Author Topic: E-Bike developments  (Read 105394 times)

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Arschloch

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Reply #945 on: December 04, 2022, 05:24:04 pm
I would be wary of the "New European Driving Cycle (NEDC)". Getting 112 miles out of a 6 kWh battery pack is not going to happen unless you are either traveling at 20 mph on level ground with no wind, or that distance is actually 112 km, and even then you would still be traveling at city speeds.

The only minor problem is that if you tell them that it's impossible they'll shut your company down. So who gives a fu#k.  ;)


AzCal Retred

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Reply #946 on: December 04, 2022, 06:31:46 pm
@ # 943: "I love the notion of having a reverse "

Not just for Goldwings anymore... ;D

Pointed downhill into a parking slot, sometimes tiptoes just aren't enough on a 500 pound machine!  ;D
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Richard230

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Reply #947 on: December 04, 2022, 07:19:46 pm
@ # 943: "I love the notion of having a reverse "

Not just for Goldwings anymore... ;D

Pointed downhill into a parking slot, sometimes tiptoes just aren't enough on a 500 pound machine!  ;D

I won't argue with that. it took Zero something like 12 years to offer a reverse on their latest models. Should be easy to do on an electric motorcycle but they just didn't bother with offering a reverse (which they call Park Mode) until this year.
2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM Duke 390, 2002 Yamaha FZ1


NVDucati

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Reply #948 on: December 04, 2022, 08:22:06 pm
I won't argue with that. it took Zero something like 12 years to offer a reverse on their latest models. Should be easy to do on an electric motorcycle but they just didn't bother with offering a reverse (which they call Park Mode) until this year.
Sincere question: Can you use it to get the bike onto the centerstand ????
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #949 on: December 04, 2022, 09:09:03 pm
If you had a 2WD machine that'd work, but as the rear wheel normally elevates up off the ground in the center-standing process...?
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


NVDucati

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Reply #950 on: December 04, 2022, 10:06:28 pm
If you had a 2WD machine that'd work, but as the rear wheel normally elevates up off the ground in the center-standing process...?
Understand / don't disagree.
Yet, when you are sitting on the bike and "rocking" it off the centerstand ... no mechanical parts or dimensions are different.
 Remember back in time when we would mount the centerstand while sitting on the bike? It was the same(ish) motion as rowing a boat. In that case the front wheel went up and the rear rolled backwards.
 I know that when taking my 1300 OFF the stand and the bike is even slightly facing uphill I use a tick of 1st gear to get it up and over the center point. Then a easy squeez on the front brake and everything is calm and gentle. I also know that I never take a jumbo bike off the stand while standing beside it.
_ I just have this deep suspicion that a E-reverse would be very helpful. I've actually sent CSC an email asking if they have tried it. Hoping for an answer if they aren't scared off by today's world. I guess I could troll one of the biker lunch spots and find a couple of spotters and a human reverse motor and try it on my 650. huh. ;)
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GlennF

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Reply #951 on: December 04, 2022, 11:08:07 pm
My most embarrassing situation with a centre stand was trying to rock a bike off the centre stand that was parked on a left/right slope. It rocked forward fine and then ever so gradually tipped over to the right :D


Richard230

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Reply #952 on: December 05, 2022, 01:41:31 am
Just offhand I can't think of any electric motorcycle that I am familiar with that has a center stand. I know that Zero's don't.   :(
2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM Duke 390, 2002 Yamaha FZ1


NVDucati

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Reply #953 on: December 05, 2022, 02:00:49 am
Just offhand I can't think of any electric motorcycle that I am familiar with that has a center stand. I know that Zero's don't.   :(
The CSC RX1C 2023 does. In fact in their promo video at 4:04 min they make a big deal about it. Maybe that's because nobody else has one, like you say.
https://cscmotorcycles.com/buy-a-bike/electric-scooters/rx1e-electric-motorcycle/
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #954 on: December 05, 2022, 03:50:36 am
" Remember back in time when we would mount the centerstand while sitting on the bike? "

Both my KS500 & ES350 still work flawlessly this way. I kick start them on the centerstand whilst standing off to the right side, then step aboard, rock forward and then "on a Firey Horse With the Speed of Light, a Cloud of Dust and a Hearty Heigh-Yo Silver!" I'm off to the races. It is however helpful & less embarrassing to "break free" the clutch plates first... :o 8) These bikes both run the 3.50 x 19 front and 4.00x19 rear, so centerstand lift is only about 1/2" - 3/4".

I have a project 550 Nighthawk that for some reason has at least 2 1/2" of air under the rear wheel when on the centerstand; that'll strain your 1/2 & 1/2.

The Bullet allows for rear wheel changes by having a rotatable rear fender substructure, maybe that's why they don't elevate the rear as far off of the ground as modern hardware. Having to have a friend help you tilt over your 500 pound bike simply to remove the rear wheel does seem a bit ham-fisted, but that's been the drill I've always seen on "modern" hardware. I've even resorted to digging a pit below the rear wheel on occasion. After that, the Bullet system of allowing easy wheel removal access and retaining the greasy bits on the swingarm was a real treat, just like it was designed by someone that actually had to ride it every day. 

