Unofficial Royal Enfield Community Forum
Royal Enfield Motorcycles => Bullet with the UCE engine => Topic started by: Rich Mintz on June 22, 2013, 08:52:35 pm
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Made it 250 mi from NYC to Washington DC with no problems on Wednesday.
Riding back now (about 60 mi out of Washington) and I'm noticing the chain is occasionally slipping a tooth. (Never felt it before, I'm just inferring). Remember I have no 1st gear at the moment. The slipping is happening at moments of high torque -- like when I'm starting up uphill from a stop in 2nd gear.
Being as gentle as I can to get home safe, then will check the slack.
There's more weight on the bike on the return trip (saddlebags are heavier). Does load on the bike translate to more slack in the chain?
By the way, nothing has fallen off the bike so far on this trip...
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Rich... Chain slipping or clutch slipping? Reving high and not going anywhere Type thing ?
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The only way a chain can slip is if is the sprockets are totally worn out. That is the teeth are down to nubs, I have seen them that bad! But not on a bike with the mileage you have. Even the stock chain can't tear them up that fast, although they have been known to break teeth off! Your clutch may be slipping, or the dogs that engage the other gears could be momentarily disengaging. These are the little blocks on the sides of the gears that engage the gears to determine what gear you are in, not the outer teeth. It could be caused by the rotating plate could have some bigger problems along with the pin falling out. It seems as though you need to get the beast into the shop. That gearbox seems have some serious issues!
Bare
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I stopped to inspect here in Middletown, Del, because over the past 50 miles I've found it hard to pull faster than 45mph without slipping.
It is indeed the chain. I have more than an inch of slack, and many of the teeth on the rear sprocket are worn down to nubs.
http://instagram.com/p/a4FEJcJrh6/
We adjusted chain slack about 1000 mi ago and visually inspected the sprocket at that time and everything looked normal.
I'm going to limp home gently at about 40mph (4 hrs)up US 130/US 1, park the bike, and then have a dealer look at it and figure out whats happening (and fix it)before I ride it anywhere else.
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You say the chain has over an inch of slack but didn't say how much over. With the bike on the centerstand it can have 2 inches of movement and still be acceptable.
Anyway, IMO, for the chain to tear up the rear sprocket like it did, especially after having it adjusted only 1000 miles ago is a indication of a machined caused mechaincal failure that should be covered by the warranty.
In addition to fixing your screwed up gearbox I think RE owes you a new rear sprocket/brake drum and a new chain.
Good luck on your remaining miles home.
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I'm by no means an expert on sprockets, but that looks like a defect as opposed to straight wear. When compared to the remaining teeth, it looks like the damaged teeth just sheared off and then were smoothed over by the chain slippage.
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If you look closely at the ends of the teeth, there is definite indication they broke off. The first 3 counting from left are definitely broken. 4th is hard to say from the picture. The textured peaks and valleys are from cracking off, not from wear.
Glad you didn't take 95 and the turnpike, you'd get mowed down.
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Exactly what happened to me 1000 miles after a service. The dealer who serviced it charged me 300 for new chain and sprocket. Great guy. Should have been a warranty he compared it to a tyre. Something that wears out. Bloody moron.
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Rich: Maybe its my eyes but I swear the chain and sprocket looks like a different metal than what's on my iron.. I was surprised that you went on a long trip like that with 1 st gear out of alignment. When you went on your last trip from N.Y.C. to DC and back again a month ago, did u oil the chain during any of your stops? Who did the chain adjustment a 1k miles ago ?
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Those teeth on the sprocket are, without a doubt, broken. I would definitely have the Dealer tackle this one. Don't you only have like 3K miles on that bike Rich?
Scottie
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I'm suprised you are riding it after finding that metal piece in your cranckcase, & lost first gear. You are asking for more trouble by not getting the problems completely sorted before riding. In fact the warrantee may not cover abuse, which a dealer could claim, if they knew you kept riding after discovering a problem. Machines don't heal themselves, they only get worse when one component is not functioning properly (moving off in second gear WILL WEAR THE CLUTCH) Clutch wear causes slipping.
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When these chains go, they go quickly and end up with much wider spaces between the teeth then is acceptable. The chain then crawls up on top of the teeth and knock them off rather quickly. When my chain got the the point of adjusting it every 200 miles or less, then it went. How you rode it 1000 miles without checking it is beyond me!. Mine didn't make it to the first thousand without being adjusted, then it quickly dropped into the hundreds. When I took it off I pulled several of the links and look into the pin holes. The bushing inside them were all breaking up.
I've been warning you guys, literally for years, to get rid of those OEM chains before they destroy your sprockets. Those chains are JUNK! Unfortunately, this one didn't make it!
You only have an inch of play because half the chain is riding up on the nubs, taking
the slack away. The bike with a good chain in adjustment should have 1-1/2 to 2" of play on the centerstand.
