Unofficial Royal Enfield Community Forum
Royal Enfield Motorcycles => 350 J Platform => Topic started by: usasmartindian on October 29, 2022, 04:20:21 pm
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Folks, wanted to run it by this forum and wanted to get some insights on other folks who might have been facing or faced similar situations..my 2021 meteor 350 has 4500 miles and offlate the mileage has dropped significantly. I did some basic checks and other troubleshooting listed in the order to see if can see any improvements and please let me know if I have missed any?
1. Untill 3800 miles I was getting constantly 86-92mpg [never more than this as few claimed around 101-110mpg] with a constant drive on TXS local roads hovering around 50-55mph. All of a sudden after 3900 miles started seeing a drop in mileage given and monitored since then reducing to 82mpg, then to 78mpg then now 76mpg.
2. Did an oil change and using Motul 7100 15w50 4t. rechecked the valve settings and is in perfect measurements 0.18mm exhaust and 0.08mm inlet. Then also replaced the airfilter and did throw in some seafoam FI cleaner [based on other recommendations]. Did drive few hundred miles and still not above 76mpg with the same range of 50-55mph..
3.still getting 75-76mpg. The ride, gear shifting and cold starts all running well and everything seems to be the same. But totally confused on why this drop in mileage
4. Recently thought through at our around 4300 miles I decided to do a simple ECM reset by disconnecting the battery terminals [both positive and negative] and waited 15 mins before reconnecting back assuming it will be reset to the factory OEM values and relearn everything. Now have 4500 miles and still hovering @ or around 76mpg.
5. Did check the spark plug and using a iridium ngk one that I replaced when it was @1000 miles and tip is non black and seems like A/F is igniting well with little to no soot on the sides of the spark plug.
6. Did use different fuel grades too 87, 89, 91 grades and no change.
Now totally lost on this mileage drop from 92-->86--78-->and now constant 76mpg at around 4500 miles. Any insight and any other recommendations guys or people who are facing this similar issue. Appreciate it.
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Cold air is denser than warm air so more petrol (gas) is injected to keep the air/fuel ratio correct.
Could be nothing more than that if the plug colour looks right.
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This article expands on what Ivy has indicated:
https://www.boston.com/cars/news-and-reviews/2016/01/22/how-cold-weather-kills-your-gas-mileage-and-what-to-do-about-it/#:~:text=According%20to%20FuelEconomy.gov%2C%20a,of%20three%20to%20four%20miles.
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3.still getting 75-76mpg. The ride, gear shifting and cold starts all running well and everything seems to be the same.
There is nothing wrong with the engine, as your own line 3 indicates. I'd say Ivy and Frank have answered your question. Maybe not dwelling so much on your fuel mileage would be a good idea?
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Well, since you're not running the engine harder, you might set the bike on its center stand and check for dragging brakes. Spin wheel and apply brake. Release brake and spin again. If your brake(s) are sticking could be the slide pins need cleaned and lubed. Make sure your drive chain is adjusted properly and properly lubed. Make sure your tire pressure is 32 PSI Static when cold. My mileage drops to mid 70s if I run 60-65 mph for an extended period of time. Returns to 80+ mpg (US gallon) when I moderate my speeds to 40-60 mph. Please let us know how it works out.
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Appreciating this thread. Been noticing a similar drop recently (low 80s to closer to 70 mpg now, consistent riding conditions) but the sudden cold here has indeed... been a thing. The correlation is convincing. Now to dig out the puffy gloves.
A quick word from the back of the room.
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I have switched to 1 (one) range HOTTER spark plug in the winter on my guzzi , for the first time. Come spring and 90 deg. weather I'll be switching back at the first sign of motor running too warm.
It seems to help with the git-up-and-go factor also . ;)
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One other thing to consider: as said above, in colder weather, the air is denser. This makes it slightly harder for the bike to push through. The effect will increase the faster you ride, as drag goes up with the square of speed. The effect is marginal compared to the combustion issues mentioned, but may exaggerate the problem. My (diesel) car is very economical, giving me about 55 mpg average in summer, but as soon as the cold weather comes it drops to high 40s, same journeys and driving style. If the mileage doesn’t go back up in the Spring, start to worry then.
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The fuel supplied to your local gas station may have had its ethanol content increased.
That would definitely have changed things for the worse.
Worst case scenario is that one of the internal petrol tank pipes has a tiny fracture and your fuel is leaking out from the tank via the breather or evap tubes, although you’d probably detect this by smell - if the bike was parked up in an unvented area overnight.
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The fuel supplied to your local gas station may have had its ethanol content increased.
That would definitely have changed things for the worse.
Worst case scenario is that one of the internal petrol tank pipes has a tiny fracture and your fuel is leaking out from the tank via the breather or evap tubes, although you’d probably detect this by smell - if the bike was parked up in an unvented area overnight.
There’s so little likely hood this has occurred that in the absence of any other symptoms, I’d discount it completely. Thicker air and worrying too much are the only issues here.
My winter symptoms are similar. Ride it, love it for what it is and what it does would be my advice.
