Author Topic: E-Bike developments  (Read 47841 times)

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axman88

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on: May 26, 2021, 06:21:59 pm
Everywhere I look on the internet, I am seeing interesting developments in lightweight, electrically assisted transport.

The more I investigate, the more options I see, in terms of power and configuration, and there are many companies and individuals going in different directions.  My impression is that here in the US, one of the most popular, if not THE most popular is the Fat Tire Ebike.  The Himiway Cruiser, the Sondors X, and the RadRover are all examples of this, and there are many more.   https://www.radpowerbikes.com/products/radrover-electric-fat-bike

With it's 4" + wide tires and traditional frame format, it seems to me that Americans have recreated the Schwinn heavyweight of their youth, but with electrical power to give them, once again, the lungs and legs they had in high school.

Meanwhile, elsewhere, but especially in Europe, development is considerably more diverse.   All sorts of trikes and quads are being designed and built, velomobiles that offer partially or fully enclosed cabins, even taxis and cargo vehicles.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxEedUL_7hQ

And yet, these diverse vehicles meet the legal definition of "bicycle" in many countries, and can take advantage of existing infrastructure.

This one is interesting, a pedal powered, electrically assisted, mini-semi truck that is generally produced with battery power sources, but here we see a developmental prototype equipped with a small fuel cell and hydrogen cylinder, which gives it a 190 mile range.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrcC-_hRtYo

Here, a similar design is used as a taxi:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cOMroqj684


AzCal Retred

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Reply #1 on: May 26, 2021, 06:30:57 pm
You been busy!  ;D  Nice link.

And this was a great turn of phrase.  " Americans have recreated the Schwinn heavyweight of their youth, but with electrical power to give them, once again, the lungs and legs they had in high school. "  Ya could'a been a "Mad Men" contendah'...!  ;D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Men

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zimmemr

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Reply #2 on: May 26, 2021, 09:42:34 pm
You been busy!  ;D  Nice link.

And this was a great turn of phrase.  " Americans have recreated the Schwinn heavyweight of their youth, but with electrical power to give them, once again, the lungs and legs they had in high school. "  Ya could'a been a "Mad Men" contendah'...!  ;D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Men
Wait a minute there, I still ride a Schwinn! But I'm thinking it'd take about a 16KV generator to make my lungs look like they did in high school and even that's a stretch. "Hey hon I'm gonna ride my pedal bike down to the corner for some cigars" ;D


Karl Fenn

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Reply #3 on: May 27, 2021, 11:46:24 am
Well E bikes are a good idea but because of these insane British laws they must be peddled despite the fact they only do 15 mph, ironically you can ride a normal bike at 25 mph, but can't ride an electric that does 15 without peddling, how mental is that whatever lunatics write these laws.


Nitrowing

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Reply #4 on: May 27, 2021, 12:32:25 pm
Well E bikes are a good idea but because of these insane British laws they must be peddled despite the fact they only do 15 mph, ironically you can ride a normal bike at 25 mph, but can't ride an electric that does 15 without peddling, how mental is that whatever lunatics write these laws.
This isn't a new issue either.
The Sinclair C5 was restricted to 15mph because of this law. Derestricted, they do nearly 40mph.
That's 40 years ago... nothing's changed.
No wonder we no longer have a motor industry


Richard230

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Reply #5 on: May 27, 2021, 02:05:35 pm
Well E bikes are a good idea but because of these insane British laws they must be peddled despite the fact they only do 15 mph, ironically you can ride a normal bike at 25 mph, but can't ride an electric that does 15 without peddling, how mental is that whatever lunatics write these laws.

Shouldn't you also have a person running in front of your e-bike waving a red flag, too?   ::)
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derottone

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Reply #6 on: May 27, 2021, 02:54:53 pm
Shouldn't you also have a person running in front of your e-bike waving a red flag, too?   ::)

It's not a big deal to make an ebike with 4kW motor that does 60mph or close and looks like a bicycle, would you like to see that on the roads too? ;D
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Richard230

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Reply #7 on: May 27, 2021, 04:16:53 pm
It's not a big deal to make an ebike with 4kW motor that does 60mph or close and looks like a bicycle, would you like to see that on the roads too? ;D

My son-in-law built an e-bike on a mountain bicycle frame with a hub motor putting out 3KW about 10 years ago, powered by 40 pounds of NiCa batteries. But it was pretty heavy and one day when it ran out of juice he tried pedaling it 5 miles home and was completely wasted after he finally pushed it up the last hill. Plus, the bike would hit 40 mph and stopping it with the push bike's rim clamping brakes didn't work any better than the brakes on an iron barrel bullet.  :o  After that he gave up riding e-bikes.
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derottone

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Reply #8 on: May 27, 2021, 05:00:07 pm
It might take a bit more refined development to do the 60mph, I doubt any company will do it. Most likely you would need a motorcycle helmet and a licence to take it on the road in Germany anyway. May as well take a propper motorbike. He who owns the roads makes the rules what can drive or ride on them. That would be here the state, once the EU burocrats are dealth with.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 05:02:33 pm by derottone »
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #9 on: May 27, 2021, 07:44:33 pm
Many e-bikes make use of regenerative braking, where the motor becomes a generator and provides auxiliary braking force through either recharging the battery or dissipating kinetic energy as heat in a radiator grid. Braking in general is a well traveled road, nothing to learn there, just apply what's already known. Top speed is a function of drag & available power, which is simply a design issue for the responsible engineer. So far "e-bikes" have exceeded 200 MPH. It's absurd to be stating what can or can't be done with e-bikes, as that depends on the parameters selected for a particular build. With a Bill Gates budget I'm certain quite a wonderous machine could be produced. If you spec a $1,500 maximum retail price tag, quite another machine would emerge from the workshop. Axman88 has provided an interesting glimpse into what's currently being done and available for "reasonable" money and is to be commended, not criticized for what you personally "think" is or isn't possible.