Bare
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I don't know what everybody does or doesn't do to their chains. Redcat had 9,000 mi. on his chain and the only reason he changed it was he was installing a new tire and checking the brakes at the time. It's in his shed now as a spare just in case, it has no real heavy wear on it. ERC
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ERC: I don't get it either, I occasionally wipe the crud off with a dry rag and hit it with my Type4/oil mix. .Alot of the times I get lazy and just let the motor oil that occasionally weeps from the bottom create a extra layer of goop...I swear that OEM chain did me okay to the point I order another one and threw it on at the 10.5k mark....I'll be curious to see if not changing out the sprockets creates a shorter lifespan for either..In retrospect, I don't ride like the wind either and just mutter along on this fine machine...GM
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Thanks all for the helpful comments. I feel well taken care of by this forum! A few responses:
- I don't really care whether the sprocket is a warranty repair or not. When the time comes I'll let Kevin decide. I love the bike regardless, and when I bought it I knew I wasn't buying a precision-engineered Japanese machine, but a piece of history with a modernized powerplant. (FYI, my engine is running absolutely flawlessly at 4,000 miles -- it's the physical infrastructure of the bike, like the drivetrain, where the warts are showing.)
- I understand why pulling away from a stop in 2nd gear for a long time would strain the sprocket teeth (both directly, and indirectly via clutch wear). This is my first motorcycle and I'm still learning good riding and care habits. If CMW decides this is my fault, I'll take my lumps and pay for a new sprocket. Kevin deals very fairly with us.
- I made it home safely last night, although it took hours. I cruised along for about 70 miles at 30-35mph (mostly on the shoulder of I-295 -- when it started to get dark, I moved over onto US 130 for safety reasons), riding as steadily as possible (because pulling on the throttle slipped the chain). FYI, on that tank, riding almost steadily at 35mph for 70 miles, I got the best MPG of my entire 4,000 miles with the bike -- almost 80 (!).
- Then I realized that the chain wasn't going to snap -- that the forces keeping the chain in its plane were strong enough even with broken teeth -- and decided to just tolerate the clattering and ride somewhat more normally. I did the last 50 miles at 45-55mph, more or less with the flow of traffic. There was a sweet spot at around 35mph where I could cruise along (on flat terrain) without slipping the chain as long as I didn't torque the throttle too much. And I discovered that once the bike got above 50mph in moving traffic, it would also cruise without slipping the chain. By the time I got to the outskirts of NYC, I had almost forgotten I had a problem -- I rode the Pulaski Skyway and through the Holland Tunnel almost like normal.
- This does NOT mean that I will ride the bike anymore before it gets serviced. It's parked in the garage. The only riding I'll do will be to whatever dealer I can get to take it in next week.
Thanks again to all of you. The fact that I have this forum to rely on helps me feel safer on the road.
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I'm very glad to hear you made it home. :)
As we were all cussing and discussing your problems I kept wondering, "Where's Rich? He should have been back by now unless he's picking up pieces of his chain from the roadway behind him and trying to stick them back together." ;D
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Id be interested to know what you pay for the new sprocket and chain.
I was told after my new sprocket was installed that id need to adjust it after 200kms. That was bollocks. Ive done about 3000 since then and the slack/tension is right. Unsure of what new chain ive got. the dealer wouldnt tell me - except that "its a better chain" It def seems to be a better chain, but as he wouldnt tell me, i have no idea what it is.
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Unfortunately I have been in this position. Too much wear on a crappy RE chain equals chain slip, shearing off the tips of the sprockets. $300 worth of sprockets and labor and a $100 O-ring chain..and I'm MUCH happier.
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I got sprockets recently: $70 for the front, $75 for the rear plus the chain. On my last bike it was very easy to change the sprockets, the RE is a bear by comparison. Not terribly difficult, just a pain. The right side engine cover needs to come off and you need to remove a 46mm nut in the front. In the rear, you need to remove the brake assembly. Have a manual handy if you go at it with your maintenance buddies.
Scott
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My bike is ready! I'm getting it back next week. New sprockets and chain, routine maintenance, and they fixed my transmission problem under warranty. If I understood them on the phone correctly, the pin that came out in my oil was not the problem -- instead, one of the nuts and bolts holding the clutch assembly together had fallen out.
Thanks, Kevin (if you're listening), for hooking me up with a reputable and competent dealer.
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Good deal! :)
Scottie
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Good news, Rich! Gosh, I'm sure wondering now, what was that pin? I hope they sorted that one out, too!
BTW, don't worry, Kevin is listening...
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They looked all through the transmission and bearings and couldn't find a pin missing. (I'd given them the actual pin I found.). So it's still a mystery. Some things aren't meant to be known!
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Oh Rich, you have no idea how funny and how common this is. Well, funny now you have it sorted!
Robert & REnfield. 8) 8) 8)
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Glad you're sorted and that you'll be back on the road soon. Glad you've got a reputable dealer now too :)
Scott
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Alas, it was not to be. Turns out my shifting problem was reduced, but not eliminated -- bike shifts very smoothly but still won't shift below second gear. So dealer is holding onto the bike for a couple more weeks, and I'm on the train back to NYC with my helmet under my arm.
http://instagram.com/p/ccB_AWJriY/
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Ask the shop to call CMW directly. The staff can point them to likely causes and maybe save them some time and headache. Sorry you're off the road again :(
Scott