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Folks, wanted to run it by this forum and wanted to get some insights on other folks who might have been facing or faced similar situations..my 2021 meteor 350 has 4500 miles and offlate the mileage has dropped significantly. I did some basic checks and other troubleshooting listed in the order to see if can see any improvements and please let me know if I have missed any?
1. Untill 3800 miles I was getting constantly 86-92mpg [never more than this as few claimed around 101-110mpg] with a constant drive on TXS local roads hovering around 50-55mph. All of a sudden after 3900 miles started seeing a drop in mileage given and monitored since then reducing to 82mpg, then to 78mpg then now 76mpg.
2. Did an oil change and using Motul 7100 15w50 4t. rechecked the valve settings and is in perfect measurements 0.18mm exhaust and 0.08mm inlet. Then also replaced the airfilter and did throw in some seafoam FI cleaner [based on other recommendations]. Did drive few hundred miles and still not above 76mpg with the same range of 50-55mph..
3.still getting 75-76mpg. The ride, gear shifting and cold starts all running well and everything seems to be the same. But totally confused on why this drop in mileage
4. Recently thought through at our around 4300 miles I decided to do a simple ECM reset by disconnecting the battery terminals [both positive and negative] and waited 15 mins before reconnecting back assuming it will be reset to the factory OEM values and relearn everything. Now have 4500 miles and still hovering @ or around 76mpg.
5. Did check the spark plug and using a iridium ngk one that I replaced when it was @1000 miles and tip is non black and seems like A/F is igniting well with little to no soot on the sides of the spark plug.
6. Did use different fuel grades too 87, 89, 91 grades and no change.
Now totally lost on this mileage drop from 92-->86--78-->and now constant 76mpg at around 4500 miles. Any insight and any other recommendations guys or people who are facing this similar issue. Appreciate it.
Guys took a poke at doing a diligent chain cleanup and lube it in. I noticed tremendous smoothness and [definitely not a placebo effect] motor/transmission seems to be running with less effort. Even though had done the chain cleanup 400 miles back realized during summer - Fall transition no matter how much ever air is clean in "the texas" a lot of gunk came out during cleaning presumably like pollen/fine dust. I did run the vehicle with gas refill and drove for almost 100 miles round trip and notice its back to its 86mpg mark!!! ;D ;D
Lesson learnt here is if you touch the chain and even though it looks clean if black soot type sticks to your fingers then its time for a chain cleanup/lube and not wait till recommended chain cleaning intervals. It does impact the performance of the motor to drive the wheel from crank to wheel and any losses will be not noticeable but does consume gas to generate the amount of performance. Interesting but true!! :)
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That's the problem with the placebo effect. The one experiencing it has NO idea that it is happening. ::) ::)
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So how do ya clean the chain without taking it off ?
Its been a long time since I've had a chain to deal with. I had three BELT bikes and a SHAFT DRIVE for the main rides over the last 20+ years. All the chain drive machines durning that time have been "fix it up and sell it". I did have a W-650 and was surprised to put 3000 miles on it with out needing an adjustment for the chain.
The "O-Ring" chains are nothing like the old chains from way back. They used to need adjusting every 600 miles.
The last "Chain-Bike" I kept for years was a 1980 KZ750LTD.
https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1981/1/1/kawasaki-kz750-ltd
YEA it would do wheelies . :)
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So how do ya clean the chain without taking it off ?
Here you go. All you need to know about cleaning and lubing the chain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HE59OQ0qoQ
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An unloved chain, especially one with tight links will certainly rob some of the power attempting to reach the rear wheel and if your losing power you’re using fuel to compensate for that loss.
Here’s my take on chains…
The two most important things for maximum chain life are accurate wheel alignment and slack.
The chain should only make contact with the rear sprocket by its rollers and if the inner plates are rubbing against one side of the sprocket it’s evidencing misalignment and life expectancy will be reduced.
The O-ring chain on my own 47bhp twin was last adjusted some 7,600 miles ago and still remains comfortably within the recommended range of slack listed in the handbook. The rollers only get lubed when they get noisy. The side plates get a wipe over with ACF50 to stop them going rusty. It’ll have done 25,000 miles by the weekend and has only been adjusted four times from new.
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I came here to mention the chain but I see you figured that out all by yourself! These bikes use an o ring chain so it isn't really a matter of getting lube into the pins and rollers. What you are mainly concerned with are removal of dirt, followed by corrosion resistance. Everyone has their favorite chemicals for this process, from wet, flinging oil to solid waxy buildup. I have tried them all and what I have come up with is simply spraying with WD-40 and wiping with a rag to remove the crud and spraying with ACF50 to protect it. Do this at the end of your ride while the chain is warm. That also gives the ACF50 a chance to dry out and not fling off. It is still there doing its job.
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These bikes use an o ring chain so it isn't really a matter of getting lube into the pins and rollers. What you are mainly concerned with are removal of dirt, followed by corrosion resistance.
Plus you need lubrication to reduce the wear on the sprockets.
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I think that the cooler weather, possibly fuel changes, and just thinking about it too much can do that.
I've got a 2022 Royal Enfield Classic 350 and I'm getting near 100MPG here in SoCal, USA, but I would bet our crap winter gas is gonna change that!
I don't think there's a need to change your plug's heat range, but it's your bike.
