Author Topic: Acewell Speedometer Install  (Read 596 times)

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Blaqkfox

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Reply #15 on: June 20, 2022, 03:54:52 pm
         'Fraid not all same-same, Grasshoppah.

         Tire Revolutions per Mile is not the same as Number of Inches on the ground per Tire Revolution.

   

How so? You say do 3 revolutions and divide by 3, he says do 10 and divide by 10?

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tooseevee

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Reply #16 on: June 20, 2022, 07:29:10 pm
How so? You say do 3 revolutions and divide by 3, he says do 10 and divide by 10?

    You've compared the wrong thing. I have zero problem with using ANY number of tire revs. As long as you divide by the right number you'll get the same answer: the circumference of the tire.

 My comment was NOT about comparing 3 tire revolutions to 10 tire revolutions. Yes. THAT would be the same & would, of course, give you a number (in inches or MMs) that can then be entered into the device.

    What I said ( you must not have read it) was INCHES on the ground per tire revolution is not the same as the  NUMBER of tire revolutions per mile. AFAIK you can't enter revolutions per mile into these devices.

      Anyway. Hang in there. You seem to be doing a fine job straightening this AVL out & making it behave  :)
« Last Edit: June 20, 2022, 07:49:58 pm by tooseevee »
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Paul W

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Reply #17 on: June 20, 2022, 10:20:40 pm
My apology for causing controversy. As I subsequently said, the software obviously does does the necessary final calculation so you don’t have to work out the revolutions per mile yourself.  ;)
Paul W.


tooseevee

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Reply #18 on: June 21, 2022, 01:08:42 am
My apology for causing controversy. As I subsequently said, the software obviously does does the necessary final calculation so you don’t have to work out the revolutions per mile yourself.  ;)

      You didn't cause any controversy at all. He thought I was disputing your 10 revs, is all. and I was not.

      My point was that inches per rev & revs per mile are apples & grapefruit mathematically & that you can't enter revs per mile into the OS. He conflated that with the 3 vs. 10 revolutions idea.

       Enough explaining & airy theories  :) :) My old head hurts. How many convolutions per thread does it take to get back to where you started?  ??? ??? and what do you divide by  ???
 

     
'08 Black AVL Classic.ACEhead 9.8:1/manifold/canister. TM32/Open short bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades


Blaqkfox

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Reply #19 on: June 22, 2022, 10:10:45 pm
hmm still having issues. so I rolled it forward 3x, measured, divided by 3 and converted to millimeters and got a figure of 2006.6 so I plugged 2007 into the unit. Now my speed is reading way higher than it actually is. Id guesstimate about double or more what my actual speed is.

The only thing I can think is either this figure is not in millimeters or the setting for pulses per rotation of the wheels.

ive merely left pulses set to 1. I don't fully understand how they want me to determine this. The factory setup obviously has no pulses because its just a cable. And the available settings are 3 digits long. so you can have quite the number of pulses to a single wheel rotation. I don't understand why you'd have so many digits for this setting, this unit is only for the royal enfield 350 and 500 series. perhaps just some software they simply copy and paste onto the units... anyways, the instructions say nothing about this nor do Acewell's videos on their website explain it at all, so the only thing I can figure to do is try it at 2 pulses per wheel rotation (since im reading double the actual speed) but I would think that would go the opposite direction I want things to go, and theres no lie 0.5 setting so I can't go that way. Or I can tear the headlight back off and unplug it, get the bike up in the air, and spin the wheel around and measure with a multimeter to see if I can see it pulse and count the number of pulses per rotation.

But assuming its 1 pulse per wheel rotation then that would mean my circumference measurement ive entered is incorrect. I know I measured correctly, but perhaps I didn't convert correctly? as in maybe they want cm instead of mm? but then why have 4 digits for this entry??? I might just email the company and ask...