https://www.choosewheels.com/fast-electric-motorcycles/
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derottone

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Reply #10 on: May 27, 2021, 07:50:03 pm
I guarantee you if you take all Bill Gatses money and stuff it in an electric motorbike development, be it a one of unique prototype, it won't beet a gasoline powered bike on the IOM.  ;) ;D ;D ;D

...unless they make a silly show like RE did with the 650 on the bonnevill Salt flats, in Hollywood everything is possible.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 08:05:59 pm by derottone »
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #11 on: May 27, 2021, 08:08:25 pm
Such a "guarantee" is entirely dependent on current, available technology. 5 years from now a fuel cell (still an e-bike) equipped machine could in fact be the dominant IOM force. Even with todays tech, a "Mega-budget" could produce a formidable effort. Think back on Honda's NR500, in 1977 going head to head GP racing with the highly developed 2 strokes, giving up both power & weight advantages in a field full of highly competent riders and machines. Lots of learning & a few good finishes, but there if the leaders screwed up. Maybe with more current materials such as beryllium, titanium, carbon fiber nanotube, etc. they may have dominated, but it took a large box of money to do what they did. Electric motors have a exploitable advantages over infernal combustion engines, and if better materials gives them a superior power to weight margin, it could happen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_NR500
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derottone

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Reply #12 on: May 27, 2021, 08:17:28 pm
I believe it when I see it, let the money burning beginn. I'm not going to eat bug burgers though just to make it possible for couple money sobs to keep persuing that goal forever.  ;)
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axman88

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Reply #13 on: May 27, 2021, 10:39:37 pm
It might take a bit more refined development to do the 60mph, I doubt any company will do it. Most likely you would need a motorcycle helmet and a licence to take it on the road in Germany anyway.
I'd be happy to take that bet, and the first guy I'd be looking at to do it, would be David Twomey, the creative force behind Juicer bikes.  ( Not Juiced bikes )    http://www.juicer.bike/

David's machines are basically handmade, are gorgeous retro creations, and he's currently using 3KW motors in his highest performance models.  I wouldn't doubt that he's already surpassed 60 mph, but since this isn't capability that can be legally claimed for a production E-bicycle, you can't blame him for not blowing that particular horn too loudly.

Here's more info on the development of Juicer bikes.  I personally think that they are the best looking, best engineered "custom styled" , recreational street machines around.  https://www.electricbike.com/juicer-e-bikes-king-of-the-boardtrackers/

But E-bikes aren't about going fast, they are about low cost, low impact, local urban transport.

Consider my situation.  My car can go at least 90 mph, but when I drive my car to commute to work in Chicago, an urban environment, it takes me 30 minutes to cover the 5.6 miles.  That's 11.2 mph, average, but when I'm rolling, I'm traveling about 30 mph average.  The majority of my commute time is spent stationary at traffic lights, behind a string of other lemmings, in their 90 to 120 mph capable cars.  When I ride my old 3 speed bicycle instead of driving, (human powered, not electric), I can cover the same 5.6 miles in 35 minutes.   I'm only traveling at about 12 mph, and with a little good luck and timing, I will only need to stop for one or two traffic lights.  More than half of the world's population now lives in urban environments, like me.  This is what E-bikes are designed for.

My speed is externally constrained, by external factors, like traffic.  Having the ability to go 90, or 60, or even 35 mph adds nothing of value.  Low operating cost is good for me, and low emissions is good for everyone.  Being able to park anywhere, or push my machine inside the building for security, is a big plus too.

Ebikes are legally constrained to 15 mph in most European countries, according to what I've read, and to 20, (or 28 mph, depending on class) in the USA.   Most of those being sold in the USA today can be easily modified, by a software update, to go faster, but this isn't really the point.  Going outside those limits is forbidden for manufacturers.  It's commonly done by individuals, and, so far, I haven't heard of anybody being prosecuted in the US for modifying their machine to go faster, but thanks to the exponential nature of aero drag, doing so heavily reduces cruising range.  Personally, I'm quite content with a real 20 mph top speed on my bicycle, provided it comes with the right to coast through red lights, (here in Chicago, it "sorta" does), plus no required insurance, no required drivers license, no required registration, no required inspection, no required nothing and no paying for gasoline.  I can legally ride on bike paths.  I can even occasionally ride on the sidewalk, which I've been taking advantage of with the bicycle, since a major road on my commute has been shut down for the last two years for bridge work, but the pedestrian walkway has remained open.

Hub motors now generally include a 6 bolt standard mount pattern for disc brakes, and disc brakes front and rear are standard on the current crop of E-bikes, cable actuated for base models, and hydraulic actuated on high end machines.  Drum hubs are also readily available.

Perhaps for reasons of price point, I haven't seen a lot of makers of E-bikes offering regenerative braking systems.    Regen. isn't really efficient enough from what I've read, to make it worth implementing in these low speed, low mass vehicles.  When I'm riding my human powered 3 speed bike, in the flat world that is Chicago, I can go all day without needing the brakes.  The idea is conserve the energy in the first place, not to spend $1 to try to get 15 cents back in change.


derottone

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Reply #14 on: May 28, 2021, 11:14:43 am
I'm not to much into retro styling of an e-bike that is supposed to look like a petrol engine powered bike, but I'm not the market neither a potential customer. E-bikes may need to discover their own styling.

If I wanted anything like that and burn cash on it, it would be a custom one off. If I sold more than 3 a commie would come along (or some Swedish dwarf on a fat Harley with  inferiority complex) asking for a donation for sure, so why bother.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2021, 11:36:08 am by derottone »
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