Author Topic: Fuel AND ignition maps for sale ?  (Read 215 times)

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Racer57

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on: November 22, 2022, 06:58:23 pm

Going to buy an 2022 Interceptor. Planning on Dealer installing S&S cam, air filter, muffler and wanting the hi comp pistons. But even though S&S recommends Power Commander they don't have a map. Dealer contacted "Hitchcock and they dont either with the unit they sell. There isn't any dyno available in my area and its stupid to  install hi comp pistons without adjusting timing/ignition.  Is there anyone that does sell a map ?


AzCal Retred

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Reply #1 on: November 26, 2022, 04:12:38 am
The factory RE 650 twin makes 45 HP. The 650 Kawasaki 650 Ninja twin makes about 70 HP. The splendid YZF600/4 makes 100 HP. You can buy a functional, used Ninja of various displacements or YZF600 for about $3K. It's highly unlikely you'll get a 60%-100% HP boost out of a cam and HP pistons. What exactly is the point of spending $6K for a new machine and another $3K for speed parts & labor to end up with something not as fast as a $3K used 650 Ninja or YZF600? Besides - isn't the point of a new bike that it has a warrantyWhat happens to that with aftermarket cams, exhaust, pistons, and ECU go-fast reflashing?

The 6 speed 45 HP Interceptor twin is a brilliant piece of kit as is. Competent, flexible power, comfortable, multi-functional. If you had a thrashed $1,500 one and were going to play with it, adding $2K worth of speed doodads yourself in your garage would start to make more sense. Buying a new one and throwing 50% of the purchase price more into it....blowing up the warrantee you just paid for...now you are into Supersport and Ducati money but without the power and with more weight and no safety net.

A well ridden Interceptor with good shocks, good tires and maybe a fork kit will embarrass lots of riders on better equipment in the twisties. Even painfully stock they are very good. If you want lots more power, that's easier & cheaper to come by elsewhere. But if you want a very nice general purpose motorcycle, a new Interceptor is already there.
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Racer57

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Reply #2 on: November 26, 2022, 02:37:13 pm
Your argument against engine upgrades can very easily be used against handling upgrades. I'm wanting to upgrade the engine because I want too and can. :D
The factory RE 650 twin makes 45 HP. The 650 Kawasaki 650 Ninja twin makes about 70 HP. The splendid YZF600/4 makes 100 HP. You can buy a functional, used Ninja of various displacements or YZF600 for about $3K. It's highly unlikely you'll get a 60%-100% HP boost out of a cam and HP pistons. What exactly is the point of spending $6K for a new machine and another $3K for speed parts & labor to end up with something not as fast as a $3K used 650 Ninja or YZF600? Besides - isn't the point of a new bike that it has a warrantyWhat happens to that with aftermarket cams, exhaust, pistons, and ECU go-fast reflashing?

The 6 speed 45 HP Interceptor twin is a brilliant piece of kit as is. Competent, flexible power, comfortable, multi-functional. If you had a thrashed $1,500 one and were going to play with it, adding $2K worth of speed doodads yourself in your garage would start to make more sense. Buying a new one and throwing 50% of the purchase price more into it....blowing up the warrantee you just paid for...now you are into Supersport and Ducati money but without the power and with more weight and no safety net.

A well ridden Interceptor with good shocks, good tires and maybe a fork kit will embarrass lots of riders on better equipment in the twisties. Even painfully stock they are very good. If you want lots more power, that's easier & cheaper to come by elsewhere. But if you want a very nice general purpose motorcycle, a new Interceptor is already there.


AzCal Retred

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Reply #3 on: November 27, 2022, 09:09:43 am
" Even painfully stock they are very good. "
"Better" shocks are maybe $150, IF you even need them. Fork oil is likely $10 a pint or just use ATF. Cams & pistons cost real money and don't bolt on in 15 minutes. Handling upgrades in my experience generally mean you don't fall off quite as often. Better tires are just SOP if you plan on generating real speed. Grippier brake pucks & shoes are cheap insurance. From what I've seen in my racing days, maybe 5% of riders are actually able to push decent stock hardware to it's limits in other than in a straight line. The race track tells the real story, the street is a very random environment.