-Adam


AzCal Retred

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Reply #20 on: June 22, 2022, 11:17:59 pm
Well, there is the ham-fisted method of finding a County radar speed display and calibrating to that. Change the conversion figure until your speedo agrees with the official calibrated display as you roll thru the test area. As long as it's close you are good. Once you have the number that works for your set up, you can work the numbers backwards and see if anything makes sense. Likely you can guesstimate an initial value just to see which way it needs to go, run it up to 30 or so estimated in 3rd or 4th and see what has to happen to get the display to read 30.
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tooseevee

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Reply #21 on: June 23, 2022, 12:34:58 pm
hmm still having issues. so I rolled it forward 3x, measured, divided by 3 and converted to millimeters and got a figure of 2006.6 so I plugged 2007 into the unit. Now my speed is reading way higher than it actually is. Id guesstimate about double or more what my actual speed is.

The only thing I can think is either this figure is not in millimeters or the setting for pulses per rotation of the wheels.

ive merely left pulses set to 1. I don't fully understand how they want me to determine this. The factory setup obviously has no pulses because its just a cable. And the available settings are 3 digits long. so you can have quite the number of pulses to a single wheel rotation. I don't understand why you'd have so many digits for this setting, this unit is only for the royal enfield 350 and 500 series. perhaps just some software they simply copy and paste onto the units... anyways, the instructions say nothing about this nor do Acewell's videos on their website explain it at all, so the only thing I can figure to do is try it at 2 pulses per wheel rotation (since im reading double the actual speed) but I would think that would go the opposite direction I want things to go, and theres no lie 0.5 setting so I can't go that way. Or I can tear the headlight back off and unplug it, get the bike up in the air, and spin the wheel around and measure with a multimeter to see if I can see it pulse and count the number of pulses per rotation.

But assuming its 1 pulse per wheel rotation then that would mean my circumference measurement ive entered is incorrect. I know I measured correctly, but perhaps I didn't convert correctly? as in maybe they want cm instead of mm? but then why have 4 digits for this entry??? I might just email the company and ask...

    I went to the instruction sheet for your unit (CA080-100) & found that it plainly states that you must count the NUMBER of revolutions of your ORIGINAL speedometer cable per ONE tire revolution.

    This is the number you enter for number of pulses per tire revolution.

    Yes, the number you enter for tire circumference IS a 4 digit number in MILLIMETERS.

    You get that number with your 3 tire revs & a chalk mark (or tape on the ground or whatever). Divide that number by 3. Enter THAT  number (in MM). Yes. It will be a 4 digit number.

      If you're measuring circumference in inches just ask Google what that number of inches is in MM.

      OR as the instruction sheet says: Tire Diameter (in INCHES) x 25.4 x 3.1416 = wheel circumference in INCHES.
'08 Black AVL Classic.ACEhead 9.8:1/manifold/canister. TM32/Open short bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades


Adrian II

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Reply #22 on: June 23, 2022, 01:52:10 pm
The Indian Bullet speedo drive gearboxes (at least pre-EFI) are all 2:1, being copies of the original Bullet's Smiths gearbox.

The following may be of some use.

With a 3.25" x 19" Avon Speedmaster Mk2

Diameter = 25.9" x pi (3.142 or 22/7)

Circumference = 25.9" x 3.142 = 81.3778"

1 mile = 63360"

Therefore if we divide the number of inches in a mile by the circumference we get 778.59 revolutions per mile.

With a 2:1 speedo drive the drive cable (or anything else attached to the drive gearbox) will turn very slightly more than 1557 times over the course of 1 mile.

You will see similar calibration figures on the dials of old Lucas chronometric speedometers, with variation for wheel/tire size and the ratio of the speedo gearbox drive fitted. Smiths also supplied 21:10, 19:10 and 15:12 or 1.25:1 ratio drive gearboxes, unlikely to appear on an Indian Bullet, but you never know.

1 mile in millimetres = 63360 x 25.4 = 1,609,344mm

Tire circumference in mm = 658 x 3.142 = 2067.436mm

If you have an AM26 3.25" x 19" the diameter is larger than the Speedmaster Mk2 for some reason. 26.1" or 664mm.

A.
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tooseevee

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Reply #23 on: June 23, 2022, 04:14:17 pm

      OR as the instruction sheet says: Tire Diameter (in INCHES) x 25.4 x 3.1416 = wheel circumference in INCHES.
     
Oh good god! Huge typo (mistake).

That sentence in my Post #22 should not have even been put there.

