[riedlj]

Hi everyone.  I'm new to the forum and have only had my Himalayan for a couple of days.  Today on my lunch i was riding some back roads and hit some trails.  The trails were very slow going and I really didn't go very fast.  When i headed out on the road and got up to speed again the bike quit on me and the battery light went on as well as the check engine light.  The Battery was not charged enough to start the engine and was basically dead.

I have only had the bike for a couple days and bought it in a private sale.  The previous owner was an older guy and always left it plugged into battery tender.  I did not for the past couple of days because I usually ride it a couple of miles every day to work.  So i went in to look at the battery and it appears to be the original battery (2020 model).  I have since charged the original battery to basically full and it still wont start, battery light on.

I have been trying to find a replacement battery that will work, but i am not sure if that is even the issue.  It seems like it must be as I even checked the charging fuse under the seat and that is fine.  The bike had its scheduled maintenance at 450 miles and now has 550 miles on it.

Any suggestions?  Thanks in advance.

[axman88]

Copied word for word from a very helpful and wise rider in another forum, ... Swifty, .....

If you put a voltmeter across the battery and watch for these approximate voltages, it will tell you so much about the systems operation. Battery, Starter and Charging.
At rest the battery voltage should be about 12.5 + volts.
Then while cranking look for more than 9.5 + volts. Above 10 volts is better.
Then running and revved up to 3000 to 5000 RPM look for 13.5 to 14.5 volts.
That will tell the basics of the health of the system.

Based on what you described, my first suspect would be a loose or broken battery or ground connection.

Once you start poking around with a voltmeter, you can get and share some real clues.  Measure and post the:
1)  Voltage across the battery
2)  Voltage from battery + to bike chassis ground point.

[riedlj]

Thanks axman.  I'll try and get a voltmeter on it today.  I bought i replacement battery at Advance Auto yesterday and it wasn't charged at all.  I put it on my Battery Tender/Charger over night and it still isn't charged.  I think I'm taking it back today for a charged one.  I also ordered a Lithium Ion battery from Revzilla. 

[Richard230]

It has been my experience over the past couple of years that some motorcycle battery retailers are not maintaining their new batteries correctly, especially if they do not sell their inventory as quickly as they used to because many motorcycle riders are not riding as much as they used to due to Covid restrictions. They just keep the batteries around for several years and if they are flooded (and not dry activated) or AGM types, and have not been recharged every six months or so (and you know they are not, since who wants to buy a new battery in a box that has been opened), they can be damaged and might no longer accept a charge or hold one for very long.

Recently I have bought two 9Ah batteries, both of which would not hold a charge for more than a couple of days before going flat. I have even had that problem with a car battery that I bought from my local O'Reilly Auto Parts store. That battery was flooded and sealed and pretty dusty when I bought it. Now I have to keep it on a battery maintainer to keep the voltage above 12.3V if it sits around for more than there days without my car being driven.   

[riedlj]

Yeah, I think that's what is going on here.  I took it in this morning and the clerk put it on his diagnostic tool which said it was basically ok.  It had been on my Battery Tender all night it still wasn't charged.  He then put one off the shelf on his tender and it was basically dead.  He offered to put it on his charger for me until it was charged so i took him up on the offer.  I picked it up on my lunch and my tender shows it as fully charged. 

Now if it will stop raining, I can put it in the bike and see what happens.

[axman88]

It has been my experience over the past couple of years that some motorcycle battery retailers are not maintaining their new batteries correctly, especially if they do not sell their inventory as quickly as they used to because many motorcycle riders are not riding as much as they used to due to Covid restrictions. They just keep the batteries around for several years and if they are flooded (and not dry activated) or AGM types, and have not been recharged every six months or so (and you know they are not, since who wants to buy a new battery in a box that has been opened), they can be damaged and might no longer accept a charge or hold one for very long.

I miss the days when chargers were dumb but mechanics and guys that worked in the auto parts store were smart.