I also put a DNA stage 2 filter kit in mine, and it feels/sounds better and I think it contributed to slightly more MPG, but even with $7/Gallon prices here, I just don't care 'cause I'm smiling too much!
Ride Safe 🙏🏼
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I also put a DNA stage 2 filter kit in mine, and it feels/sounds better and I think it contributed to slightly more MPG, but even with $7/Gallon prices here, I just don't care 'cause I'm smiling too much!
Ride Safe 🙏🏼
;D ;D Good attitude! I figure if I can afford to have a toy like a motorcycle, which gives me pleasure, why worry about how many MPG I might, or might not, be getting. It runs and it's fun!
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;D ;D Good attitude! I figure if I can afford to have a toy like a motorcycle, which gives me pleasure, why worry about how many MPG I might, or might not, be getting. It runs and it's fun!
100% my man! ;D
In reality, 95% of my miles are nothing more than wasting fuel. I'm 61, put in over 40 years work so far, raised three kids, and I'll be damned if AlGore is going to take this from me! 8)
Ride Safe 🙏🏼
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Ok all, I did take in all recommendations and did burn around 2 tanks of gas [premium] on my dug dug..as I mentioned in the past at its current engine age [4500+ miles old] with speeds maintaining less than 60 mph the mpg is constant 76mpg.
Now I am sure RE are notorious to set their ECU engine data at specified mileage intervals for the performance and behavior how the bike performs or needs to perform. Do you think its possible for the engine to behave this way? If we attribute it to the cold weather..then its difficult to digest when since the time I hit 3900 mile mark seeing this change...I would say in late July 2022...so from July 2022 till date when the weather was extreme hot, hot, warm/mildly cold, now its cold...its maintaining the 76mpg. Decrease from 92 to 86 to 82 to constant 76 by no means can be justifiable when others are still claiming getting 90-100mpg.
I am getting to the root of any other underlying issues that is developing unknowingly. I checked all tubes, fasteners etc. etc. for possible leakages like vacum, fuel, etc..all that is connected and seem to see no issues. This leads me to the fact that have RE pre-programmed the bike to consume more rich mixture ~4000 miles on-wards at the ECM side itself?
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...........This leads me to the fact that have RE pre-programmed the bike to consume more rich mixture ~4000 miles on-wards at the ECM side itself?
Why would they do that?
A lean mixture runs hotter and that would not be good for a brand new engine. If anything I'd say it would be the other way round, but highly unlikely.
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Another possible contributor to an apparent drop in gas mileage: Tire wear. If the bike still has the original tires, they've undoubtedly worn quite a bit. After thousands of miles, a motorbike tire is a smaller circle. Smaller circle = more revolutions per actual mile traveled = the odometer records more miles than the bike has actually traveled = the mpg calculation is performed with incorrect data.
Now, tire wear can't account for the entire drop in mpg reported by the OP, but it might be one factor among several.
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Another possible contributor to an apparent drop in gas mileage: Tire wear. If the bike still has the original tires, they've undoubtedly worn quite a bit. After thousands of miles, a motorbike tire is a smaller circle. Smaller circle = more revolutions per actual mile traveled = the odometer records more miles than the bike has actually traveled = the mpg calculation is performed with incorrect data.
Now, tire wear can't account for the entire drop in mpg reported by the OP, but it might be one factor among several.
If tyre wear means more wheel revolutions per mile travelled, and the bike therefore recording the apparent greater distance, this would mean the apparent mpg went up, not down.
Also, I reckon the effect would be so small as to be unnoticeable in real life.
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Another possible contributor to an apparent drop in gas mileage: Tire wear. If the bike still has the original tires, they've undoubtedly worn quite a bit. After thousands of miles, a motorbike tire is a smaller circle. Smaller circle = more revolutions per actual mile traveled = the odometer records more miles than the bike has actually traveled = the mpg calculation is performed with incorrect data.
Now, tire wear can't account for the entire drop in mpg reported by the OP, but it might be one factor among several.
In my experience, new tyres more consumption because of better grip
In my car in the last 3 tyres change with same brand and model(Michelin primacy) I always increase consumption after tyre change
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If tyre wear means more wheel revolutions per mile travelled, and the bike therefore recording the apparent greater distance, this would mean the apparent mpg went up, not down.
Also, I reckon the effect would be so small as to be unnoticeable in real life.
D'oh. You're right, of course. Don't know what I was thinking. Ignore my previous post.
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Good morning! If your chain is adjusted, cleaned and lubed properly, brakes are not dragging, tire pressure is correct and your 'right hand adjustment' ;) is consistent, then other than fuel grade the only thing I can think of is a sensor may be faulty. Do you have the proper OBD to check? Either way a call to your Dealer may be helpful.
During my break-in period I achieved up to 95 mpg (US). When I started running the bike normal the average mileage dropped to the low-mid 80's. Throttle management is paramount to fuel mileage obviously. Good luck!
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Good morning! If your chain is adjusted, cleaned and lubed properly, brakes are not dragging, tire pressure is correct and your 'right hand adjustment' ;) is consistent, then other than fuel grade the only thing I can think of is a sensor may be faulty. Do you have the proper OBD to check? Either way a call to your Dealer may be helpful.
