[Racer57]

Going to buy an 2022 Interceptor. Planning on Dealer installing S&S cam, air filter, muffler and wanting the hi comp pistons. But even though S&S recommends Power Commander they don't have a map. Dealer contacted "Hitchcock and they dont either with the unit they sell. There isn't any dyno available in my area and its stupid to  install hi comp pistons without adjusting timing/ignition.  Is there anyone that does sell a map ?

[AzCal Retred]

The factory RE 650 twin makes 45 HP. The 650 Kawasaki 650 Ninja twin makes about 70 HP. The splendid YZF600/4 makes 100 HP. You can buy a functional, used Ninja of various displacements or YZF600 for about $3K. It's highly unlikely you'll get a 60%-100% HP boost out of a cam and HP pistons. What exactly is the point of spending $6K for a new machine and another $3K for speed parts & labor to end up with something not as fast as a $3K used 650 Ninja or YZF600? Besides - isn't the point of a new bike that it has a warranty?  What happens to that with aftermarket cams, exhaust, pistons, and ECU go-fast reflashing?

The 6 speed 45 HP Interceptor twin is a brilliant piece of kit as is. Competent, flexible power, comfortable, multi-functional. If you had a thrashed $1,500 one and were going to play with it, adding $2K worth of speed doodads yourself in your garage would start to make more sense. Buying a new one and throwing 50% of the purchase price more into it....blowing up the warrantee you just paid for...now you are into Supersport and Ducati money but without the power and with more weight and no safety net.

A well ridden Interceptor with good shocks, good tires and maybe a fork kit will embarrass lots of riders on better equipment in the twisties. Even painfully stock they are very good. If you want lots more power, that's easier & cheaper to come by elsewhere. But if you want a very nice general purpose motorcycle, a new Interceptor is already there.

[Racer57]

Your argument against engine upgrades can very easily be used against handling upgrades. I'm wanting to upgrade the engine because I want too and can.

The factory RE 650 twin makes 45 HP. The 650 Kawasaki 650 Ninja twin makes about 70 HP. The splendid YZF600/4 makes 100 HP. You can buy a functional, used Ninja of various displacements or YZF600 for about $3K. It's highly unlikely you'll get a 60%-100% HP boost out of a cam and HP pistons. What exactly is the point of spending $6K for a new machine and another $3K for speed parts & labor to end up with something not as fast as a $3K used 650 Ninja or YZF600? Besides - isn't the point of a new bike that it has a warranty?  What happens to that with aftermarket cams, exhaust, pistons, and ECU go-fast reflashing?

The 6 speed 45 HP Interceptor twin is a brilliant piece of kit as is. Competent, flexible power, comfortable, multi-functional. If you had a thrashed $1,500 one and were going to play with it, adding $2K worth of speed doodads yourself in your garage would start to make more sense. Buying a new one and throwing 50% of the purchase price more into it....blowing up the warrantee you just paid for...now you are into Supersport and Ducati money but without the power and with more weight and no safety net.

A well ridden Interceptor with good shocks, good tires and maybe a fork kit will embarrass lots of riders on better equipment in the twisties. Even painfully stock they are very good. If you want lots more power, that's easier & cheaper to come by elsewhere. But if you want a very nice general purpose motorcycle, a new Interceptor is already there.

[AzCal Retred]

" Even painfully stock they are very good. "
"Better" shocks are maybe $150, IF you even need them. Fork oil is likely $10 a pint or just use ATF. Cams & pistons cost real money and don't bolt on in 15 minutes. Handling upgrades in my experience generally mean you don't fall off quite as often. Better tires are just SOP if you plan on generating real speed. Grippier brake pucks & shoes are cheap insurance. From what I've seen in my racing days, maybe 5% of riders are actually able to push decent stock hardware to it's limits in other than in a straight line. The race track tells the real story, the street is a very random environment.

If money isn't a criteria, why not bolt on the 865 kit, get some real parallel twin grunt? You'll be tuning the ECU anyway.

[Racer57]

" Even painfully stock they are very good. "
"Better" shocks are maybe $150, IF you even need them. Fork oil is likely $10 a pint or just use ATF. Cams & pistons cost real money and don't bolt on in 15 minutes. Handling upgrades in my experience generally mean you don't fall off quite as often. Better tires are just SOP if you plan on generating real speed. Grippier brake pucks & shoes are cheap insurance. From what I've seen in my racing days, maybe 5% of riders are actually able to push decent stock hardware to it's limits in other than in a straight line. The race track tells the real story, the street is a very random environment.

If money isn't a criteria, why not bolt on the 865 kit, get some real parallel twin grunt? You'll be tuning the ECU anyway.

I'd love to get the 865. But read my original post.

