Author Topic: adding lightness  (Read 2439 times)

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him a layin

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on: July 30, 2022, 10:13:48 pm
this is all speculative since i've ridden the bike very little so far, but it seems overly tall and overly heavy to me. so at some point in the future i may decide to "fix" these issues. tall can be addressed with lowering links and fork adjustment, heavy can be addressed by replacing heavy components with lighter ones (muffler?LI battery?) or even omitting them altogether. i'm looking at you, tank guard bars, and you too, extra front fender, and maybe even you, handlebar weights. also maybe "tidying up" the tail, a la scram.

i expect you more experienced folks have opinions about all of this so please, do share. no hurry, take your time. and yes, i know, cut back on dessert. fat chance.



AzCal Retred

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Reply #1 on: July 31, 2022, 01:43:36 am
Lightness (combined with HP...) is the forte of the high end $$$ folks like KTM & Husqvarna. The Himalayan is very competent within its operating range. The low end buy in provides you with good geometry, compliant suspension and mild traction promoting power and decent gear ratios. It also comes with a mild steel frame and manufacturing choices biased towards strength thru extra mass instead of exotic materials like tempered chromoly and carbon fiber.

Rider thinks the 31.5"seat height is fairly low for these types of bikes. The "tank guards" are actually carrier racks.
https://ridermagazine.com/2021/11/10/2022-royal-enfield-himalayan-first-ride-review/

Myself I'd keep it stock, maybe take off the bits you won't use and put them in a box. Ride it, maintain it, learn its quirks, appreciate what it does well. New high quality tires is about all the modding it needs, after the stock rubber wears down a bit. Chasing lightness is pointless when starting with low end hardware. R.E. did a great job with the Himalayan, especially for the price point. You can spend a lot of time & treasure and not get close to the high dollar boys; they started with a lot more base budget and retail for about 3x the price.


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him a layin

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Reply #2 on: July 31, 2022, 01:46:21 pm
"take off the bits you won't use and put them in a box."

good, good. anyone else?


jadofind

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Reply #3 on: July 31, 2022, 07:50:17 pm
A perception of excess weight suggests that you arrived at a Himalayan from a different route than I did. My previous mount was a V-Strom 650, which was bordering on worrisome weight if more than 5-10 degrees off vertical at a stop. The Himalayan is wonderfully light and short by comparison. I did notice when replacing a few broken and bent spokes on the rear wheel, that its weight surprised me. I haven't detached the front wheel, but wouldn't be surprised if it was also a bit on the heavy side. Finding and installing suitable aluminum rims might be one way to lighten up the bike a bit. However, it was only noticeable when I had the wheel off (like the roof that only leaks when it rains).
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him a layin

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Reply #4 on: August 09, 2022, 04:51:47 am
check the rims, check.


oldphart

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Reply #5 on: August 09, 2022, 08:34:24 am
The stock wheels are stupidly heavy as I discovered recently when changing the tyres. Get some tubeless wheels while you're at it.
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Morgan65

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Reply #6 on: August 29, 2022, 05:30:16 pm
this is all speculative since i've ridden the bike very little so far, but it seems overly tall and overly heavy to me. so at some point in the future i may decide to "fix" these issues. tall can be addressed with lowering links and fork adjustment, heavy can be addressed by replacing heavy components with lighter ones (muffler?LI battery?) or even omitting them altogether. i'm looking at you, tank guard bars, and you too, extra front fender, and maybe even you, handlebar weights. also maybe "tidying up" the tail, a la scram.

i expect you more experienced folks have opinions about all of this so please, do share. no hurry, take your time. and yes, i know, cut back on dessert. fat chance.

I was thinking of doing just that two years ago if I could find a Himmy that I can pick up cheap.  Maybe one that had been crashed.   

I think now it’ll be best to just trade it in on the new 412 Sram.
REs I currently own:
2007 AVL Bullet Electra Gray
2010 Bullet G5 Deluxe Black
2017 535 GT Continental Red
2018 Himalayan White
2018 Pegasus Green
2019 650 Continental GT Ice Queen or white
2020 Trials 500 Green and Chrome


him a layin

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Reply #7 on: August 30, 2022, 11:23:34 am
I think now it’ll be best to just trade it in on the new 412 Sram.
likely the easiest way to get there if that's where you want to go.

right now my battery has died from sitting for 3 weeks. charger failed o save it. i've got family business to attend to in florida, so it may just continue to sit for the next month or so. obviously a battery cutoff is in my future, but there's not much room under there. maybe on the left, glued to the back of the side cover?
focus, man, focus!



