seat to the traffic pattern about 5 miles away from home.

Good hunting - ACR -

[Adrian II]

Whoa!

350 Bullet, therefore you want a short reach spark plug, the long reach types in the 500 Bullet will be no good! In long reach terms the Champion N4 or NGK B7ES would have been a good starting place, so you need to see if you can cross reference a short reach plug from the same heat range. Hopefully you won't have AzCal's problem with oil getting past the valve guide.

Remember not to buy a resistor type plug if you have a suppressor plug cap.

A.

[Adrian II]

Found it!

NGK B7HS or if you really want to spend lots of money on a spark plug, BR7HIX for the iridium version. I'll let you do some research if you want to cross reference the Champion or Nippon Denso equivalents!

A.

[mitchell]

Thank you all.

Today is trips to doctors and lots of non bike things.

Something puzzling me is that even if the carb is fouled somehow, shouldn't the ammeter move when I turn on the key and kick it?
I will pull the carb and clean it anyway but think it is not the culprit BUT, it is an Enfield that has been sitting, isn't it?
My tank has always had rust in it; new fuel in it now though. It flows well.

Tried to get the iridium one but all are special order and amazon needs a week to deliver...

Will try for the br8es or b7hs today between appts. But I never knew different types of plugs would affect the running temp of the bike.
How would I know if the cap of my coil wire is a suppressor type? I have one from India and I picked up another here at auto zone. Also, does the coil wire work by just jamming the end of the wire into the hole of the coil? I crimped the metal 'staple' just enough to get it into the old coil on the bike and wonder if that was done correctly. Thought process there was that maybe that wire was the issue. It isn't.

I know this bike and feel sure it is something 'stupid' that I am just missing. When I am on it every day, like when I drove it through India, it is a piece of cake to maintain.

I put a lot of time into it when I was laid off from covid last year and more effort after I recovered from covid months later before returning to work. It cranked right up every time.

 But, it has just sat for maybe 8 months now from neglect and not being able to drive it to work during that time.

Will let you all know in a couple of days, fingers crossed.

[AzCal Retred]

Adrian II - when did the 350's switch over from 1/2" reach? My Snidal book shows a BR8ES suggested for a 350, but no year is mentioned. Is that correct for the newer (1995 & up?) Bullets, or was there an error in it? - ACR -

[AzCal Retred]

" But I never knew different types of plugs would affect the running temp of the bike. "

Plug heat range determines how hot the center insulator runs at. The "heat path" is longer on hotter plugs, making the insulator tip stay hotter whilst running.
The physical length of the plug is a mechanical consideration, unrelated to heat range.
You need to run a plug that keeps the deposits burned off in normal usage for you. Too cold and these deposits build up, providing an unwanted high resistance path to ground and bleeding off spark voltage.

The factory range is a good starting point. Adrian II says the older 350 needs a 1/2" length plug, and suggested the NGK B7HS or Champion N4.
The 3/4" length plugs used in the 500 cylinder head (B7ES) are too long. Putting extra threads into the cylinder never has a good outcome. There is the possibility of mechanical interference with the valves or piston.

Too hot a plug can indirectly affect engine operation temperature if it induces detonation or preignition, "pinging", but they don't directly affect operating temps. I run hotter plugs to compensate for oil burning. If the plugs aren't coming out white & toasted looking or making it ping, and show a bit of tan color, they are likely working OK for your needs.

[Mid Mod]

Is the stock cap resister? I checked my 2002 bullet and it doesn’t have any marks on it?

[AzCal Retred]

Put a VOM on it and see what you actually have. Straight metal will be under 1 Ohm, resistor equipped hardware will have a much higher value like 5000 Ohms. Resistor hardware is primarily intended to suppress electrical interference with radio receivers in nearby vehicles, not an issue on your Bullet.

[Adrian II]

Adrian II - when did the 350's switch over from 1/2" reach? My Snidal book shows a BR8ES suggested for a 350, but no year is mentioned. Is that correct for the newer (1995 & up?) Bullets, or was there an error in it? - ACR -

The on-line reference I found said it was 1980 on. If you try fitting a long reach plug in a short reach head and kick the engine over you'll be grabbing the spanner to fit a short reach one soon enough!

A.

[mrunderhill1975a]

I'm trying to follow this thread, not sure what current situation is, but, with points ignition the ammeter "has to" deflect as AzCal states.  If not, the ammeter is out of the circuit (Kill switch engaged?). Broken red with white trace wire, or insulation on that wire worn and is shorting before ammeter.  As AzCal mentioned, I am also troubled by no deflection of the ammeter.

[nonfiction]

Check the leads to the coil from the wiring loom. The wires on my 2007 are very thin, and maybe a little more brittle than insulated copper automotive wiring I've known all my life. I had one that broke... I suspect it was giving intermittent 'microfailures'--little cut-outs in the days leading up to the failure.

Also check grounding points in the ignition system--if corrosion was present at one of these, but managed when you parked it, and it got a bit extra furry over the winter, corrosion can kill that marginal ground. Wire brush, dielectric grease, re-snug nuts.

[mrunderhill1975a]

Grounds/earths...good point nonfiction,....I had a similar problem with the 2004, the main ground behind the battery was corroded.  It would give a spark, but not enough to ignite the fuel. A small amount of corrosion on terminals can cause a lot of trouble.

[mitchell]

Thanks for all the help guys. I am in and out of my house and hope to have some better news for all real soon.

[mitchell]

OK Guys
Today I pulled out the old coil, replaced it, the coil wire to the plug, a new plug, cleaned the carb, battery charged, new air filter, gas in the tank, kill switch has never been used and was disconnected 20 years ago(never quite figured out a need for that thing), all wiring looks good, I dipped the tip of the plug in petrol and still...no go.

The plug I now have in there is from India, Mico/Bosch W145 Z 1. Will new-in-a-box plugs go bad over time? But I have now tried three different ones. I tried attaching the pic of it but I don't see that it did indeed attach to this post. It is a short threaded plug and one I got at a shop/dealer, I guess.

Ammeter doesn't move a mm. Even if the ammeter is bad, and I am thinking it is not, the bike should still start, no?

Lights work, horn works and when I flip on the lights, the ammeter lights up too.

Tomorrow I will pull off the headlight and tackle anything in there that might look suss but the ammeter is connected properly. I will also see if I have a new set of points and a condenser. If not, where can I get a set quickly? India takes weeks on ebay.

It's all my own fault as I had it up and running well last summer after I got my strength back from covid but I haven't ridden it in maybe 7-8 months,,,not even cranked it as I was too, well lazy/procrastinating/busy working. And, it is kept outside under a cover here in Florida.
As we all know, these beasts need to be running to stay running well.

Worse to worst, I will have it towed to a mechanic but that grinds me since, up to now, I have done all the work on this thing myself. Plus the cost of a mechanic.

I know it is probably something aggravatingly simple, but what could it be?

Also, if anyone knows how I can get the two carb gaskets quickly, That would be appreciated. The one on the float bowl and the 'diamond' - shaped one sealing the air flow from the filter box.

Thank you all

Mitchell