If money isn't a criteria, why not bolt on the 865 kit, get some real parallel twin grunt? You'll be tuning the ECU anyway.
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Racer57

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Reply #4 on: November 30, 2022, 03:02:36 am
" Even painfully stock they are very good. "
"Better" shocks are maybe $150, IF you even need them. Fork oil is likely $10 a pint or just use ATF. Cams & pistons cost real money and don't bolt on in 15 minutes. Handling upgrades in my experience generally mean you don't fall off quite as often. Better tires are just SOP if you plan on generating real speed. Grippier brake pucks & shoes are cheap insurance. From what I've seen in my racing days, maybe 5% of riders are actually able to push decent stock hardware to it's limits in other than in a straight line. The race track tells the real story, the street is a very random environment.

If money isn't a criteria, why not bolt on the 865 kit, get some real parallel twin grunt? You'll be tuning the ECU anyway.
I'd love to get the 865. But read my original post.


AzCal Retred

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Reply #5 on: November 30, 2022, 05:09:04 am
Planning on Dealer installing S&S cam, air filter, muffler and wanting the hi comp pistons.
I'm wanting to upgrade the engine because I want too and can.
Dealer contacted Hitchcock and they don't either with the unit they sell.


The Power Commander has been used by many here, there's lots of "tribal knowledge" available. Looks like the dealer you have anticipated doing the mechanical work can't/won't do the tuning part? So you are in the position of becoming the tuner. Is this a deal breaker? Installing new pistons & cams is all the same work as bolting on the 865 top end. Using the Power Commander to tune the system for the new speed parts looks to be an owner task, but others have done it successfully.

So if you are searching for performance, can afford the package and are willing to learn the Power Commander, Hitchcock's say clearly they have a "suitable base map". The big bore kit yields about 65 HP vs the 40-45 or so of a stock engine, pretty much starting from the bottom of the rev range. You are paying the dealer for all the work necessary already, it's just $2K more in parts and you'll have all there is to get. In any event it looks like you'll have to do the Power Commander yourself.

https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/44214?cont_page=accessory-shop/cylinder
PART No. 90104; BIGBORE KIT 865cc to convert 650 Interceptor + 650 Continental GT. Supplied with ready machined cylinder barrels; £1,675.00
BIGBORE KIT 865cc to convert 650 Interceptor + 650 Continental GT. Supplied with ready machined cylinder barrels
This is the bigbore conversion by S&S Cycle ready fitted in to a set of cylinder. It converts the 650cc twins to 865cc by taking the standard 78mm bore to 90mm whilst raising the compression ration from 9.5:1 to 11:1
This is a bolt on set of machined cylinder barrels with matched pistons ready to fit.
A great improvement to both torque and horsepower
Before fitting the bigbore kit you should look at replacing the front exhaust pipes and silencers for a less restrictive version.
With fitment of this kit, the fuelling will need to be controlled, we recommend the use of a Dynojet Power Commander for which we can supply a suitable base map.
To maximise the benefit of the bigbore kit you need to consider the following:
Clutch upgrade
Performance Camshaft
Free flow exhaust system

Air Filter Retainer
We would also recommend replacing the 8 cylinder head bolts, part number 575620.
 






A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


axman88

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Reply #6 on: November 30, 2022, 08:23:49 pm
My brother created his own map for the Power Commander V that came with his 2nd hand Kawa. Vulcan 1500.   He did that because the bike had come with a map that was so rich that the exhaust stank of raw gas.  That map had been professionally created at considerable expense ( he got the receipts with the bike), on a dynomometer, at a local speed shop.

I don't have one of these gadgets myself, but I did download Dynojet's free software, played with it, and thought it was pretty straightforward.  My understanding is that, if one puts the baseline value into every block ( either one or zero, I don't recall which), one would then be riding with un-tweaked, RE factory ECM settings, and could proceed to modify parameter values as they saw fit.  Seems like starting with factory values should be a safe, if unspectacular, starting point.

My brother created his map by trial and error, over a period of weeks, taking note of performance, rideability and fuel economy.  Starting with the existing map, and consulting a generic free base map, he progressively leaned out blocks on the map until he felt responsiveness suffer.  He also said that as he tracked fuel economy, he initially made large improvements, but then noticed diminished returns as he got closer to the sweet spot.  He was MUCH happier, in every way, with what he made, than what the previous owner had paid a pro. tuner to create, and said that both rideability and fuel economy were substantially improved.

I understand that some folks have created or modified their PC maps using feedback from a wideband 02 sensor kit.  https://www.summitracing.com/parts/avm-30-4110

Or, perhaps the Autotune add-on?:  https://www.dynojet.com/autotune/