BJMS

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Reply #8 on: August 30, 2022, 11:54:14 am
this is all speculative since i've ridden the bike very little so far, but it seems overly tall and overly heavy to me. so at some point in the future i may decide to "fix" these issues. tall can be addressed with lowering links and fork adjustment, heavy can be addressed by replacing heavy components with lighter ones (muffler?LI battery?) or even omitting them altogether. i'm looking at you, tank guard bars, and you too, extra front fender, and maybe even you, handlebar weights. also maybe "tidying up" the tail, a la scram.

i expect you more experienced folks have opinions about all of this so please, do share. no hurry, take your time. and yes, i know, cut back on dessert. fat chance.

Sounds like you should swap it for a Scram.
Lower, (a little bit) lighter, no extra front fender, no tank bars, no rear rack etc.


him a layin

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Reply #9 on: August 30, 2022, 01:52:35 pm
Sounds like you should swap it for a Scram.
Lower, (a little bit) lighter, no extra front fender, no tank bars, no rear rack etc.
maybe so.


zefnerd

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Reply #10 on: August 30, 2022, 11:01:21 pm
Sounds like you should swap it for a Scram.
Lower, (a little bit) lighter, no extra front fender, no tank bars, no rear rack etc.
The front screen was dropped, front wheel reduced to 19", and probably the biggest weight saver, dropped the inclusion of a centerstand. They dropped about 10 kilo.


him a layin

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Reply #11 on: August 31, 2022, 10:23:44 am
The front screen was dropped, front wheel reduced to 19", and probably the biggest weight saver, dropped the inclusion of a centerstand. They dropped about 10 kilo.
don't know that i'd want to ditch the center stand.


him a layin

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Reply #12 on: September 13, 2022, 03:23:09 pm
cobbled up a battery cutoff for when thing settle enough to pursue this again


him a layin

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Reply #13 on: October 19, 2022, 01:16:38 pm
connected my home-brew battery cutoff and it seems to work.
and an aside: momentarily swapped the battery terminals by accident, key in pocket, and heard what i think was the fuel pump running. interesting wiring on this beast.


mitch49

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Reply #14 on: November 10, 2022, 02:25:25 pm
Get some tubeless wheels while you're at it.

New guy here with a question. Will the alloy wheels from the  Meteor fit the Scram? I'm concerned about brake caliper placement.They are tubless... Would the alloy rims from the 650 work? This would get rid of the caliper problem but would it cause a problem with the different size rims and the speedo and ABS?? I guess you wold need need new spokes also..
tnx
mitch
I'm doing so good I can't stand it!!


AzCal Retred

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Reply #15 on: November 11, 2022, 12:29:39 am
There are tubeless tire "rim tape" tubeless kits that get good reviews in the 650 section. Look over there and see if they appeal.

Usually a tube of "Slime" in a new tube will prevent the great majority of flats from happening. Going to cast wheels is an unnecessary practical expense, with "Slimed" tubes you'll likely never have a flat anyway. The 350 Meteor comes with cast alloy rims, is a better road bike, and the upcoming Hitchcock's Meteor big bore kit will take up any power slack and then some.

Again, lightness requires pricy materials and manufacturing processes. The $4500-ish 411 Himalayan is a great bike for the price, but the KTM, Husqvarna, et al will always be lighter and have more HP. That said, for everyday use and moderate trail bashing the Himi is a great choice. It's likely cheaper to pick up an old Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha or Kawasaki purpose built off road machine if you are seriously interested in off road performance.
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him a layin

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Reply #16 on: November 11, 2022, 01:44:21 am
finally got off my lazy butt and got my MC permit. rainy until saturday, so will start exploring the local dirt roads then. once i get a feel for the bike i'll think about mods/deletions.


him a layin

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Reply #17 on: November 15, 2022, 03:25:44 pm
took it out for a run, it died about a mile and a half out, obviously some sort of electrical problem. neighbor helped me get it home. battery below 12v. replaced both 5-pin relays, no improvement. weather is inclement, so not much diagnostics for the next couple of days.


him a layin

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Reply #18 on: November 19, 2022, 12:00:36 am
this might be part of my problem,#1, charging fuse. also ordered the add-on battery drain harness from hitchcock's
« Last Edit: November 19, 2022, 12:03:10 am by him a layin »


him a layin

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Reply #19 on: November 21, 2022, 10:58:02 pm
it cranks! it starts! it runs... fitfully. like me, it doesn't like going out when it's cold. i may try to adjust the idle.

