[Chasfield]

Every time I open the headlight of my 500 Classic I think to myself, "gotta rewire that bike sometime. I could make it twice as neat, lose half those wires and two thirds of those %#@ &# crimp connectors."

I would do it like this:

1 - Junk the AC lighting and go to all DC. Can a 4 wire alternator be used (fully)? - if not buy a 3 wire stator.
2 - Junk the existing regulator and rectifier modules and put in a one-piece solid-state unit of greater spec. than is required.
3 - Donate existing wiring harness to the London Science Museum.
4 - Put the  ignition switch in the tool box near the coil and batt.
5 - Modify the kill switch so that it is used to short the points out rather than be part of the long distance electrical  feed to them (and so win a few volts back for the ignition system).
6 - Run a heavyweight 12 volt bus wire up to the headlight from the batt. and then take power for accessories from there via a well made, sealed junction box.
7 - All earths to the frame (thus lose a lot of spaghetti). Make those earths good quality, and use an automotive grade copper earth strap to bridge the steering head bearings.
8 - Use (a minimum of) all soldered connectors.
9 - Use generic horn/dip switch/turn signal switchgear for simplicity.

I reckon this would give me reliability, fixability and save a few pounds weight. Just need to make the first cut...

[The Garbone]

On #4

I want to do this also.  I was thinking about leaving the box empty  (since it is a keyed lock) and putting in a toggle switch inside.  Putting a retro light switch in place of the existing ignition.  If you get to this soon I would love to see pictures.

The only down side is I will have to put may spare tire and cable in my saddle bag.

[geoffbaker]

1 - Junk the AC lighting and go to all DC. Can a 4 wire alternator be used (fully)? - if not buy a 3 wire stator.
2 - Junk the existing regulator and rectifier modules and put in a one-piece solid-state unit of greater spec. than is required.

6 - Run a heavyweight 12 volt bus wire up to the headlight from the batt. and then take power for accessories from there via a well made, sealed junction box.
7 - All earths to the frame (thus lose a lot of spaghetti). Make those earths good quality, and use an automotive grade copper earth strap to bridge the steering head bearings.
8 - Use (a minimum of) all soldered connectors.

When you do it, write it up fully here. I'd love to do much the same - go to DC, lose the rec/reg.. waiting for someone else to do it and show me how!

I already rewired so I have all circuit breakers instead of fuses, and all in one place (toolbox). Much improved.

In the meantime, I have a rule... whenever I need to fix something electrical, I make a new good connection, either permanent soldered or waterproof connector... upgrading it one bit at a time...

[Jeri Danger]

Hi
OK, this is something I am working on(well soon anyway)
Yes, you will be able to reuse your four wire alternator.
On AC lighting bikes four of the six coils(two wires) are used to supply the headlamp.
One should be able to convert by connecting these wires in parallel to
the two(purple,I think)rectifier supply lines.
Of course you will need to connect these two wires so that they are
in phase(phase additive).That should be simple enuff to do with a multimeter.
So, you should have all the output of the alternator being rectified at that point.
The one thing I don't know is the capacity of the rectifier/regulator unit.
Ok, now to work on getting some switched DC to the headlamp.
I will need to stare at the wiring(such as it is)harness for a spell
I am
Jeri Danger!!!
PS hope you,all can understand even a bit of my blathering

[petefletcher]

I think I can speak for all RE owners when I agree wholeheartedly.
The current wiring is a complete dog's breakfast (if dogs eat spaggetti)
What gets me is all the different types of connectors.
Unfortunately I on't understand auto electrics enough to have a go.
If anyone has successfully done this please publish!!

[t120rbullet]

A few thoughts on re-wiring,
My early 99 has an all DC system. With the headlight on all the time there was a drain on the battery when starting, so that's why they went to the ac/dc system.
I got by that by putting a better/more Ah battery in it. When I'm stopped at a light or starting the headlight (halogen sealed beam) doesn't dim at all. And when I get the revs up the anemic alternator will charge the battery just fine with the added benefit of since the battery isn't getting boiled by an over enthusiastic alternator it lasts forever.
With the high beam on the ammeter needle is in the green so as far as I'm concerned it's good enough not to "fix"it.
 
The 2 piece regulator/rectifier is a pretty good long lasting unit. No need to toss it to up-grade.
My 95 came with a one piece black rubber RR unit that was a POS right off the bat and I replaced it with a Tympanium RR unit that 12 yrs later is still working good.
I have used them on Triumph for many years with no problems too.
PODtronics and Boyer also make good RR units but the Boyer is a bit on the pricey side for me.