During my break-in period I achieved up to 95 mpg (US). When I started running the bike normal the average mileage dropped to the low-mid 80's. Throttle management is paramount to fuel mileage obviously. Good luck!
What sensor are we talking about? Are you stating a possible O2 sensor?
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There was no mention made of an O2 sensor at all. Guessing isn't going to solve your issue.
My knowledge of the EFI system is limited, but I do believe if any component of that system were to be faulty, then the engine light in the instrument cluster would be on to alert the rider to have the OBD scanner connected to find out which code it is throwing and then be able to trace the problem.
Why doesn't the OP simply take his bike to the dealer and ask them to check it over because of his fuel mileage concerns? If they find nothing, then stop worrying about it. If they find something, it will be resolved. Might cost a few dollars if they find nothing, or it would be warranty if they do find something.
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There was no mention made of an O2 sensor at all. Guessing isn't going to solve your issue.
My knowledge of the EFI system is limited, but I do believe if any component of that system were to be faulty, then the engine light in the instrument cluster would be on to alert the rider to have the OBD scanner connected to find out which code it is throwing and then be able to trace the problem.
Why doesn't the OP simply take his bike to the dealer and ask them to check it over because of his fuel mileage concerns? If they find nothing, then stop worrying about it. If they find something, it will be resolved. Might cost a few dollars if they find nothing, or it would be warranty if they do find something.
All valid points Dex. I too have very limited knowledge of the new-fangled systems. I didn't mean any sensor specifically.
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Folks, had some offline discussions on this within my motorcycle group. few of hardcore bikers there told me an issue of this sort they faced on their other bikes and can be attributed to an not properly functioning O2 sensor. The sensor itself might be OK but sometimes the electrodes inside might be carbon coated based on the fact its a new bike when initially will run rich possibly coating soot on it that can over period of time can drive these sort of issues. its a simple check the voltage its giving to see if its working as intended to eliminate a faulty O2 sensor. So in the interest of checking connected using a multimeter.
2021 meteor has a 4 wired O2 sensor that is called a lamda sensor. This sensor takes in battery power to heat the sensor to certain temperature and then it kicks in as a closed loop to monitor A/F mixture controlled by ECM when engine warms up and exhaust gases heat up to check the O2 content. If the sensor reads close to 1 volt then its running rich A/F mixture causing excessive fuel consumption and if its between 0.1 to 0.4 v then its running lean mixture. Optimum A/F mixture should be within the stoichometric range mapping to anywhere between 0.5v to 0.75 v leading to optimum riding conditions for better fuel mileage. this can change based on the load on engine, speed of engine, etc. to ensure optimum fuel consumption and engine performance to keep the engine running safe all controlled by ECM based on riding conditions. So at times when its dirty or faulty the ECM will try to compensate the incorrect readings leading to bad mileage even though the sensor hasn't failed completely for the check engine light to turn on.
So having given the above detailed explanation I did this simple check and noticed the sensor is in open loop when the engine is started letting the engine warming up reading 0V. as soon as engine got warmer started seeing the voltage hovering any more from 0.87v to 0.96v. This showed it is running on rich A/F mixture. Then I let the whole thing cool down for few hours did remove the O2 sensor of the seat from exhaust pipe. noticed it was blackish around the casing. Then I used MAF sensor cleaner spray and gave it a good wash on the casing and also inside the small holes on top and sides diligently just like cleaning a MAF sensor. while flushing inside bit of carbon filled fluid came out..then wiped it clean and reinstalled in the exhaust well hand tightened so there are no leaks from there. remember one thing MAF sensor cleaning spray evaporates really quick and does remove any carbon or oily deposits..don't use any other solvents. turned on the bike with the multimeter connected and this time around it kicked in and voltage ranged from 0.45 to 0.6volts..That falls within the exact stoichometric range for A/F mixture ratio of 14.7:1 A:F ratio.
I had prior to this a full tank of gas [93 oct gas in usa] till the brim and had driven around 13 miles post fill on Trip A meter. Post all the O2 sensor cleaning the freaking bike was feeling peppy, responsive and quite smooth to ride almost like when it was behaving when it had just over 1000 miles before this whole mileage issue started. Rode for close to 36 miles and [13 already in + 36 miles more with the current at 49 miles on post full fill]. I still see the fuel gauge still all 7 bars showing tank full when in the past the first bar used to drop just after 37 miles or close to 40 miles range leading to 76mpg. I am hoping to ride more and see how this cleanup will help me further. In the past when mileage was good have noticed the first bar on the fuel gauge disappeared just around 50miles or 51 miles that would lead to an average 86-92mpg. If it does that voila have resolved the issue. Will keep this group posted when the first fuel bar disappears as its relates to 0.6 gallons per bar. thought of sharing.
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Thank you for sharing this info and your perseverance in attaining a solution. We think of our RE bikes as 'simple' but the emission standards are forcing the use of devices like the lambda sensor to make compliance. Your thread helps educate us hapless old-timers! Happy Thanksgiving!
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So do I have it right that :
When the O2 sensor is hot the motor runs richer ?
and
When the O2 sensor is not hot it runs lean ?