i feel like an idiot. after looking over the wiring diagram for hours i noticed the starter solenoid is wired to the clutch switch, and voila! squeeze the clutch lever, fires right up. i still suspect there's an issue with the gear position sensor, it says "-" instead of "0".

tomorrow i'll fire it up and let it idle for a while, see if it drains the battery. worst case, i won't have to push it home.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2022, 11:34:18 pm by him a layin »


Spicyred

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Reply #20 on: November 22, 2022, 11:20:29 pm
it cranks! it starts! it runs... fitfully. like me, it doesn't like going out when it's cold. i may try to adjust the idle.

i feel like an idiot. after looking over the wiring diagram for hours i noticed the starter solenoid is wired to the clutch switch, and voila! squeeze the clutch lever, fires right up. i still suspect there's an issue with the gear position sensor, it says "-" instead of "0".

tomorrow i'll fire it up and let it idle for a while, see if it drains the battery. worst case, i won't have to push it home.

Does it do that all the time?
Mine has done it a couple times. No big deal - just knock the lever back into second gear and down to neutral again to get the “0”.

If I haven’t ridden for a couple of weeks, I’ll lift the seat and plug a battery charger to the terminals for a couple hours. Works fine on my 18 month old battery.
Note that we don’t have the freezing temperatures around here. Perhaps 6 or 8 C.

Anyway, off for a ride and shall have passed the 10,000 kilometre mark by afternoon.
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2019 Ice Queen GT650
2021 Himalayan


him a layin

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Reply #21 on: November 23, 2022, 03:30:41 am
Does it do that all the time?
Mine has done it a couple times. No big deal - just knock the lever back into second gear and down to neutral again to get the “0”.

If I haven’t ridden for a couple of weeks, I’ll lift the seat and plug a battery charger to the terminals for a couple hours. Works fine on my 18 month old battery.
Note that we don’t have the freezing temperatures around here. Perhaps 6 or 8 C.

Anyway, off for a ride and shall have passed the 10,000 kilometre mark by afternoon.
re the gearbox, i haven't ridden it enough to know. i've had both 1-down/4-up (like the himmy) and all-up bikes so i know there's a period of getting accustomed to it.
 
i'm hoping to get it out tomorrow and put some local miles on it. it idles well once it gets up to operating temp. i let it run 20 minutes today on the center stand so am confident that the charging system works. thousands of miles? eventually, i hope. right now the weather is turning cold (below freezing some nights) so i might not get much riding in until  spring comes in march.


him a layin

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Reply #22 on: November 25, 2022, 04:24:11 am
we've had a couple of days of lovely weather, so went for a ride to the yadkin river bridge. no problems except operator error. need to relearn some old habits.


darmahman

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Reply #23 on: November 29, 2022, 06:44:29 pm
Delkevic full exhaust took 10 pounds off. Then added rack and bags…:)
Scram 411, Moto Guzzi V85, BMW R100GS, Road King, BMW R1200C , Suzuki DRZ-400E


him a layin

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Reply #24 on: November 30, 2022, 11:13:25 pm
explored some back roads in my little town, found the abandoned lutheran cemetery, graves from 1900-1920s
« Last Edit: November 30, 2022, 11:22:19 pm by him a layin »


him a layin

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Reply #25 on: November 30, 2022, 11:24:08 pm
explored some back roads in my little town, found the abandoned lutheran cemetery, graves from 1900-1920s. no problems beside operator error.


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Reply #26 on: December 01, 2022, 07:56:33 am


Exploring back roads, sealed or unsealed, is where these bikes really shine. ; :D
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him a layin

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Reply #27 on: December 04, 2022, 12:52:56 am
Exploring back roads, sealed or unsealed, is where these bikes really shine. ; :D
indeed.


him a layin

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Reply #28 on: December 14, 2022, 05:43:04 am
installed the battery-drain harness from Hitchcock's today. took 2 weeks to arrive from Germany because i cheaped out on the shipping. looks like a quality product, good clear instructions so installation was easy, about 15 minutes including running back and forth for tools.


him a layin

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Reply #29 on: December 17, 2022, 01:41:41 am
rode up to the Dan Nicholas state park today bumblebee yellow/black jacket was cozy despite 48*f. only stalled it once!