Sorry. Did not mean to add to your problem, Blacqfox. Just  ignore that sentence.  :-[ :-[

If I could just Delete it, I would.

 
« Last Edit: June 23, 2022, 04:21:34 pm by tooseevee »
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richard211

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Reply #24 on: June 23, 2022, 05:27:22 pm
When using the hall effect speed sensor and the magnet, the number of pulses per revolution is the number of magnets fitted to the wheel. One magnet will produce 1 pulse per rotation of the wheel. If you use 2 magnets on the wheel you will get 2 pulses per revolution and so on. Total number of magnets on the wheel is equal to total number of pulses per revolution.

 Coming to the circumference of the tyre, I would use a piece of string and tape one end on the middle of the tyre, then roll the tyre until the piece of string winds around the circumference of the wheel once. Mark  the point where the string meets / overlaps the start point. Cut the string and then measure it against a tape measure.

 The instruction manual has provided some values for different tyre sizes, note that the circumference number is based on the Outside Diameter of the wheel.

 I maybe wrong but i think the circumference on the 3.25 19 tyre is around 2033mm. You could use a GPS app on your phone to check the accuracy of the speedometer
 
« Last Edit: June 23, 2022, 05:35:17 pm by richard211 »


tooseevee

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Reply #25 on: June 23, 2022, 06:28:08 pm
When using the hall effect speed sensor and the magnet, the number of pulses per revolution is the number of magnets fitted to the wheel. One magnet will produce 1 pulse per rotation of the wheel. If you use 2 magnets on the wheel you will get 2 pulses per revolution and so on. Total number of magnets on the wheel is equal to total number of pulses per revolution.


        His Acewell device does not use a Hall effect magnet mounted on the wheel. It has a device that screws into the stock speedo unit where the speedo cable plugs in which converts rotation into a signal to the device.

        Adrian's post says the cable turns twice per wheel rev so Blacqfox should enter 2:1 or 1:2. I forget which way it is in the instruction sheet, but it's all there.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2022, 06:35:21 pm by tooseevee »
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richard211

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Reply #26 on: June 23, 2022, 07:01:21 pm
        His Acewell device does not use a Hall effect magnet mounted on the wheel. It has a device that screws into the stock speedo unit where the speedo cable plugs in which converts rotation into a signal to the device.

        Adrian's post says the cable turns twice per wheel rev so Blacqfox should enter 2:1 or 1:2. I forget which way it is in the instruction sheet, but it's all there.

If the cable turns twice per revolution of the wheel then divide the circumference by 2.

 So a good base line to start is set the speed sensor pulse to 1 and circumference at 1016.


tooseevee

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Reply #27 on: June 23, 2022, 07:16:32 pm
If the cable turns twice per revolution of the wheel then divide the circumference by 2.

 So a good base line to start is set the speed sensor pulse to 1 and circumference at 1016.

         No. He has TWO settings to enter.

      (1)    He has to enter the circumference of his TIRE in
Mmillimeters.

       (2)    He has to enter the RATIO of the sender which is #5 under subject heading  Wheel Circumference Table on the instruction sheet. In his case it is 2:1.

       Blackfox knows this because he mentions it in his Post #20.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2022, 07:19:35 pm by tooseevee »
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richard211

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Reply #28 on: June 23, 2022, 07:35:32 pm
I was reading the manual and it does say to divide the circumference by the number of rotations of the cable per rotation of the wheel. So I suggested dividing the circumference 2033 by 2 it ends up being 1016.5

 If the pulse setting is set to 2 then the circumference can be set as 2033.

 Blacqfox says in Post# 19 he tried 2007 as the circumference and it felt like it was double the speed reading. 
« Last Edit: June 23, 2022, 07:55:42 pm by richard211 »


Adrian II

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Reply #29 on: June 23, 2022, 08:31:07 pm
Quote
I maybe wrong but i think the circumference on the 3.25 19 tyre is around 2033mm. You could use a GPS app on your phone to check the accuracy of the speedometer

From the Avon web site the 3.25 x 19" ribbed Speedmaster has a 2067mm circumference based on their stated diameter for this tire.

The AM26 works out at 2086mm.

A.

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