But none of the aforementioned helps if you stuff it nose first downhill into a fortuitous parking space - it's grunt & strain time then, much to the amusement of any bystanders.

https://www.goldwingmisfits.co.uk/goldwing-1500-history/
After a false start the previous year, the long awaited GL1500 finally hit the buying public for the 1988 model year. This of course was a major new model and totally redesigned from the ground up. The GL1500 now had a silky smooth flat six cylinder engine of 1520cc and a reverse gear, real news for touring motorcycles in those days. This was the first mass produced six-cylinder motorcycle to have a reverse gear and was more in line with the intentions of Honda's 1470cc six -cylinder prototype M1 of 1972. The M1 had been an engineering exercise to see what could be achieved with the available technology of the day and it is possible that the GL1500 engine designers drew some inspiration from the earlier work.
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


Richard230

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Reply #955 on: December 05, 2022, 03:03:41 pm
The CSC RX1C 2023 does. In fact in their promo video at 4:04 min they make a big deal about it. Maybe that's because nobody else has one, like you say.
https://cscmotorcycles.com/buy-a-bike/electric-scooters/rx1e-electric-motorcycle/

That CSC RX1C has a lot going for it. Until you mentioned it, I had never heard of it. If only the battery pack had 18 kWh instead of 6 kWh I would really be interested. But then I am pretty sure that it wouldn't look like that as there would be no room in the chassis to place a battery pack that large. Plus, the price of the bike would probably be $10K higher. It looks like they have a good model for broken city streets and suburban commuting as long as it lives up to the claimed specifications - not always something that you can rely on with a Chinese-manufactured motorcycle. 
2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM Duke 390, 2002 Yamaha FZ1


AzCal Retred

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Reply #956 on: December 05, 2022, 05:14:37 pm
The $9K RX1e will be the machine the everyman buys instead of the $25K Livewire. "Prestige" won't buy a cup of coffee. An 80-100 mile working range will get a lot of folks to work & back for about $15K less up front. The RX1e looks like a good, affordable effort.

I didn't see anything about the RX1 regeneratively charging the battery, so I assume that having a charger at both ends of the trip would be prudent. It also already features a Lithium battery, so you aren't going to pack many more KWHs of storage onto the existing frame. Unless you're willing to tow a 100 pound trailer full of old hybrid batteries, 100 miles is what you got. The 6KWH Toyota hybrid batteries typically weigh 50 - 80 pounds. Even with that the RX1's range just goes up maybe another 100 miles at best. There's a reason the Nissan Leaf and Tesla batteries are close to 1000 pounds. Maybe a generator on that tow-behind trailer with three 5 gallon gas cans. :o 8)

We're still waiting on the Batacitor. Existing battery tech limits functionality and there's nothing looming on the horizon. Liquid hydrocarbon fuel energy storage tech is tough to beat for practicality, energy density & convenience. Synthetic fuels made with atmospheric or renewable sourced carbon are low hanging fruit and solve the problem without requiring a complete electrical grid system rebuild and all new vehicles. Unless you are in the business of profiteering from electrical system upgrades and new vehicle sales...um...wait a minute...now just how many lobbyists are in Washington DC...?  ;D ;D ;D "Mo-munay mo-munay mo-munay..."
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NVDucati

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Reply #957 on: December 05, 2022, 06:47:00 pm

We're still waiting on the Batacitor. Existing battery tech limits functionality and there's nothing looming on the horizon. Liquid hydrocarbon fuel energy storage tech is tough to beat for practicality, energy density & convenience.
Solid State Hydrogen keeps creeping forward.
A couple of take-aways from the article linked below are:
"Plasma Kinetics had to put its plans (and patents) on hold for nearly a decade because the Department of Defense wanted to gain a lead in applying Smith’s methodology to missile tech and other military applications.

Now, the startup’s hydrogen storage tech may have the chance to challenge the battery business and the trillions of dollars sunk into it worldwide."

AND
"The negatively charged nano-photonic film has a strong affinity for positively charged H2, absorbing it in minutes at simple atmospheric pressure. Smith says.
    If you can provide 10 kilotons of hydrogen per hour to a Plasma Kinetics system, it can absorb all 10 kilotons.
“It’s just a matter of how much you want to scale.”  "


https://hydrogen-central.com/solid-state-hydrogen-storage-alternative-batteries/
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Arschloch

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Reply #958 on: December 05, 2022, 07:28:50 pm
Maybe before sinking trillions of dollars into this new hydrogen storage facility technology someone may ask this time the question where all the H2 is going to come from.

Nope, not going to happen, that would be called learning from history.  I would not want to know anyway, however keen to hear some ideas.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2022, 07:45:19 pm by derottone »


NVDucati

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Reply #959 on: December 05, 2022, 09:29:23 pm
Maybe before sinking trillions of dollars into this new hydrogen storage facility technology someone may ask this time the question where all the H2 is going to come from.

Nope, not going to happen, that would be called learning from history.  I would not want to know anyway, however keen to hear some ideas.
Where do you think hydrogen comes from?
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