AzCal Retred

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Reply #30 on: December 17, 2022, 05:12:58 am
That mist & low-angle sun looks plenty cold - you're a tough nut. :)
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him a layin

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Reply #31 on: December 18, 2022, 02:58:47 am
looks plenty cold - you're a tough nut. :)
some kind of nut, that's for sure. we get a completely different weather pattern here in NC. snow in the forecast for friday then supposed to warm up after new years.


him a layin

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Reply #32 on: January 04, 2023, 12:33:19 am
highs in the mid 60s this week, went down by the river again, then cruised the back roads. need some wind-blocking pants, jacket is fine. been shopping online, what is this obsession with everything black? i want neon: orange, yellow, green...
and when i'm doing the limit on the 2-lane double solid back roads, they floor it and roar past. surprise!


him a layin

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Reply #33 on: January 07, 2023, 02:30:54 pm
just ordered a pair of neon yellow rain pants from TSC: https://www.tractorsupply.com/.../glowear-unisex-hi-vis... yes, i could have got them cheaper, and no they're not armored MC gear, but they'll allow me to keep riding in the chilly until i get the real thing, at which point these will be used for cold weather bicycling. be loud, be proud!

i looked at some rubbery ones, and ripstop/pvc too, and decided to spring for the pricier (2X) breathable instead, on the theory that i'd get more utility out of them. some of the cheaper models look like they would disintegrate at 60mph.


wachuko

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Reply #34 on: January 09, 2023, 03:49:06 pm
I would think that the obvious things to change to make it lighter are:

1. Exhaust
2. Tubeless conversion
3. Battery with Lithium-Ion (LiFePO4) unit...
4. If comfortable doing so, delete Evap
5. If comfortable doing so, Air Injection Delete Kit

Then you have small stuff that can be remove (or replace with lighter parts):

1. If you are riding solo, remove the passenger pegs
2. Remove the front peak... seems to be there only for looks...
3. Replace all bolts with titanium equivalents...
4. Replace all lights with lighter LED  equivalents


What else?  Beside loosing a few pounds myself?
Ride safe!
Wachuko
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him a layin

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Reply #35 on: January 09, 2023, 06:37:55 pm
my guess is that little things like the bolts are trivial, maybe a couple of ounces altogether. i'm looking at the scram as an example for the best return.


wachuko

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Reply #36 on: January 09, 2023, 07:20:04 pm
my guess is that little things like the bolts are trivial, maybe a couple of ounces altogether. i'm looking at the scram as an example for the best return.

Ohh... missed that... I thought you were looking to staying with the Himalayan and making it lighter while still using it for its intended purpose (off roading with gear).

I plan to get one next year... so at least it served as an exercise on some of the changes that I will make to mine  ;)

And I agree, replacing the bolts with titanium equivalent... not cost effective for the weight it would save... and least not in my book.
Ride safe!
Wachuko
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him a layin

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Reply #37 on: January 09, 2023, 10:16:54 pm
Ohh... missed that... I thought you were looking to staying with the Himalayan

no, you had it right. i'm staying with the himalayan. and in keeping with the himalayan's main theme, i'm insufferably cheap, so if i can simply take something off the bike, that's a free weight loss.


AzCal Retred

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Reply #38 on: January 10, 2023, 05:45:12 am
" I'm insufferably cheap, so if i can simply take something off the bike, that's a free weight loss. "

Well spoken. Tires are about the best mods you can make that have a noticeable effect on performance & you'll eventually need them anyway. If you are just occasionally cowtrailing, pretty much anything will work. You can do a lot with different weight fork oils & spring preload to suit yourself. The Himi at 440 pounds & about 25 HP is a bit portly but a good dual purpose mount with easy maintenance and stabile handling within its envelope. The KTM 390 adventure is 90 pounds lighter, 15 HP more powerful, +2" higher every time you swing a leg over and another $2500 more. The upcoming 450 Himalayan should be similar to the 390 KTM in performance and likely about the same money.

It would take a LOT of time & money to whittle the 411 Himi down by 90 pounds and add another 15 HP, probably way more than $2500 in time & parts. That center stand is worth its weight in gold for ease of maintenance & trailside repairs. Way better to just spend the money up front if you really feel the need for more ungawa. What I've seen is that the rider is normally at least 80% of the trail equation. Learning to actually use what you have seems to have been forgotten in the race to sell "faster" equipment. I can testify that buying a pricier, faster machine doesn't make you a better rider, it just guarantees you'll eventually hit the ground at a higher speed... :o ;D

https://www.webbikeworld.com/2022-ktm-390-adventure/
https://www.webbikeworld.com/2022-royal-enfield-himalayan/
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him a layin

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Reply #39 on: January 10, 2023, 10:04:51 pm
sure, the himalayan could be lighter and have more power, but it is good enough for the kind of riding i do now. and the price point can't be beat for a new bike. i also looked at the bmw310, ktm390, and klr650 and chose the himmy :) i'll lightly mod it to make it mine. eventually i may swap it for something else, but for now it will do just fine.


him a layin

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Reply #40 on: January 14, 2023, 11:01:12 pm
got my rain pants from TSC today. you can't see me!


him a layin

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Reply #41 on: January 30, 2023, 10:51:57 pm
it's a lovely day for a ride in the country. expecting rain off and on for the rest of the week. strike while the iron is hot, seize the day!
went out past the edge of town, looked at some pastures, then browsed the baptist cemetery on the way back, graves from 1900 and thereabouts.


