[SouthernShandyDrinker]

Hi, Forum virgin here.
I've only cover 350 miles from new and I'm very happy with the bike apart from one small irritation.
At low speed when filtering using very small throttle openings the bike can just stall (over 10 times to date).
When stationary the bike is ticking over at 1200 rpm but I have noticed that if I blip the throttle a tiny bit to about 1500 rpm the revs drop like a stone to about 800 rpm every time.
Combine this with the merest hint of clutch engagement as when filtering and it can stall in situations when you want total control.
I feel that its probably a Euro 5 issue with fueling but none the less has anyone got any advice.

[lucky phil]

Hi, Forum virgin here.
I've only cover 350 miles from new and I'm very happy with the bike apart from one small irritation.
At low speed when filtering using very small throttle openings the bike can just stall (over 10 times to date).
When stationary the bike is ticking over at 1200 rpm but I have noticed that if I blip the throttle a tiny bit to about 1500 rpm the revs drop like a stone to about 800 rpm every time.
Combine this with the merest hint of clutch engagement as when filtering and it can stall in situations when you want total control.
I feel that its probably a Euro 5 issue with fueling but none the less has anyone got any advice.

Simple thing is it may be idling a little low. Mine shows around 1400 rpm on the tacho at idle from memory and I think others here have remarked on the highish idle. It should be able to idle at around 1200 rpm just fine but who knows how accurate the tacho is. The only thing I would say is if it's only just developed this trait I'd do the first service valve clearance check early. If you have a very tight valve it can cause idling issues. I also found when I pulled the throttle body cover off that the small rubber boot on the end of the opening cable adjuster had fallen off and slid down the cable and was jamming in the throttle cam. I would expect this to cause high idling though.
Has it always had this issue?

Ciao 

[NVDucati]

Hi, Forum virgin here.
I've only cover 350 miles from new and I'm very happy with the bike apart from one small irritation.
At low speed when filtering using very small throttle openings the bike can just stall (over 10 times to date).
When stationary the bike is ticking over at 1200 rpm but I have noticed that if I blip the throttle a tiny bit to about 1500 rpm the revs drop like a stone to about 800 rpm every time.
Combine this with the merest hint of clutch engagement as when filtering and it can stall in situations when you want total control.
I feel that its probably a Euro 5 issue with fueling but none the less has anyone got any advice.

I don't know / don't have an answer. But just to make sure I understand the symptom...
The bike idles at 1200
If you momentarily blip the throttle to 1500 and close the throttle the RPM drops but does not stop at the original 1200 and continues to drop to 800. (every time)
Is that an accurate re-statement?

[SouthernShandyDrinker]

Yes that correct. It has had it's first service and I did point this issue out to the dealer and they had no answer. I can understand their response to a degree as mine was the first Euro5 to comeback for a first service (£264) so until it becomes a trend maybe then there will be a bit more dealer investigation.
I have thought as a temporary fix as you suggested increasing the idle speed a touch but unsure what to look for as nothing jumps out as an adjuster.
The W800 that I sold to get the Interceptor had a visible knurled knob that controlled the idle.
Could you point me in the right direction for the adjuster.
In every other measurable way the Interceptor is a better riders bike than the W800, which I loved. Add to the catalogue
of aftermarket parts and general enthusiasm for the brand and I was hooked. Here's to many year with Enfield.
Thanks for your help.       

[NVDucati]

Yes that correct. It has had it's first service and I did point this issue out to the dealer and they had no answer. I can understand their response to a degree as mine was the first Euro5 to comeback for a first service (£264) so until it becomes a trend maybe then there will be a bit more dealer investigation.
I have thought as a temporary fix as you suggested increasing the idle speed a touch but unsure what to look for as nothing jumps out as an adjuster.
The W800 that I sold to get the Interceptor had a visible knurled knob that controlled the idle.
Could you point me in the right direction for the adjuster.
In every other measurable way the Interceptor is a better riders bike than the W800, which I loved. Add to the catalogue
of aftermarket parts and general enthusiasm for the brand and I was hooked. Here's to many year with Enfield.
Thanks for your help.     

Welcome to the forum. I'm willing to guess that your issue is where the electronic and mechanical worlds meet. Once you hve established that you have at least some slack in the throttle cables, it seems that the junction between those two elements is the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS). On page 601 of the pre-EU5 shop manual speaks to this.
"4. ThrottlePositionSensor
A Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) is used to monitor the position of the throttle operation and is located on the butter y spindle so that it can directly monitor the position of the throttle. The sensor is a potentiometer type and therefore provides a variable resistance depending upon the position of the butter y valve and hence throttle position can be sensed by the ECU. The sensor signal is used by the ECU as an input to its control system. The ignition timing and fuel injection timing (and potentially other parameters) are altered depending upon the position of the throttle, and also depending on the rate of change of the position.
The ECU uses the throttle valve position to know:
• Engine mode: Idle, Part Throttle, Wide-Open Throttle.
• Air-fuel ratio correction.
• Acceleration/ Deceleration correction."

You didn't say if the dealer used their scan tool on your bike.
Am I right in guessing that you are in the UK? And if so then you must drive past Harris Performance every day on the way to the shops. 

[supercub]

There are some small vacuum hoses that can easily get pulled off of the intakes, you may want to check all hoses and tubing for damage and proper fitting. If all is fine, I would suggest bringing it to a different dealer for diagnosis as it sounds like an an intake air leak. It is doubtfull that this is E5 related, at worse, the bike would have less power all around, not a definite stumble.

