Author Topic: Starting Probs and spark plug/coil  (Read 2620 times)

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AzCal Retred

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Reply #15 on: May 15, 2021, 04:08:04 am
Here is a diagram I made for another member.

If the points are opening & closing, and you have a (+) to the coil, the low side of the winding grounds thru the points when they close, creating a magnetic field in the primary (low voltage) winding. When they open the magnetic field collapses, and a spark is generated on the coil secondary (high voltage) winding.

There is no need for guesswork or frustration.

Key OFF. Take out the spark plug. Open the wire to the distributor at the blade connector, read Ohms to ground thru it to the distributor as you rotate the engine through the compression (power) stroke. When you read the points, the Ohms will go to under one Ohm when closed, near infinite when opened. Any readings other than that need investigation. The condenser is open circuit to DC.

Leave the distributor wire open. Lift the (+) feeding the coil. Turn the ignition key ON. Read the ohms of the lead coming in to the distributor at the open blade connector from the coil to ground; it has to be "infinite". If not, find out why. The distributor is isolated electrically, if there is a connection to ground something is either failed or mis-wired.

Turn the ignition key OFF. Again, read the ohms of the lead coming in to the distributor from the coil to ground. The key switch grounds the coil on most of these machines to force them off. Keeping the coil grounded prevents a spark from happening. Grounded is good in this situation.

Lay the coil (+) back down. With key ON, again read the VOLTAGE to ground on the wire coming in to the distributor. It should be 12.5 - 13.5 VDC. Key OFF - back to zero.

Hook up distributor wire blade connector. Key ON, kick over and verify a spark at the exposed plug center electrode to the side electrode. Anything electrical can be failed right out of the box, don't assume.

If you have spark & compression, all you need is fuel. Use some starting fluid to get a "chuff" out of the old girl. If it chuffs, start in on the carburetor. Disassemble, remove the various jets, blow out all passages with WD-40. Clean as necessary, no grit, crud or varnish allowed.

Do things methodically, a step at a time, PROVE to yourself what you think you know. If you see a solid spark, and know it's at the right time, and you prove it has compression, and the carb is clean[/u ] & properly adjusted, it rather has to run.

A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


Adrian II

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Reply #16 on: May 15, 2021, 02:47:46 pm
Just check the polarity of your electrical system, I'm pretty certain the older UK-built Bullets were positive earth/ground, as were the earlier Indian-built Bullets, yours might be from before the time the factory switched over to negative earth/ground, if that's still the original wiring.

A.
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axman88

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Reply #17 on: May 15, 2021, 11:20:12 pm
Besides the ammeter issue, is there a reason that you suspect an ignition issue?

Fuel delivery issues are much more common failure modes in general, and resulting from sitting for months specifically.

Have you checked spark with the plug out and in contact with the head?

Have you tried giving the intake a shot of starting fluid?


ddavidv

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Reply #18 on: May 16, 2021, 12:09:45 pm
The 1973 I worked on was negative earth.
2023 Scram 411, 2007 five speed 'Deluxe', 1964 750 Interceptor


Adrian II

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Reply #19 on: May 16, 2021, 08:41:40 pm
Original wiring or later electrics added during restoration?

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


mitchell

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Reply #20 on: May 18, 2021, 01:58:47 am
Solved!

So, a mechanic friend told me to check the points, which was my next stop anyway, and when I pulled off the cover and was playing around with them, I noticed the wire coming from the coil(?) was looking a bit suss. I pulled on it a little and...it slipped right out of it's heat shrink casing. A broken #$%^& wire. Rewired it and...first kick start!

I just knew it was nothing serious but this bike got it's revenge for neglect, I suppose.

I thank you guys soooooo much for your help and I am more than elated to provide closure to this...until the next headache.

The adventure continues.

Mitchell
anything can happen.
1972 350 Bullet Standard


AzCal Retred

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Reply #21 on: May 18, 2021, 03:20:49 pm
Bullets like to test you to see if you are serious. Stay attentive, feed it ritual sacrifices of parts, lubricants and blood from skinned knuckles and it'll reward you with hours of Thumping-Down-the-Road bliss. But stay attentive... ;D
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


mitchell

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Reply #22 on: May 25, 2021, 06:11:28 pm
AzCal, you got that right!

Thanks again everyone
anything can happen.
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tooseevee

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Reply #23 on: May 25, 2021, 10:25:13 pm
Bullets like to test you to see if you are serious. Stay attentive, feed it ritual sacrifices of parts, lubricants and blood from skinned knuckles and it'll reward you with hours of Thumping-Down-the-Road bliss. But stay attentive... ;D

          'REs are the bikes that try men's souls'  :) and heal their troubled minds.
RI USA '08 Black AVL Classic.9.8:1 ACEhead/manifold/canister. TM32/Open bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


AzCal Retred

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Reply #24 on: May 26, 2021, 12:21:02 am
In Japan, Tsukumogami  are "household spirits" that inhabit your possessions. My Bullet seems to have this in spades. Krasny Oktobyr suddenly stopped shifting well. The clutch started acting up. Cursory examination indicated a bad "sprocket bearing", So tools were ordered. Disassembly of the Primary revealed the spacer behind the sprocket was chewed up. The P.O. had installed an 18T sprocket and not tightened everything down properly. A new spacer, gaskets, other odd bits winged their way from England. Some crystalized gasket removal, hours of careful assembly, a new drive chain & 17T sprocket, a "buffer" adjuster for the primary chain were added to the mix.

After this sacrifice in time, parts, oils & attention, he rewarded me with a nice 65 mile jaunt thru the Sierras, shifting better than ever, running strong on his recently new forged piston & alloy barrel. Problems seem to occur in sequence with him, rather than dumping multiple failures on me. Apparently he finally needed this "thorn" removed from his "paw" enough to let me know I needed to get with the program & fix it now, after running in that configuration every since I gained possession a couple years back. It's a good give & take. However you like to think of it, Bullets respond well to "mechanically sympathetic" riders. Good Hunting - ACR -
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


Paul W

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Reply #25 on: May 26, 2021, 09:39:42 am
The P.O. had installed an 18T sprocket and not tightened everything down properly.

There's the problem. The bike was designed in UK so everything has to be tightened UP.
Paul W.


AzCal Retred

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Reply #26 on: May 26, 2021, 05:12:36 pm
It's true, isn't it, that Whitworth sizing was actually implemented in 1937 to confuse the Hun if he chose to land in "this sceptered isle"?  ;)
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


Paul W

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Reply #27 on: May 26, 2021, 05:54:48 pm
Dunno about that but it confused everybody else!
Paul W.