[denisj]

Hi All!
New to this group and long time Royal Enfield owner.
I have a repair shop in Sacramento, CA and a fellow Enfield owner brought in a beautiful Iron barrel 500 bike in with a badly damaged engine.
We are hoping to find a replacement engine that will help alleviate the cost of replacing the many parts that his engine needs to be back on the road.

Any chance one of you has a spare 500 engine in good condition you are willing to sell?

Thank you very much! You can email me directly if you like. I will check here as often as possible.

[AzCal Retred]

These engines are almost infinitely rebuildable, like a 350 Chevy. BUT - are labor intensive, so that's why the owner has to be the mechanic unless his name is Jay Leno. Exactly what kind of damage? If the crank's fragged, new stock cranks are available off of E-Bay, from Price Part, or Hitchcock's from $400 - $700. If the piston or con rod let go and trashed the cases, you are done unless you are willing to shell out maybe $2K - $4K to get back to where you were. If it's just the top end & barrel, new complete top ends (barrel/piston/rings) are about $500 - $600. A used head is $200 up, but even the valve seats are replaceable. Hitchcock's sell used rebuildable engines for roughly $1000 - $1200 USD plus shipping. Unless YOU have personally rebuilt the engine, it's a crap shoot; "30 Feet or 30 Seconds" is the general warrantee. MUCH depends on the break in, just like back in 1940.

If this guy's on a budget, he's out of luck, it'd be good to sell now for a parts bike & cut his losses. Better to buy a complete running machine out of Texas or Virginia for $1,500 - $3,000, drive & retrieve it and hope for the best. Best to just fix it. There's no cheap way out.

Unless this guy is a "mechanically sympathetic" rider, the process is doomed anyway. These Olde-Skool machines do not like abuse. "55 all day, 65 for awhile, 80 one time" is the rule of thumb for a stock engine. The fact that it was ridden hard enough to frag it maybe tells the story, usually the machine will let you know when it's in distress. Highway speeds when this wee beastie was designed were maybe 45-55, and the Indian metallurgy doesn't up the ante any.

A Hitchcock's $1,700 press-together, roller conrod crank is a good place to start if you need to make 35+ HP and intend to run the freeway. The stroker 103mm makes a nice tractor motor, either 570cc or 612cc with the 87mm piston(535cc engine with 90mm stroke). The labor is the same, another $1500 basically doubles the HP. THEN you can easily run with traffic, but you'll be then in the market for the disc-brake front end, 5-speed transmission and rear shock upgrades, plus of course a nice $150 high-speed rated tyre at each end. This old saw describes it well: "Speed costs money - how fast can you afford to go?"

[Adrian II]

Well, here's a start.

A used 500 iron barrel bottom end, the con-rod let go but amazingly it didn't appear to damage the crankcases, although you'd want to double-check that. All looks very low mileage so the crankshaft should be rebuildable too.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/203480883856?hash=item2f6067e290:g:pisAAOSwRFZh~XtI

A.

[AzCal Retred]

Here's a complete running machine for under $3K. Your old bike gives you 100% spares.
https://www.royalenfields.com/
https://fortcollins.craigslist.org/mcy/d/loveland-04-royal-enfield/7487721448.html
04 Royal Enfield - $2,800 (Loveland, Colorado)
2004 Royal Enfield Bullet Sixty 5, 6K miles, Retro Look, Runs Great, Good Tires, I have all parts to make it electric start. $2800, OBO,

[axman88]

I wish I had purchased a spare engine for both my UCE and my IB about 3 or 4 years ago, In those days I'd generally see a few available on Ebay for less than $500, essentially complete.

Since RE announced discontinuation of the UCE 500 it seems like the price on machines and engines has increased substantially and with the inception of the pandemic, supply got very tight. 

If I was determined to get an engine, I'd consider trying to work a deal with an India vendor.  A few India vendors selling on Ebay, have assured me that they could supply me with a 500 engine.  One was this vendor, who is offering some rebuilt 350 engines on the site:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/134067639960   I think I'd prefer to purchase a well worn engine and rebuild it myself, rather than spend extra for unknown quality.  It does admittedly seem a bit risky trying to make a deal this way, but India is where the spares are plentiful.  I think that if somebody took a trip over there with the intention of filling a container full of spares, they might make a very good return.

[Karl Childers]

Considering these posts if I have a an engine failure of that magnitude to warrant hard to find or prohibitively expensive cases or a complete motor I'll part out the bike and call it quits. As much as I LIKE my IB Enfield I don't love it enough to buy a second bike to keep it on the road.

 

[richard211]

I wish I had purchased a spare engine for both my UCE and my IB about 3 or 4 years ago, In those days I'd generally see a few available on Ebay for less than $500, essentially complete.