[zimmemr]

There are some small vacuum hoses that can easily get pulled off of the intakes, you may want to check all hoses and tubing for damage and proper fitting. If all is fine, I would suggest bringing it to a different dealer for diagnosis as it sounds like an an intake air leak. It is doubtfull that this is E5 related, at worse, the bike would have less power all around, not a definite stumble.

Good suggestion here. Look for a disconnected MAP sensor hose. It should be attached to a nipple on the left throttle body. It's very easy to accidently disconnnect it when removing the valve cover, which will create a small vacuum leak. The symptoms will be as you describe and the leak isn't large enough to set the CEL. It's a pain in the ass to install it without removing the tank but you can do it.

[SouthernShandyDrinker]

How did you guess, I pop into Harris every day for tea and cake.
I'm not sure what they did during the service, there's an element of trust in that you hope they've gone through logical processes but unless your watching you'll never know.
I'm about to have a look for any of the aspects a couple of the other posters have suggested and see if there is any improvements then I'll some more tea and cake.

Cheers.
   

[NVDucati]

How did you guess, I pop into Harris every day for tea and cake.
I'm not sure what they did during the service, there's an element of trust in that you hope they've gone through logical processes but unless your watching you'll never know.
I'm about to have a look for any of the aspects a couple of the other posters have suggested and see if there is any improvements then I'll some more tea and cake.

Cheers.

SouthernShandyDrinker , are you saying that this did not happen until after that first service?
If that is true ... then the hose that supercub and zimmemr mention  moves straight to the top of the list.

[supercub]

My bike rides at 1500 at startup and then drops down to 1200 after warming up. I can see where it would stumble at 800 as it has to overcome the flywheel on a 270 deg. Crank.

[SouthernShandyDrinker]

My bike rides at 1500 at startup and then drops down to 1200 after warming up. I can see where it would stumble at 800 as it has to overcome the flywheel on a 270 deg. Crank.

This is the way I'm starting to think. This stumble has been noticeable from new. However, after going through and checking all the possibility's that have been offered on the forum and finding it all okay I went out for a ride to see if I could get it to stumble and cutout under different circumstances. This is my findings.
If I slowing down for a stop light in 1st gear closed throttle at just over walking pace using the small amount of engine breaking showing 1500ish rpm and pull the clutch leaver in as I come to a standstill, then the revs dropped to 800 rpm in the same way as when I was blip-ping the throttle to 1500rpm then it drops to 800 rpm and occasionally stalls. I did this slowing down a couple of times and it stalled on one of the occasions.
So I think its maybe a flywheel mass and or a more restrictive exhaust system on the Euro5.
Only problem is how to confirm this.       

[whippers]

The idle speed when warm is 1200 +/- 80 rpm. This is pretty high actually. So I don't understand how you can blip the throttle to 800rpm.  The only way to do that should be to load the engine like moving off at idle with some rear brake on or similar. 

[SouthernShandyDrinker]

The idle speed when warm is 1200 +/- 80 rpm. This is pretty high actually. So I don't understand how you can blip the throttle to 800rpm.  The only way to do that should be to load the engine like moving off at idle with some rear brake on or similar.

Thanks for the heads up. I put it down to being late and not previewing what I've written. Hopefully it makes more sense now.

[lucky phil]

Thanks for the heads up. I put it down to being late and not previewing what I've written. Hopefully it makes more sense now.

As mentioned in a previous post and a good idea is to check all the vacuum hoses are connected to the throttle body. One in particular has been left off on more than one occasion after tank off maintenance. The idle on these engines is controlled by a stepper motor from the ECU and idle speed and the null position of the TPS with relation to the throttle blade position will also be done via the ECU on the factory tuning and diagnosis equipment although you may be able to use aftermarket units I have seen advertised to accomplish this.
Older style motorcycle EFI had adjustable TPS's and you could set the null position with the throttle blades completely shut via a simple multimetre measuring a Millivolt target. Generally around 150mv closed and 5 volts full throttle. Modern EFI as the RE has non physically adjustable TPS so it's done via the diagnostic equipment. As you said some comparative info from another Euro 5 model would be handy but it seems your bike may have an issue OR a faulty idle stepper motor on throttle bodies. A slow to respond idle stepper motor isn't an unheard thing and the stepper motor is cheap and easy to replace. One would be around $100 US or even less going on English prices.
Any half competent dealer mechanic should be able to replace the stepper motor and reset the idle in around an hour.
Having said all this I'm not sure I ride any bike the same way as you do. I generally don't change down to first coming to a stop but roll up to the stopped point in second and by the time I'm at walking pace I've slipped the bike into neutral from 2nd gear so I don't have the engine pulling the revs down to a low rpm and then whipping the clutch in. I've probably got the clutch disengaged by 10kph and am selecting neutral. Maybe I'm not sure but it might be your riding style that's contributing in that the idle stepper motor can't react fast enough to the revs being pulled down to below it's idle setting then it needs to react. Try my technique and see if it does the same as your style. Remember the indicated Idle speed and the actual idle speed may be a little bit different. I've seen them 150 rpm different between the actual and indicated on a few different makes of twins. What software is your bike running? Go to your bike and with the ignition OFF push and hold the trip reset button and wait 10 seconds. A code will appear such as P-1-04 which is my bikes code. It only appears briefly so be ready to note it down. I'd be interested to see what your software is. 

Ciao
     

[supercub]

These bikes are happy when the revs are kept up, always in a gear position where you can roll the throttle to accelerate quickly if needed.