I have bought my last few batteries from online sources, dry, added my own electrolyte, and had great satisfaction.  Anybody who thinks it's a good idea to put lead acid technology on a shelf for months, hasn't read the fine print.  AGMs have superior shelf life to wet cells, but they need to be stored in a cool place, and kept charged or they will turn into bricks.   Capacity is reduced over time, regardless of how well you treat them, it just happens faster with neglect.

[riedlj]

Hey axman.  I have a follow up question from your first post.  What am i measuring when i test the battery to chassis?  Do I test the positive node and place the negative meter post on the chassis?

[axman88]

Hey axman.  I have a follow up question from your first post.  What am i measuring when i test the battery to chassis?  Do I test the positive node and place the negative meter post on the chassis?

Yes, Battery positive terminal RED, Chassis BLACK.   If the battery has shown healthy voltage in the previous test, this test will confirm that some sort of ground connection is present.

If these both check out, you can proceed with further tests to isolate the problem, such as Swifty's quick check I listed.

Do the bike's lights come on when the ignition switch is turned?  Does your starter motor operate when the start button is pushed? 

There's lots of info. online, some quite basic, while other sources assume the reader has knowledge of electrical principles.  Where are you at in your understanding of electrics?  Does the information at this site make sense?  https://www.aberdeenbikers.co.uk/motorcycle-charging-system-diagnosis-checks/

[riedlj]

Well, ok.  I can already answer some of the questions here.  The battery is not completely dead and powers on the lights and dash.  The FI works when the kill switch is turned on.  The bike turns over, but not well, and wont start the engine.  This seems like typical drained battery behavior in my book, but would it cause the bike to shut down while running?

My speculation is that the draw on the system was greater than the battery plus stator could produce and the FI couldn't keep going etc. thus the failure.  But as you said, It will be useful to at least look at the voltages. 

When i test the ground what am i looking for on the volt meter?

[riedlj]

Ok.  Update:  Checked the old battery and it read 13V no load, but dipped way down to 7V when I turned the engine over.  I figured this might be the problem.  The new battery went in and only showed 12.2v.  Turn on key and ignition and it moves down to 11.8 or 11.7v.  Turning the engine over it reads 10.5 or so.  This all seems normal, but engine does not fire and start. IDK where to go from here.  Have only ridden the bike about 20 miles since i bought it.   

[axman88]

Ok.  Update:  Checked the old battery and it read 13V no load, but dipped way down to 7V when I turned the engine over.  I figured this might be the problem.  The new battery went in and only showed 12.2v.  Turn on key and ignition and it moves down to 11.8 or 11.7v.  Turning the engine over it reads 10.5 or so.  This all seems normal, but engine does not fire and start. IDK where to go from here.  Have only ridden the bike about 20 miles since i bought it.   

Sounds like you need a charge on that new battery.  12.2 V means it is only about half charged.  With the starter motor drawing power, system voltage gets pulled down, perhaps far enough that the ECU decides not to play.   I believe there is a lower supply voltage limit, below which the ECU will not function, which means no fuel injection, and no spark.

When you said "the FI works when the kill switch is on", did you mean that you heard the fuel pump operate, or did you somehow verify that fuel was actually being injected?

The old battery sounds like it's capacity has been reduced to the point where it's worthless.

Getting a full charge into the new battery is important.  Generally a new battery requires charging before it's used.  If all you have is a trickle charger, it will do the job, but it could take days.  Charging at 1/10  to no more than 1/5 the ampere hour rating is best for lead acid batteries.  A trickle charger might be putting out a fraction of the allowable charge rate.

The engine quitting while riding may be another issue entirely, or perhaps your charging system isn't working, and the old battery, charged up by the previous owner, got you as far as it could.  You'll have to get the machine running to test the charging system.