Since RE announced discontinuation of the UCE 500 it seems like the price on machines and engines has increased substantially and with the inception of the pandemic, supply got very tight. 

If I was determined to get an engine, I'd consider trying to work a deal with an India vendor.  A few India vendors selling on Ebay, have assured me that they could supply me with a 500 engine.  One was this vendor, who is offering some rebuilt 350 engines on the site:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/134067639960   I think I'd prefer to purchase a well worn engine and rebuild it myself, rather than spend extra for unknown quality.  It does admittedly seem a bit risky trying to make a deal this way, but India is where the spares are plentiful.  I think that if somebody took a trip over there with the intention of filling a container full of spares, they might make a very good return.

 In India used UCE 500 bullets are cheaper to buy than its ever been. A used 500 UCE bullet would cost around $1650 on average.
 
 There are no shortages of genuine parts either. In India there are some vendors say that to mislead people and increase their margins.

 The way it usually works for vendors, is that they have to place a minimum order of X amount and after which RE delivers those parts to the vendors. Suppose someone wants to buy a part which is not in the inventory of the vendors. What they will tell people is the part is not in stock there is a backlog. Then they will convince people to wait, but in reality they are trying get sufficient orders to place the next order of parts from RE and say it's a very difficult part to obtain but they managed to do it.

 
 

[Adrian II]

Here's a complete running machine for under $3K. Your old bike gives you 100% spares.
https://www.royalenfields.com/
https://fortcollins.craigslist.org/mcy/d/loveland-04-royal-enfield/7487721448.html
04 Royal Enfield - $2,800 (Loveland, Colorado)
2004 Royal Enfield Bullet Sixty 5, 6K miles, Retro Look, Runs Great, Good Tires, I have all parts to make it electric start. $2800, OBO,

Right-foot shift, too! 

A.

[AzCal Retred]

So what's the verdict? Keep or toss?

https://sacramento.craigslist.org/mpo/d/mount-aukum-crankshaft-rebuilding/7483741544.html
Motorcycle crankshaft rebuilding service. 45 years experience. Complete service including welding if needed or requested. All cranks trued to less than .001 runout. Prices start at $75.00.

https://fresno.craigslist.org/mpo/d/fresno-royal-enfield-bullet/7476001375.html
Royal Enfield Bullet - $5,500 (Fresno)
1964 Royal Enfield Bullet 350. Gears on right side and brake on left. Bend pipe, short bottle, all original. Runs and drives. New gas tank and tool boxes. Kick start. Needs some work to make perfect. All around good bike.
$5500 cash

[denisj]

These engines are almost infinitely rebuildable, like a 350 Chevy. BUT - are labor intensive, so that's why the owner has to be the mechanic unless his name is Jay Leno. Exactly what kind of damage? If the crank's fragged, new stock cranks are available off of E-Bay, from Price Part, or Hitchcock's from $400 - $700. If the piston or con rod let go and trashed the cases, you are done unless you are willing to shell out maybe $2K - $4K to get back to where you were. If it's just the top end & barrel, new complete top ends (barrel/piston/rings) are about $500 - $600. A used head is $200 up, but even the valve seats are replaceable. Hitchcock's sell used rebuildable engines for roughly $1000 - $1200 USD plus shipping. Unless YOU have personally rebuilt the engine, it's a crap shoot; "30 Feet or 30 Seconds" is the general warrantee. MUCH depends on the break in, just like back in 1940.

If this guy's on a budget, he's out of luck, it'd be good to sell now for a parts bike & cut his losses. Better to buy a complete running machine out of Texas or Virginia for $1,500 - $3,000, drive & retrieve it and hope for the best. Best to just fix it. There's no cheap way out.

Unless this guy is a "mechanically sympathetic" rider, the process is doomed anyway. These Olde-Skool machines do not like abuse. "55 all day, 65 for awhile, 80 one time" is the rule of thumb for a stock engine. The fact that it was ridden hard enough to frag it maybe tells the story, usually the machine will let you know when it's in distress. Highway speeds when this wee beastie was designed were maybe 45-55, and the Indian metallurgy doesn't up the ante any.

A Hitchcock's $1,700 press-together, roller conrod crank is a good place to start if you need to make 35+ HP and intend to run the freeway. The stroker 103mm makes a nice tractor motor, either 570cc or 612cc with the 87mm piston(535cc engine with 90mm stroke). The labor is the same, another $1500 basically doubles the HP. THEN you can easily run with traffic, but you'll be then in the market for the disc-brake front end, 5-speed transmission and rear shock upgrades, plus of course a nice $150 high-speed rated tyre at each end. This old saw describes it well: "Speed costs money - how fast can you afford to go?"