[AzCal Retred]

Planning on Dealer installing S&S cam, air filter, muffler and wanting the hi comp pistons.
I'm wanting to upgrade the engine because I want too and can.
Dealer contacted Hitchcock and they don't either with the unit they sell.

The Power Commander has been used by many here, there's lots of "tribal knowledge" available. Looks like the dealer you have anticipated doing the mechanical work can't/won't do the tuning part? So you are in the position of becoming the tuner. Is this a deal breaker? Installing new pistons & cams is all the same work as bolting on the 865 top end. Using the Power Commander to tune the system for the new speed parts looks to be an owner task, but others have done it successfully.

So if you are searching for performance, can afford the package and are willing to learn the Power Commander, Hitchcock's say clearly they have a "suitable base map". The big bore kit yields about 65 HP vs the 40-45 or so of a stock engine, pretty much starting from the bottom of the rev range. You are paying the dealer for all the work necessary already, it's just $2K more in parts and you'll have all there is to get. In any event it looks like you'll have to do the Power Commander yourself.

https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/44214?cont_page=accessory-shop/cylinder
PART No. 90104; BIGBORE KIT 865cc to convert 650 Interceptor + 650 Continental GT. Supplied with ready machined cylinder barrels; £1,675.00
BIGBORE KIT 865cc to convert 650 Interceptor + 650 Continental GT. Supplied with ready machined cylinder barrels
This is the bigbore conversion by S&S Cycle ready fitted in to a set of cylinder. It converts the 650cc twins to 865cc by taking the standard 78mm bore to 90mm whilst raising the compression ration from 9.5:1 to 11:1
This is a bolt on set of machined cylinder barrels with matched pistons ready to fit.
A great improvement to both torque and horsepower
Before fitting the bigbore kit you should look at replacing the front exhaust pipes and silencers for a less restrictive version.
With fitment of this kit, the fuelling will need to be controlled, we recommend the use of a Dynojet Power Commander for which we can supply a suitable base map.
To maximise the benefit of the bigbore kit you need to consider the following:
Clutch upgrade
Performance Camshaft
Free flow exhaust system
Air Filter Retainer
We would also recommend replacing the 8 cylinder head bolts, part number 575620.
 

[axman88]

My brother created his own map for the Power Commander V that came with his 2nd hand Kawa. Vulcan 1500.   He did that because the bike had come with a map that was so rich that the exhaust stank of raw gas.  That map had been professionally created at considerable expense ( he got the receipts with the bike), on a dynomometer, at a local speed shop.

I don't have one of these gadgets myself, but I did download Dynojet's free software, played with it, and thought it was pretty straightforward.  My understanding is that, if one puts the baseline value into every block ( either one or zero, I don't recall which), one would then be riding with un-tweaked, RE factory ECM settings, and could proceed to modify parameter values as they saw fit.  Seems like starting with factory values should be a safe, if unspectacular, starting point.

My brother created his map by trial and error, over a period of weeks, taking note of performance, rideability and fuel economy.  Starting with the existing map, and consulting a generic free base map, he progressively leaned out blocks on the map until he felt responsiveness suffer.  He also said that as he tracked fuel economy, he initially made large improvements, but then noticed diminished returns as he got closer to the sweet spot.  He was MUCH happier, in every way, with what he made, than what the previous owner had paid a pro. tuner to create, and said that both rideability and fuel economy were substantially improved.

I understand that some folks have created or modified their PC maps using feedback from a wideband 02 sensor kit.  https://www.summitracing.com/parts/avm-30-4110

Or, perhaps the Autotune add-on?:  https://www.dynojet.com/autotune/

[Guaire]

I have used AutoTune to fix the PCV for the UCE. The included map is a ballpark estimate. To get an accurate for your machine, you'll need the AutoTune for sure. Otherwise, take it to a dyno shop and they will re-map it for you. At that point the AutoTune is a bargain.

[James.]

Personally I would go and buy a Triumph T100 and save myself a lot of time and energy and still have a warranty.

[Guaire]

BTW, you can unplug the PCV at anytime and the ECU will go back to the stock map.
Warranty; no problem.
Also, by keeping your RE, you won't add ten stone of weight.

[12many]

Some of the you elderly in body and mind may look at every endeavor through the prism of "saving time and money" and that is perfectly fine. But the guy wants an Interceptor and to modify it. The amount of time and money invested being too little, just right or too much is 100% subjective. It's a hobby, a passion. Wide open to interpretation. Leave a bike as is or throw suitcases full of cash over the rail, money under the bridge! And those Triumphs? They are bloated fugly looking bikes. The Interceptor is a much better looking bike, period. IMO.

[James.]