When I'm working on a bike that I think might require a lot of cranking, I remove the bike's battery and substitute a full sized auto battery sitting next to the bike with heavy cables terminated in lugs that I can bolt onto the bikes battery cables.  That way I can crank and run the headlight and other bike systems for as long as needed to figure out the problem, without running down the tiny motorcycle battery.  To prevent accidents, the lugs where the bolted connection is made are insulated by rubber sleeves made from bicycle inner tubes.

[GSS]

How about jump starting from a good 12 volt car battery?  That will put to rest all questions about whether the problem is primarily the battery or something else. Thanks.

[riedlj]

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions.  The battery I tested in the bike is the one i just bought from Advance Auto Parts that was DOA when I brought it home and then they charged and said it was ok.  I was doubtful that it was ok, but where i live there aren't a lot of options for batteries other than the internet.  Today, if it ever stops raining, I will go give it a zap from my bronco's battery and see if that puts some life into it.

The original battery reads higher initial voltage but drops way down under load to like 7.5v.

The previous owner had installed a voltmeter/usb plug and i clearly remember seeing it read 14 volts while i was riding, the day before it quit. 

If this turns out to be something more than just a battery what are my chances of the dealership doing anything about it?  This bike has 550 miles on it and was serviced according to the warranty a little over a hundred miles ago.

[Richard230]

I have had several new motorcycle batteries over the years that developed an internal connection problem after a short time. They would show a full charge on a battery maintainer or voltmeter, but would fail once a load was applied. This first occurred a long time ago with a Yusa battery. A group of these batteries were said to have an internal connection fault that was caused by a manufacturing defect at the factory. That problem was eventually resolved by Yusa, but it took them a while to fix the issue.

Then I had two BMW-brand AGM Exide batteries suddenly fail while I was riding, bringing me to a halt. One after only 6 months and the other after 24 months. While my bikes would start with a jump start, they would not stay running once the jumper cables were removed. Both batteries were replaced with new ones by BMW under their 24-month warranty.

Then last year I had two batteries fail to hold a charge for more than a couple of days. Both were installed in my 2020 KTM Duke 390. The first was the original Indian-made Exide-brand AGM battery that came with the bike and the next one was an internet-special AGM battery that had the same problem. I believe that both batteries had sat around too long without being charged before being sold. I thought there was a problem with my bike's charging system, but the next battery that I bought from a new battery seller via Amazon, came with a 13.1V charge and has worked perfectly since I installed it 9 months ago. 

[riedlj]

Soooo.  I tried hooking it up to the Bronco via jumper cables.  We definitely had a good connection because the engine turned over, but I wasn't getting any spark.  I put a new plug in yesterday, so now I'm not sure where to go with this thing. I checked all the fuses. I hope the dealer will be able to fix it.  What a nightmare.

[axman88]

Soooo.  I tried hooking it up to the Bronco via jumper cables.  We definitely had a good connection because the engine turned over, but I wasn't getting any spark.  I put a new plug in yesterday, so now I'm not sure where to go with this thing. I checked all the fuses. I hope the dealer will be able to fix it.  What a nightmare.

I'm not a new bike guy, or a "take it to the dealer" guy, so I can't speak to that path, but from what I've read here on the forum, I'd be leery of doing it.   At least where I live, riding motos is seasonal, and this time of year, mechanics are overloaded with work.  A mystery issue could take months, and could cost a lot in "try this, try that" swapped in parts, not to mention the labor.

No spark condition can be as simple as a broken spark plug wire.  Connection failure or a fried resistor inside the spark plug cap is quite common.  A DMM with an ohmmeter function will pay for itself in the first 30 minutes of dealer service that you avoid.  The Harbor Freight is cheap junk, but, good enough to fix simple problems.  I think this Kelvin is quite a bit better, and just as cheap:  https://kelvin.com/kelvin-50le-multimeter-with-buzzer/     I own a few meters, and I'm really happy with the UNI-T UT210D that I purchased a few years ago, specifically for moto servicing.  This can do everything, including measuring temperature with an included thermocouple and a clamp meter that can measure DC current up to 200A, for checking starter circuits.  This does everything I need, accurately and intuitively,and its still a fraction of the cost of the big name brands like Fluke.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/284123373776

Watch out for cheaper clamp meters that only measure AC current.  That's fine for working around the house, but not so useful for vehicles.