Or
Hot particles passing past the part sticking into the exaust flow , causes a electron flow. Like a magnet passing over a coil. ???
More hot particles = more voltage.
I don't know ??? Perhaps I should google "how an O2 sensor works "
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So do I have it right that :
When the O2 sensor is hot the motor runs richer ?
and
When the O2 sensor is not hot it runs lean ?
Or
Hot particles passing past the part sticking into the exaust flow , causes a electron flow. Like a magnet passing over a coil. ???
More hot particles = more voltage.
I don't know ??? Perhaps I should google "how an O2 sensor works "
Yeah, i gave up at, "Optimum A/F mixture should be within the stoichometric range".
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As MMRanch mentioned, I've perused a few Youtube videos on Lambda (O2) sensors. I would very much appreciate, usasmartindian, if you would tell what method you used to hook up your voltmeter to the lambda sensor. One method I viewed was to use a piercing probe on the black wire and another method used a computer program and a fitting to the OBD port on the bike. There may be other methods.
It also seems that the O2 sensors work identically to those in autos. One mechanic stated that the sensors are usually good for over a hundred thousand miles. That's good news!
I'm wondering too if the old method of a sparkplug electrode color check would help determine if an issue existed in the first place.
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Folks, had some offline discussions on this within my motorcycle group. few of hardcore bikers there told me an issue of this sort they faced on their other bikes and can be attributed to an not properly functioning O2 sensor. The sensor itself might be OK but sometimes the electrodes inside might be carbon coated based on the fact its a new bike when initially will run rich possibly coating soot on it that can over period of time can drive these sort of issues. its a simple check the voltage its giving to see if its working as intended to eliminate a faulty O2 sensor. So in the interest of checking connected using a multimeter.
2021 meteor has a 4 wired O2 sensor that is called a lamda sensor. This sensor takes in battery power to heat the sensor to certain temperature and then it kicks in as a closed loop to monitor A/F mixture controlled by ECM when engine warms up and exhaust gases heat up to check the O2 content. If the sensor reads close to 1 volt then its running rich A/F mixture causing excessive fuel consumption and if its between 0.1 to 0.4 v then its running lean mixture. Optimum A/F mixture should be within the stoichometric range mapping to anywhere between 0.5v to 0.75 v leading to optimum riding conditions for better fuel mileage. this can change based on the load on engine, speed of engine, etc. to ensure optimum fuel consumption and engine performance to keep the engine running safe all controlled by ECM based on riding conditions. So at times when its dirty or faulty the ECM will try to compensate the incorrect readings leading to bad mileage even though the sensor hasn't failed completely for the check engine light to turn on.
So having given the above detailed explanation I did this simple check and noticed the sensor is in open loop when the engine is started letting the engine warming up reading 0V. as soon as engine got warmer started seeing the voltage hovering any more from 0.87v to 0.96v. This showed it is running on rich A/F mixture. Then I let the whole thing cool down for few hours did remove the O2 sensor of the seat from exhaust pipe. noticed it was blackish around the casing. Then I used MAF sensor cleaner spray and gave it a good wash on the casing and also inside the small holes on top and sides diligently just like cleaning a MAF sensor. while flushing inside bit of carbon filled fluid came out..then wiped it clean and reinstalled in the exhaust well hand tightened so there are no leaks from there. remember one thing MAF sensor cleaning spray evaporates really quick and does remove any carbon or oily deposits..don't use any other solvents. turned on the bike with the multimeter connected and this time around it kicked in and voltage ranged from 0.45 to 0.6volts..That falls within the exact stoichometric range for A/F mixture ratio of 14.7:1 A:F ratio.
I had prior to this a full tank of gas [93 oct gas in usa] till the brim and had driven around 13 miles post fill on Trip A meter. Post all the O2 sensor cleaning the freaking bike was feeling peppy, responsive and quite smooth to ride almost like when it was behaving when it had just over 1000 miles before this whole mileage issue started. Rode for close to 36 miles and [13 already in + 36 miles more with the current at 49 miles on post full fill]. I still see the fuel gauge still all 7 bars showing tank full when in the past the first bar used to drop just after 37 miles or close to 40 miles range leading to 76mpg. I am hoping to ride more and see how this cleanup will help me further. In the past when mileage was good have noticed the first bar on the fuel gauge disappeared just around 50miles or 51 miles that would lead to an average 86-92mpg. If it does that voila have resolved the issue. Will keep this group posted when the first fuel bar disappears as its relates to 0.6 gallons per bar. thought of sharing.
While I'm hoping this little "exercise" in obsessing over varying mpg figures is now resolved to the OP's satisfaction, I'm also reminded of this classic case of gobbledygook from years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac7G7xOG2Ag
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OK, I had to come back here one more time to see if I could digest this O2 fault scenario that the OP thinks he has discovered. It wasn't until I got to the last paragraph that I realized that his methodology for computing the actual fuel mileage was quite bizarre.
Mr. usasmartindian is basing his figures on how soon the fuel bars on his instrument cluster disappear, which we have all ascertained, after having these Meteors for a while, gives us a totally inaccurate way to tell how much fuel is actually in the tank! Especially when you get to the last bar or two. We have all seen those bars come and go, like a kid playing with a light switch, which I can only assume is because of the sloshing of the fuel in the tank and also the angle of the terrain that you may be travelling over.