Some of the you elderly in body and mind may look at every endeavor through the prism of "saving time and money" and that is perfectly fine. But the guy wants an Interceptor and to modify it. The amount of time and money invested being too little, just right or too much is 100% subjective. It's a hobby, a passion. Wide open to interpretation. Leave a bike as is or throw suitcases full of cash over the rail, money under the bridge! And those Triumphs? They are bloated fugly looking bikes. The Interceptor is a much better looking bike, period. IMO.

No age doesn't come into it buddy boy.21year old me would be thinking exactly the same.Never understood why someone takes a  new bike and starts immediately to try improve power/performance when there's plenty more out there

[James.]

BTW, you can unplug the PCV at anytime and the ECU will go back to the stock map.
Warranty; no problem.
Also, by keeping your RE, you won't add ten stone of weight.

I heard just recently and I can't verify at the moment that RE had been pulling info of the ECU on warranty claims that gives mph during the  first 1500 miles and more.I want to talk to my dealer about this and will let you know.

[12many]

No age doesn't come into it buddy boy.21year old me would be thinking exactly the same.Never understood why someone takes a  new bike and starts immediately to try improve power/performance when there's plenty more out there

Never understood you say? That's all on you sir.

[James.]

BTW, you can unplug the PCV at anytime and the ECU will go back to the stock map.
Warranty; no problem.
Also, by keeping your RE, you won't add ten stone of weight.

It's heavier but your way off the mark with 10 stone.

[Richard230]

I heard just recently and I can't verify at the moment that RE had been pulling info of the ECU on warranty claims that gives mph during the  first 1500 miles and more.I want to talk to my dealer about this and will let you know.

I don't know about RE, but I have heard from a Triumph dealer that Triumph does that just in case someone blows a new engine. Of course, it might be a new EU regulation. You never know what they will think up next. 

[gizzo]

No age doesn't come into it buddy boy.21year old me would be thinking exactly the same.Never understood why someone takes a  new bike and starts immediately to try improve power/performance when there's plenty more out there

Fair point but it's your loss. Even if it's not what you would do, taking some time out to understand what motivates other people might broaden your horizon a bit.

Did 21 year old you go and buy a car/bike that fit your needs to the letter? That makes me sad to think so.

If I had all the money I've wasted and cars and bikes, I'd waste it on cars and bikes.

[James.]

I don't like wasting money or time for that matter.😊

[gizzo]

I don't like wasting money or time for that matter.😊

And yet, here you are....

[James.]

And yet, here you are....

Happy new year 😆

[gizzo]

Happy new year 😆

You too mate.

[12many]

It simply hot rodding. It’s a hobby. A passion. There’s countless reasons, all valid, for how little or how much one cares to spend (time and money) on any hobby or passion. Most people that like to modify are what you call “gear heads” They can’t leave anything alone. They want more. Not via another vehicle. They want more out of what they have. They enjoy working on, changing things, seeing what they can do with it. It’s a challenge. Money and time goes with the territory. When you learn over time about what it takes to increase performance with something and then set about putting your time, money, skills and knowledge to work seeing what you can do and the results, it’s usually very rewarding. It’s what drives “gear-heads”
 Many here I’m certain understand why someone might be content with something as is. Could be any number of reasons. Some are gear-heads and some are not. But we all like to ride and I assume like to ride RE.

[Richard230]

That reminds me of my son-in-law, who spent over $6K USD 3 years ago buying a well used 1988 Honda CRX, then replacing the engine with another used one, replacing the automatic transmission with a manual one, rebuilding the suspension and brakes, rebuilding the old engine and then selling it for $300, tinting the windows, installing a new exhaust system, refurbishing the interior, and performing various other tasks, sometimes over and over. After all of that work and expense the CRX is still a crappy car and it still runs doesn't run as well as much newer cars and is certainly not as safe to drive. But it seems to make him happy - especially when it remains running for a couple of months before something else breaks and the car has to be towed home. 

[Racer57]

No age doesn't come into it buddy boy.21year old me would be thinking exactly the same.Never understood why someone takes a  new bike and starts immediately to try improve power/performance when there's plenty more out there

Is your bike exactly like it came from the factory ?

[beagle]

I've got the 650 High comp pistons, S&S cams, iridium plugs, high flow intake and exhaust. It came with a powertronic tuner and a canned map from the dealer,  but no bugger wants to dyno and tune it properly.... Overall the whole exercise was a disappointment. It was a COVID lock down boredom moment. The bike has a bit more grunt, but the ignition timing is a problem. I keep it at least -2degrees to safeguard the motor. It flies at 0 degrees but the possibility of blowing the crowns is high, so it has extra torque but not the zip. Would I do it again...probably no, maybe cams only.