AzCal Retred

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Reply #42 on: January 31, 2023, 01:05:44 am
Looks like you had a nice toot! Is that windscreen keeping some cool air off of your chest?
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


him a layin

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Reply #43 on: January 31, 2023, 02:22:05 am
yes. i was skeptical at first, but it works very well. i open the visor on my helmet a half-inch or so to keep the air fresh and condensation under control. i still don't have actual MC boots or pants, but what i have is adequate for now. one of the few mods i did to my H1 long ago was a windscreen about this size. it's been over 35 years since  i rode regularly, so it's still sort of new to me, but i'm getting the hang of it and looking forward to riding more when the weather warms. the back end seems looser-connected to the road than i remember, maybe the stock tire?


AzCal Retred

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Reply #44 on: January 31, 2023, 05:22:27 pm
Tire compounds and air pressure are some real voodoo. For summer riding almost anything works. IF I was riding any on cold & wet or frosty tarmac I'd spring for real rubber by a real manufacturer with actual cold/wet/icy road experience like Dunlop, Michelin, Metzeler, Avon or maybe Bridgestone. My dirt-years criteria was that if I fell off less, the tires were likely better that what I had on before. At our age I can't in good conscience recommend that Darwinian approach. Lots of fast riders here have valid opinions on what contemporary rubber works well in adverse conditions, but not me. Myself I use Duro because it wears well and is cheap, but I'm not out there in the cold & wet either. Duro for "casual summer use" is OK, but for anything else you probably want the real deal.
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him a layin

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Reply #45 on: Yesterday at 01:07:44 am
forecast for today was cloudy and 60f, so i was planning to go for a ride. but it was light sprinkling all day, so no go. :(
rest of the week is expected to be about the same, rain and/or chilly.  so likely no more riding for me this week.  :'(


wachuko

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Reply #46 on: Yesterday at 05:35:08 pm
I keep documenting how to make the bike lighter... Since you started the thread with that, figured I would share my updated list  :D

Weight reduction (still researching, all these numbers from other owners or product websites):

1. RK Takasago 520 pitch chain and sprocket set - 3 lbs lighter than stock
2. YSS rear suspension - 4 lbs lighter than stock
3. Lithium (LiFePO4) battery - 5.5 lbs lighter than stock - one option IMP08-X
4. Delkevic carbon fiber complete exhaust system - 10 lbs lighter than stock
5. Wheels - replace stock rims with aluminum replacements - 10 lbs
6. Tubeless setup - I think, have not weighted this, that getting rid of the inner tubes would save another - 5-8 lbs??
7. Going solo so will be removing passenger pegs - ? lbs ?
8. Removing bumper peak. I really do not get why RE added that... just for looks I am guessing. - ? lbs ?
9. Remove EVAP system - ? lbs ?
10. Hitchcock's Brake disc contoured for rear wheel. They claim it is lighter than the stock unit. - ? lbs?
11. Replace all hardware (nuts and bolts) with titanium hardware. On this one, as mentioned before, the cost is not worth the amount of weight loss.... but wanted to keep it on the list...
12. Bar ends - ? lbs ?

There... back to normal programming
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 05:40:01 pm by wachuko »
Ride safe!
Wachuko
‘21 Royal Enfield Continental GT 650


wachuko

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  • '21 Continental GT 650
Reply #47 on: Yesterday at 08:43:57 pm
Left one out...

13. Royal Enfield Adventure handle bar in aluminum - they claim it is 20% less weight than stock handlebar
Ride safe!
Wachuko
‘21 Royal Enfield Continental GT 650


him a layin

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Reply #48 on: Yesterday at 11:00:06 pm
I keep documenting how to make the bike lighter... Since you started the thread with that, figured I would share my updated list  :D
....
There... back to normal programming
fitting into the himalayan's target market as i do, (cheep cheep cheep) i will eventually do some of these, especially the "omit"s. it may be some time, as i first want to get to know the bike as it came from the factory.

meanwhile, if you think it's useful to stash your accumulated knowledge here, please feel free to do so. i even get to feel like i contributed to the knowledge base by asking the question, thank you very much! :D