Author Topic: Effective tank capacity  (Read 1704 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Bertocello

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 9
  • Karma: 0
  • Belgium
on: June 20, 2022, 02:45:47 pm
Today I ran the tank empty. As a precaution, I stayed close to gas stations, but I still had a spare plastic tank with 3 liters of petrol. I didn't need it because in the last 5 kilometers the bike sputtered every now and then, in a tight bend, or when accelerating. So I could drive to a gas station. 5 days ago I filled 1 centimeter in the tank opening with the fuel nozzle and refueled until it turned off automatically, then I also stopped refueling. The fuel level was then 1 centimeter below the tank opening. I could drive 371 kilometers until trip "F" came on the display, then I drove another 185.8 kilometers until the engine started sputtering. I was able to fill up with 13.23 liters of petrol, again to 1 centimeter below the tank opening. Over the entire tank capacity, my consumption was 2,379 liters / per 100 kilometers. This means that the effective reserve, trip "F", is 4.4 liters.


axman88

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,873
  • Karma: 1
  • Vintage Motorcycle Fan
Reply #1 on: June 20, 2022, 04:51:08 pm
Personally, I hate to run any pump dry.  Certain types are more tolerant than others, but in general dry running can cause seal wear, overheating and other issues.  The UCE owner's manual used to carry an explicit warning about using up the last liter to avoid possible damage to the fuel pump.  I don't see this warning in the Meteor's manual, but there is a reference to the tank "Dead Stock" being 950 ml.  This may be inaccessible fuel, below the pickup point, and not safety stock for cooling purposes though.

The manual does talk about only filling to the bottom of the splash plate, to avoid contaminating the EVAP canister.  See pg. 35 and 37.

http://www.royalenfieldlesite.fr/spip/IMG/pdf/meteor-350-owners-manual.pdf

EFI system design, safety, and emissions issues considerably complicate things over the good old days.  Regardless, running a tank dry  can cause issues, because the bottom of the tank is where the water, dirt and sludge collects.  Sucking this stuff into your fuel system can cause some unpleasantness.  It is good to get accumulated crud out, by means other than trying to make your engine swallow it.


Dexter

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,814
  • Karma: 2
  • British Columbia, Canada
Reply #2 on: June 20, 2022, 06:23:57 pm
axman raises a couple of good points, especially regarding keeping the pump cool.

Maybe it is the high cost of fuel these days that makes people want to run it to the limit. I prefer to get a fill up soon after the "F" display has started to flash, noting that it starts and stops several times before it stays on steadily.
Past rides:
1966 Honda 65 Sport
1967 Honda CB160
1973 Honda CB750
1982 Honda V45 Magna - the most uncomfortable bike I ever did a cross country tour on!
1983 Honda CB1000
1995 Honda ST1100 - sold 2015 after 175,000 km
1996 Honda ST1100
Current ride:
2021 Royal Enfield Stellar Blue Meteor 350


Bertocello

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 9
  • Karma: 0
  • Belgium
Reply #3 on: June 20, 2022, 08:33:55 pm
My only intention was to inform my fellow Meteor riders how far you can ride after the trip "F" appears on the display. The pump did not run dry at all and I was perfectly aware of the fact that there is always a "residual" reserve fuel in the tank. Even after the engine runs out of gas. I don't think it's even possible to run the tank completely empty. It seems to me that any Meteor owner would be happy with exact facts about the contents of the fuel tank.
Thank you.


axman88

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,873
  • Karma: 1
  • Vintage Motorcycle Fan
Reply #4 on: June 20, 2022, 09:51:01 pm
My only intention was to inform my fellow Meteor riders how far you can ride after the trip "F" appears on the display. The pump did not run dry at all and I was perfectly aware of the fact that there is always a "residual" reserve fuel in the tank. Even after the engine runs out of gas. I don't think it's even possible to run the tank completely empty. It seems to me that any Meteor owner would be happy with exact facts about the contents of the fuel tank.
Thank you.
Yes, useful information no doubt.  Still, I would think that once the engine starts sputtering, that means the fuel rail pressure has dropped, which means the pump is sucking air.   But, I wouldn't be surprised if RE has refined their fuel system such that the pump's intake is higher than the minimum fuel level necessary to cool the pump.  This seems a lot better design than relying on the rider's self discipline to protect the pump.

Your numbers agree well with RE's published numbers of:
15.0 +/- 0.5 liter for total capacity
5.0 +/-  0.5 liter at low fuel warning
and 0.95 liter of dead stock.

I would guess that the greatest variability from machine to machine would be the level at which the low fuel warning comes on.


Dexter

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,814
  • Karma: 2
  • British Columbia, Canada
Reply #5 on: June 20, 2022, 10:58:36 pm
My only intention was to inform my fellow Meteor riders how far you can ride after the trip "F" appears on the display.

The only problem with trying to determine that, is that when the "F" appears initially and starts recording distance, very shortly after appearing, it shuts off and resets to zero when it comes on again. This can go on for many miles as the bike's horizontal plane changes going up or down grades, or you take some curves in the road. Did your calculation begin at the first sign of the "F", or after it remained on constantly, despite whether you were going up or down hills, etc., as the fuel can slosh to the pump side of the tank in those moments.