Thanks for all the detailed information.
I have already tapped all the usual suspects for parts and even a few that I never new existed here in the states
The issue I am running into that our friends at Hitchcocks confirmed are parts availability. It appears importing parts for teh Iron pre-unit engines are a thing of the past. There are and will be no more cranks in the near future. Being a fiend for finding parts I am sure till will reveal a new or new old stock unit floating around.

[denisj]

So what's the verdict? Keep or toss?

https://sacramento.craigslist.org/mpo/d/mount-aukum-crankshaft-rebuilding/7483741544.html
Motorcycle crankshaft rebuilding service. 45 years experience. Complete service including welding if needed or requested. All cranks trued to less than .001 runout. Prices start at $75.00.

https://fresno.craigslist.org/mpo/d/fresno-royal-enfield-bullet/7476001375.html
Royal Enfield Bullet - $5,500 (Fresno)
1964 Royal Enfield Bullet 350. Gears on right side and brake on left. Bend pipe, short bottle, all original. Runs and drives. New gas tank and tool boxes. Kick start. Needs some work to make perfect. All around good bike.
$5500 cash

Once again I appreciate the links. I will solidly avoid any crank work here locally.
Last month I was let down again after a local crankshaft shop that has "60 years of experience in Brit bike cranks" managed to do such a terrible job on the grind and radius for a 1950 Triumph crank that I had to go 1 more size under to correct it. They didn't charge me after I showed them my spec sheet that was in the box with the crankshaft. It was just about the worst work I have seen from a specialty shop.
 I have been burned too many times from crankshaft specialists here in Sacramento. I get the opportunity to rebuild lots of engines over the year and since I started it is almost without fail that a "Specialist" that has never had his hands on a Brit bike crank will likely make a detrimental mistake.
Regardless... This crank will require lots of welding repair to be brought back to spec for assembly. A new or replacement is really the only financially responsible option.

[Yinzer]

It appears importing parts for the Iron pre-unit engines are a thing of the past. There are and will be no more cranks in the near future.

Do you mean that they are discontinuing this English made performance crank?

https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/3280?ref_page=Bullet%20Export%20500cc

[AzCal Retred]

https://www.pricepartmotorcycles.co.uk/ourshop/cat_314445-Crankshaft-Bearings-Connecting-Rods.html
Price has needle bearing conrod cranks for 375 Pounds ($480), standard cranks for 275 Pounds ($370). Operators are standing by...

Exactly what are we doing here? Resurrecting to OEM spec? Building an improved machine? Piecing it barely back together? Are the crankcases intact? Cylinder fragged or bore-able? How's the cylinder head? What kind of facilities is the work being done in? Help us help you. Post some pictures.

IF the cases are intact and the flywheel halves are OK (TWO Big IFs...) just get a new rod and pin (roller bearing style or stock bushing, whatever pops your cork) from Price Part, slap it together and true it up. Bullet Whisperer has many tech videos on this subject, and the Indians seem to get "functional" results just rolling the assembly across a plate of glass or smooth concrete floor. New main bearings are always wise after shavings have circulated. Some crank end seals, a gasket and a tube of Moto Seal and you are in 'bidness'. E-Bay has this stuff too, but usually a month out and it's always a crap shoot. I have been lucky so far. Personally I'd get the roller crank unit from Price Part, I know it wasn't assembled on a concrete floor in Mumbai.

As far as H's not having IB Bullet crankshaft parts, that's a temporary supply chain issue for them. The do have the performance "Accessory" bits in stock: https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/11398?ref_page=Bullet%20Export%20500cc
PART No. 90125A ; CON ROD WITH FITTED ROLLER BIGEND (RE13), FORGED STEEL ; £545.00
But the Price Part option will get you back on the road for less out-of-pocket.

Have your boy open up the checkbook and drop Price Part an e-mail. Prices are on the website.

[AzCal Retred]

Yinzer - both the performance cranks are available. There's a supply chain issue. Some of H's OEM stuff is on the back burner, the high dollar bits are still there. Price Part has the OEM covered. That 612 crank will still show up at your door about $1,800 later...

[Yinzer]

Yinzer - both the performance cranks are available.

That's a relief. 
I intend to rebuild dad's engine next winter so I don't have to worry about it fragging.
Tentatively, I'm going to stay totally stock at 500cc & 6.5/1 compression but use all the best parts.

Neither him or I run the thing over 45 mph on these back roads now.
The carb is a bit rich and the timing is conservatively set. It has never pinged once and the head seems to be staying cool.

That reminds me. I was taking an IR gun temp early on and I got some scary numbers off the head.
After re-jetting, they are under 300F now.
What is your experience on temps?