The fuel gauge certainly is one of the Meteor's big shortcomings, for those that like to run their tanks down before a refill. Even the low fuel light plays up, going on and off for dozens of miles after it first appears. Totally unreliable.
The solution to the OP's problem now seems pretty obvious to me. There is nothing wrong with the bike, just his method of computing his fuel consumption. ::)
The proper way to determine fuel mileage would be to fill the tank (only to the splash guard - NOT the brim), record the bike's mileage and then ride until the tank is fairly low again, at which point you note the mileage again and record how much fuel went into the tank to bring it back to the splash guard. Then do the math.
EDIT:
I would add that his estimate of 0.6 gallons per bar is incorrect, for the tank holds, according to the manual, approximately 15 litres, which equates to 3.99 US gallons, for a bar ratio breakdown of .57 gallons per bar. Of course, the shape of the fuel tank determines how fast those bars disappear as well and there is also the dead stock, unusable in the tank, to be considered.
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Well , here's the heart of what I found . The results of keeping it clean might be a "Hotter" running O2 (which is good) . So cleaning it every oil change could save fuel ? Also - turning on the switch for a 30 second delay in starting might save on the fuel bill too (long enough to put my gloves on ) ??
The Upstream Oxygen Sensor (Oxygen Sensor 1)
Oxygen sensor 1 is the upstream oxygen sensor in relation to the catalytic converter. It measures the air-fuel ratio of the exhaust coming out of the exhaust manifold and sends the high and low voltage signals to the powertrain control module in order to regulate the air-fuel mixture. When the powertrain control module receives a low voltage (lean) signal, it compensates by increasing the amount of fuel in the mixture. When the powertrain control module receives a high voltage (rich) signal, it leans the mixture by reducing the amount of fuel it adds to the mixture.
The powertrain control module’s use of the input from the oxygen sensor to regulate the fuel mixture is known as a closed feedback control loop. This closed loop operation results in a constant flip-flop between rich and lean, which allows the catalytic converter to minimize emissions by keeping the overall average ratio of the fuel mixture in proper balance.
However, when a cold engine is started, or if an oxygen sensor fails, the powertrain control module enters into open loop operation. In open loop operation, the powertrain control module does not receive a signal from the oxygen sensor and orders a fixed rich fuel mixture. Open loop operation results in increased fuel consumptions and emissions. Many newer oxygen sensors contain heating elements to help them get to operating temperature quickly in order to minimize the amount of time spent in open loop operation.
The Downstream Oxygen Sensor (Oxygen Sensor 2)
Oxygen sensor 2 is the downstream oxygen sensor in relationship to the catalytic converter. It measures the air-fuel ratio coming out of the catalytic converter to ensure the catalytic converter is functioning properly. The catalytic converter works to maintain the stoichiometric air-fuel ratio 14.7:1 while the powertrain control module constantly flip-flops between rich and lean air-fuel mixtures due to the input from the upstream oxygen sensor (sensor 1). Therefore, the downstream oxygen sensor (sensor 2) should produce a steady voltage of approximately 0.45 volts.
Hay ! We all "Live and Learn" , !! 8)
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I get that a bad O2 sensor can cause fueling issues, but why is the MIL light not on and in my experience a bad O2 sensor causes rough running, misfires, hesitation, etc.
I find it hard to except a bit of carbon build up would make any difference, unless it was sooted up really bad, which is unlikely give the age of the bike.
One way to test a bad O2 sensor is to run with it disconnected and see what the difference is.
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Probably as soon as it is disconnected you get engine light on
The only way to be sure is to do the math.. fill the tank, drive, and fill again
Like already been said
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Probably as soon as it is disconnected you get engine light on
The only way to be sure is to do the math.. fill the tank, drive, and fill again
Like already been said
Yes, that will tell you your consumption has increased or not but not why.
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My fuel consumption has increased with the cooler weather ... its down to the high 70's mpg(US),
.......
Those lazy summer days of putt-putting around on the back roads and getting 90mpg have give way to running 65 in the 55 zones to get to where I'm going.
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I use Fuelly.com to keep an accurate track on my mpg.
There’s a couple of Meteors on there already👍
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Hay usasmartindian
I've had a "Warped Disk" feeling coming out of the front end for a while now. Not only feeling it at low speed but :
with the bike on the center stand and the front wheel off the ground the brake drags a lot in one spot.
I have measured the disk all the way around and found it to uniform.
I have clamped my "Dial-Caliber" on the bottom of the fork and mesured the amount of RUN-OUT (.005-.006").
I have removed the Caliper and lubed the piston and slide area's.
Changed the Brake fluid to "Known" Dot 4" fluid.
Still there is a "DRAG" IN ONE AREA ? Its like the Master Cylinder is not turning loose all the way.
My point is : That drag is not conductive to the best MPG.
Do you have a similar issue ? ???