I'd be searching out and downloading the service manual, printing out the schematic and going through the harness verifying power and function.  Disconnecting and reconnecting a loose connector has fixed many bikes, with no cost and great satisfaction.  I'd search this forum for the process to pull the MIL codes, to see if that gave me any clues.

[riedlj]

Good advice axman.  I don't really have the technical knowledge to search out electrical problems.  I'd like to do it if I had the knowledge and time, but I'm afraid it would just be sitting most of the time.  I'm not sure what I'm looking for poking around in there anyway. 

I did notice however that yesterday when I had the wiring around the battery out there is a bunch of stuff attached.  I had the key in and the ignition on and when i moved something it made the fuel pump prime again randomly.  Not sure what it was.  Might be a loose connection sonewhere??

I'm going to see if the dealer can get it in next week and what their schedule is like.  Its 100 miles to get there.  I hope this experience with the bike isn't common, but I'm thinking it might have been a bad purchase.  This is the first motorcycle I've had in my entire life that has left me stranded and died with 500 miles on it.  I may be looking to get rid of it soon.

[Guldner]

Ev’nin

Pull the relays out from under the seat and clean the grease off them….a duff contact there….very prone…will not allow a spark/ kill the engine.

The engine will crank and not fire + the fuel pump will pressure up.

Hope this helps

G

[riedlj]

Thanks Guldner,

I did see that might be an issue, so I've already done that.  There are two relays I can find under the seat and then one more on the side of the battery.  I've pulled everything and wiped off the excess grease.  I even pulled the gas tank yester day to visually inspect the connections and unplug and then replug everything without success.  I also pulled the spark plug and fired the engine with it on the head, and I got no spark.  So i assume there is a faulty part in there that needs to be replaced.

[jadofind]

For what it's worth, my 2021 Himalayan had an intermittent "dying at speed" issue not related to the battery. The dealership traced it to an intermittent connection because a contact was not fully inserted into a connector that cut the ignition like extending the sidestand when in gear. I can't swear that their story was accurate, but the problem did not recur. While it was covered by warranty, I did have to make two trips to the dealer (about a three hour trip one way). Disconnecting, inspecting and reconnecting the wiring harness connectors may we worthwhile, just take your time and be gentle - no sense in breaking a plastic locking tab.

[axman88]

For what it's worth, my 2021 Himalayan had an intermittent "dying at speed" issue not related to the battery. The dealership traced it to an intermittent connection because a contact was not fully inserted into a connector that cut the ignition like extending the sidestand when in gear. I can't swear that their story was accurate, but the problem did not recur. While it was covered by warranty, I did have to make two trips to the dealer (about a three hour trip one way). Disconnecting, inspecting and reconnecting the wiring harness connectors may we worthwhile, just take your time and be gentle - no sense in breaking a plastic locking tab.

Glad to hear that you got satisfaction from your dealer and are back up and riding.

Your advice about the connectors is good.  I've spent a good amount of my time fixing things, professionally and for my own amusement, and it would surprise people who haven't experienced it, how often electrical devices can be "fixed" with a little attention to the wiring connections.  I had a lot of fun, and earned a good bit of money doing what probably looked like miraculous repairs of various customer's appliances.  I'd call this process "the laying of hands".

Appliance repair guys can make a lot more money, because they will do this, then tell the customer it was an expensive PC board or sensor or motor that was faulty, then sell the perfectly good takeout part on Ebay, a perfect triple dip.

RE doesn't use the worst connectors on their machines, but they are pretty far from the top of the line too.