I would think trying to inform everyone of a specific distance one can ride when the "F" first appears is not very reliable and could get some riders into trouble if they rely on it, as a rider living in flat lands, like the Canadian prairies, would probably see the "F" long before someone riding in hilly terrain. The prairies rider would end up getting fewer miles from the "F" than the other rider would.

I haven't bothered to watch how many times my "F" trip meter resets to zero before it stays on constantly, but when it is constant, it's time to top up the tank, especially if there is some distance between fuel stations.

I trust you noted axman's caution on overfilling the tank too. My manual describes this on pages 35 and 36 though. It seems there are manual differences between certain regions of the world.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2022, 11:12:31 pm by Dexter »
Past rides:
1966 Honda 65 Sport
1967 Honda CB160
1973 Honda CB750
1982 Honda V45 Magna - the most uncomfortable bike I ever did a cross country tour on!
1983 Honda CB1000
1995 Honda ST1100 - sold 2015 after 175,000 km
1996 Honda ST1100
Current ride:
2021 Royal Enfield Stellar Blue Meteor 350


Weymouth John

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: 0
Reply #6 on: June 30, 2022, 07:57:31 pm
My only intention was to inform my fellow Meteor riders how far you can ride after the trip "F" appears on the display. The pump did not run dry at all and I was perfectly aware of the fact that there is always a "residual" reserve fuel in the tank. Even after the engine runs out of gas. I don't think it's even possible to run the tank completely empty. It seems to me that any Meteor owner would be happy with exact facts about the contents of the fuel tank.
Thank you.

Useful post thank you Bertocello. It's always useful to have the manual's figures confirmed.
John


wojtek_pl

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 27
  • Karma: 0
  • New one
Reply #7 on: August 12, 2023, 02:51:09 pm
Sorry for the stupid question. Do you refuel with motorcycle on side stand or center stand ?
Meteor 350
Regards
Wojtek


Veloman

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 129
  • Karma: 0
  • Worcestershire, near Birmingham UK
Reply #8 on: August 12, 2023, 03:23:52 pm
Either just don't overfill it or fuel could overflow and damage evap system.  Personally I always fill on sidestand.  No such thing as a stupid question! :)
« Last Edit: August 12, 2023, 03:31:40 pm by Veloman »
Past rides
1948 Velocette LE "Noddy bike"
1957 Triumph Tiger Cub 200cc
1966 Triumph T100 500cc
1960 BSA A10 650cc
1957 Velocette MAC 350
1947 Velocette KSS MKII 350cc
1955 Velocette MSS 500cc
2011 Honda Deauville 700cc
2011 Honda CBF1000 1000cc
Present: RE Classic 350, Velocette MAC 350 and MSS 500


OscarSass

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 425
  • Karma: 0
Reply #9 on: August 12, 2023, 04:21:59 pm
Either just don't overfill it or fuel could overflow and damage evap system.  Personally I always fill on sidestand.  No such thing as a stupid question! :)

Same here - I use the side stand which helps me pull away quicker, as well as avoiding the sin of over filling. 😇


royalhell

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: 0
Reply #10 on: August 12, 2023, 11:39:12 pm
This is quality research, OP, thanks for posting


CiscoGoodDog

  • Scooter
  • **
  • Posts: 16
  • Karma: 0
  • 2022 Stellar Blue Meteor 350
Reply #11 on: August 13, 2023, 12:44:54 am
Riding home from work one day when the display showed trip F. I was 30 miles from the nearest station and wasn't sure I would make it. Trip F shows how many miles you have traveled and I was chewing the seat all the way. Now I know that there is still a gallon left in the tank, and no worries getting to the next station. Thanks @Bertocello '-)


andif62

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
  • Karma: 0
Reply #12 on: August 13, 2023, 06:46:30 am
Yesterday I‘ve made a longer round. The F sign came up at 284 km. I‘ve fueled up at 364 km with only 10.1 l on my Classic 350. Never had a problem like bertocello.
Royal Enfield Classic 350 Chrome Red
BMW F800GS


PHIL53

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Karma: 0
Reply #13 on: February 12, 2024, 04:23:30 pm
At the end of the day...can we say once the "F" sign come up (and F trip start counting...) you can reasonably consider yourself safe as long as the next petrol station is within the next...30 ? 40 ? 50 miles ?


Carl350

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 622
  • Karma: 0
  • Southern Spain / UK
Reply #14 on: February 12, 2024, 05:42:27 pm
At the end of the day...can we say once the "F" sign come up (and F trip start counting...) you can reasonably consider yourself safe as long as the next petrol station is within the next...30 ? 40 ? 50 miles ?

    Yes.
    It's difficult to say an exact "F" reserve distance because as has been discussed it's a bad idea to run until empty or very low.
    But 50 miles should be fine with a possibility of more but not necessarily recommended. 
    I think the best advice is just try & fill up as soon as you can without panicking about it.
    Also as Dexter explained in post #5 understanding why the F can reset a few times is good, as there have been a few complaint but it isn't such a problem if one knows why.