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While I'm hoping this little "exercise" in obsessing over varying mpg figures is now resolved to the OP's satisfaction, I'm also reminded of this classic case of gobbledygook from years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac7G7xOG2Ag
He's doing the best he can in his second language. How's your Hindi?
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He's doing the best he can in his second language. How's your Hindi?
Well you certainly missed my point there! :o
The "gobbledygook" I referred to was the explanation of how the EFI system worked, not his English language skills.
Maybe if you had watched the video I also attached to that post, you might have caught my drift. ;)
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Hay usasmartindian
I've had a "Warped Disk" feeling coming out of the front end for a while now. Not only feeling it at low speed but :
with the bike on the center stand and the front wheel off the ground the brake drags a lot in one spot.
I have measured the disk all the way around and found it to uniform.
I have clamped my "Dial-Caliber" on the bottom of the fork and mesured the amount of RUN-OUT (.005-.006").
I have removed the Caliper and lubed the piston and slide area's.
Changed the Brake fluid to "Known" Dot 4" fluid.
Still there is a "DRAG" IN ONE AREA ? Its like the Master Cylinder is not turning loose all the way.
My point is : That drag is not conductive to the best MPG.
Do you have a similar issue ? ???
Sorry dont seem to have this problem..seems like the wheels move freely with no brakes holding it while spinning at the least.
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One other thing to consider: as said above, in colder weather, the air is denser. This makes it slightly harder for the bike to push through. The effect will increase the faster you ride, as drag goes up with the square of speed. The effect is marginal compared to the combustion issues mentioned, but may exaggerate the problem. My (diesel) car is very economical, giving me about 55 mpg average in summer, but as soon as the cold weather comes it drops to high 40s, same journeys and driving style. If the mileage doesn’t go back up in the Spring, start to worry then.
I am resurrecting this thread rather than start a new one because I have been experiencing this exact thing, and think it's better to add to what's here already than start a new one. My Meteor was getting like 80-82mpg when I first got it in August, but my latest tank, I was a bit disappointed to find it had gone down to 72mpg, even though I tried to avoid revving it up as much (not that I do a lot anyway, but still lol). I do some freeway riding, but did when I first got it too, so haven't changed anything in that regards. But it is winter, and although it doesn't get as cold her as some other places, it is 'colder.' I will be curious to see if it goes back up this spring/summer.
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How about we all quite obsessing over fuel mileage, when, for the most part, a motorcycle is usually considered a "big boy toy" and if someone can afford to buy one, they can also afford to put fuel into it. Heck, we go out for rides to nowhere in particular, burning up fuel needlessly really and then worry about how many MPG we are getting? Makes no sense to me, unless one is investigating a possible engine problem.
Yes, there are some, a minority in North America I'm sure, that own a bike for the cheaper costs of transport and fuel mileage is a concern regarding which bike to purchase. I can understand those people wanting to track their fuel mileage and costs, but I doubt most on this forum are that poor.
OK, ducking for cover! ::)
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How about we all quite obsessing over fuel mileage, when, for the most part, a motorcycle is usually considered a "big boy toy" and if someone can afford to buy one, they can also afford to put fuel into it. Heck, we go out for rides to nowhere in particular, burning up fuel needlessly really and then worry about how many MPG we are getting? Makes no sense to me, unless one is investigating a possible engine problem.
Yes, there are some, a minority in North America I'm sure, that own a bike for the cheaper costs of transport and fuel mileage is a concern regarding which bike to purchase. I can understand those people wanting to track their fuel mileage and costs, but I doubt most on this forum are that poor.
OK, ducking for cover! ::)
I think the RE singles attract us OCD types. 😂😂
Must. Not. Start. An. Oil. Thread…….
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Yes, there are some, a minority in North America I'm sure, that own a bike for the cheaper costs of transport and fuel mileage is a concern regarding which bike to purchase. I can understand those people wanting to track their fuel mileage and costs, but I doubt most on this forum are that poor.
OK, ducking for cover! ::)
Count me as one of that minority. I'm not poor, but I am also conscious of whatever fuel savings I can achieve. And it isn't so much "obsessing" as it is just curiosity - how my mileage could vary 10mpg when I'm riding in the same exact manner. Color me curious, but things like that stand out to me, and my scientific mind asks, "But why?"
If it were to drop off another 10mpg, well, then I'm getting into dangerous territory - because I'm getting closer to the rating of a 650 and will lose one of my reasons for keeping my 350 and not upgrading! Lol ;D
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Count me as one of that minority. I'm not poor, but I am also conscious of whatever fuel savings I can achieve. And it isn't so much "obsessing" as it is just curiosity - how my mileage could vary 10mpg when I'm riding in the same exact manner. Color me curious, but things like that stand out to me, and my scientific mind asks, "But why?"
If it were to drop off another 10mpg, well, then I'm getting into dangerous territory - because I'm getting closer to the rating of a 650 and will lose one of my reasons for keeping my 350 and not upgrading! Lol ;D
Google is a good friend for enquiring minds. One example, written for autos, but many of the reasons would also apply to motorcycles. You mentioned the cooler temperatures. Big clue right there.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/factors.shtml
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Colder air is more dense, it contains more oxygen. The more oxygen in the air the more fuel is required to get the correct stoical (Steve's favorite word ;D) mix.
The FI sensors calculate all this so although you have made no changes your ECU has.
That's a basic summary. I'm no teacher.
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From a completely different angle.
My Hunter is now averaging 110mpg(UK), it has done an all time best tank of 127 & a worst of 101.
This is over 7Kkms recorded on Fuelly, it's dropping very slowly because of the initial running in period where I had regular stupid high mpg's that I no longer achieve.
Thing is my riding doesn't vary a huge amount but trying to work out milage by single tank fulls isn't very accurate, tank by tank it's up & down sometimes by quite a bit.
These bike do high milage to a small fuel tank, it's amazing how one tank a tiny bit low, next tank a tiny bit high can throw it off, easily 10mpg. I can brim my tank but if I wait I can put a bit more in...... It just isn't accurate.
The only accurate mpg is over multiple tanks, the more tanks the more accurate.
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Not sure if it's been mentuned but winter time has is def than summer time. For example winter mixture using cheaper ingredients like butane iirc ect. That leads to less mpg. Also there is more wind resistance in winter which hurts the mpg. Sure if it's a tail wind it might help.
My millage has dropped way off the last couple months
Went from low to high 80s with a 94 mph best USA gal. To low 70s. Normaly I could get right at 200 miles before low fuel light would come on. Now it's on at 160 to 170.
No black exhaust or fuel leaks. I'm fact exhaust on this bike has been the cleanest Iv ever seen. 14500 miles and still no black deposit in muffler outlet. Curse I think it's running overly lean so....
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Also I'm one of the minority who rides a little bike for economic reasons. That being I'm irt poo. See i can't even afford the d or the r.🤪
Mph is also a indicator of over all mechanical health.
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Not sure if it's been mentuned but winter time has is def than summer time. For example winter mixture using cheaper ingredients like butane iirc ect. That leads to less mpg. Also there is more wind resistance in winter which hurts the mpg. Sure if it's a tail wind it might help.
My millage has dropped way off the last couple months
Went from low to high 80s with a 94 mph best USA gal. To low 70s. Normaly I could get right at 200 miles before low fuel light would come on. Now it's on at 160 to 170.
Thanks for the post WildCard - your mileage experience mirrors mine almost exactly!
Also I'm one of the minority who rides a little bike for economic reasons. That being I'm irt poo. See i can't even afford the d or the r.🤪
Mph is also a indicator of over all mechanical health.
Again, same here. I can probably afford the d and r lol, but my other ride is a Dodge Ram that gets like 14mpg. So if I drove it all the time, I would no longer be able to afford them 😂
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Thanks for the post WildCard - your mileage experience mirrors mine almost exactly!
Again, same here. I can probably afford the d and r lol, but my other ride is a Dodge Ram that gets like 14mpg. So if I drove it all the time, I would no longer be able to afford them 😂
Hey AzKev,
Reviving an old thread but I am much the same as you! Curiosity gets the better of me and I get all geeky on these performance figures and whatnot! Same exact deal as you - used to get around 35 kmpl (82 US mpg) in summers, but it's the fall now and definitely cooler and I am getting around 30 kmpl (around 70 US mpg).
I read through this entire thread and established that it is two things in my case - colder weather and the 'wrist sensor'. Haha the latter being more at play than the former!
I have realised that the Meteor's 18hp or so available at the wheel sit quite high in the rev range (around 6000), and after having discovered this, I stay fairly high in the rev range and have delayed up shifts quite a lot - making for a rather peppy, enjoyable riding experience. But the fuel consumption reflects that, too ;D
Now as someone else pointed out - nearly ALL my rides are essentially me wasting fuel and causing global warming! So I shouldn't really care - but some of us are riders as well as geeks!
Happy riding, and stay safe!
PS: I now stay in the third gear in 30pmh (50kmph) zones! Allows for excellent control and agility!
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I used to work for a Porsche dealer and a customer complained about poor fuel consumption, the car was checked and run around for a few days and no fault was found. Still the customer wasn’t happy so a mechanic (sorry technician) went out with her to see how she drove, the result was she was changing up far too early and using too much throttle ! After a little advice the customers fuel consumption improved! It would be interesting to hear what consumption Coastrider Scotland (YouTube) gets, he revs the nuts off his !
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PS: I now stay in the third gear in 30pmh (50kmph) zones! Allows for excellent control and agility!
It is always a good idea to keep the engine operating within the power band, especially around town, when a short burst of acceleration may be needed to get you out of harm's way, like a dog running up beside the bike, or when riding on twisty mountain roads, where you need the engine's braking ability to slow down for an unexpected decreasing radius curve without needing to downshift.
Cruising along on an interstate, or a place like the autobahn, is much more suited to running a higher gear to keep the revs lower.
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It is always a good idea to keep the engine operating within the power band, especially around town, when a short burst of acceleration may be needed to get you out of harm's way, like a dog running up beside the bike, or when riding on twisty mountain roads, where you need the engine's braking ability to slow down for an unexpected decreasing radius curve without needing to downshift.
Cruising along on an interstate, or a place like the autobahn, is much more suited to running a higher gear to keep the revs lower.
Gotta love engine braking, Dexter! 😄