The reason the rats nest is in the headlight is because both the battery and the alternator wires run all the way up the ammeter and feed everything from there.
It's hard to get around not having a rat's nest up there. By getting rid of the ammeter you can simplify the harness greatly.

Ground wires, though good bonding to the frame is important I still believe in running ground wires for most everything. When you rely on the frame to do it all you are relying on corroding/rusting nuts and bolts for all your grounds. A wire will do it better. Even a small one like 18g will do.

My 2001 Bullet.
The day I bought it I was on my way home. I turned at a light and everything died. I coasted over to a parking lot and checked the fuse and it was burnt. I put the spare in and made it home. Drove it for a couple of months and no more problems.
After I put the new engine in it I rode it to work and when I pulled into the parking lot it died. Fuse blew again. Had 3 spares this time. Put the second one in and poof.
Oh Oh, it ain't gonna be so easy this time.
After work I went out there and hooked a buzzer up between the 2 fuse connectors and it started buzzing right off the bat.
I pulled the headlight off and started disconnecting connectors until it quit buzzing.
Leaving that connector undone I put the fuse back in and rode it home with no lights at all. Later I found that the wires going back to the taillight were the culprit so I started checking it out and found that where it wrapped around the fender in the front by the coil the tire had rubbed through and trashed 3 wires. I made up a new harness and thought all was well.
While I had the headlight off I replaced the high beam indicator bulb because it didn't work. With the new bulb in not only did it work when the high beam was on but it was on when the low beam was on too except not as bright. The headlight was very dim at idle but got better as the revs went up.
Now I get my intro to the AC system.
While I'm checking out the AC system I have a bunch of the connectors off and since none of the lights were connected I couldn't see that I had left the key switch on and went to bed. The next morning I realize that the battery was now dead too. I charged it up and started the bike so I think to myself alright, I didn't trash the coil and points. Cool!
After checking out and getting totally confused with the AC system I tried reversing the amber and green wires on the headlight itself and all the problems went away.
When I disconnected the headlight I marked right on the headlight with magic marker what color wire went to where so it must have been like that since before I bought it and didn't make a diffrence until I put the indicator bulb in.
I took it out for a 10 mile ride and it was OK. The next day I took it out for another 10 mile ride and it was OK.
Last Sat. I rode it to work again and when I left to go home it wouldn't start.
After changing the plug and a couple of loud backfires it fired up but was running a bit on the weak side. I got it home and the next day there was a puddle on the floor behind the gearbox. About 6" behind the gearbox. A little flashlight work later and I found the coil had split the rim around the top where they crimp the plastic top on and was leaking oil. Didn't think there was that much oil in a coil ! That will teach me to leave the key on overnight. New condenser in already in and a new coil is on the way.

So I'll follow this thread closely especially the re-wire of the alternator back to a 2 wire DC system.
I like simple.

 




  

 




  

[Chasfield]

Yes, you will be able to reuse your four wire alternator.
On AC lighting bikes four of the six coils(two wires) are used to supply the headlamp.
One should be able to convert by connecting these wires in parallel to
the two(purple,I think)rectifier supply lines.
Of course you will need to connect these two wires so that they are
in phase(phase additive).That should be simple enuff to do with a multimeter.

Jeri

I had a look at the 4 wire alternator set up. As you suggest, re-merging the AC lighting windings, by parallel connection, with those used for DC looks straightforward, apart from getting the phasing right. "Man", I thought, "I could sure use a dual beam oscilloscope right about now." But then I was thinking that two analogue multi-meters could be connected, one to each pair of output wires. Turning the engine over on the kick start would produce needle kicks that would indicate the direction of current flow, and the connections for correct phasing would quickly become obvious.

At the moment I am collecting bits and pieces for the re-wire - which I think will happen before too long.

[ace.cafe]

I've got a good story for the "electrical nightmare" crowd here.

My bike has always had an occasional "stumble" that was unpredictable, and sometimes affected idle and was sometimes felt at low speed running, but was very intermittent.
I had always assumed there was a carb issue that I couldn't track down, like some dirt or something that might occasionally infect the carb, and then move thru.

However, I just recently installed my new tachometer last weekend, and I was running the bike yesterday to warm it up, and I noticed that when it stumbled, the tach needle jumped around wildly, and then settled back to normal again, and then when it stumbled again a few seconds later, the tach needle went wild again.
At that point, I knew it was something electrical.

So, searching and testing, I had the cap off the distributor, to see if I could track something down inside there.(BTW, I have the Boyer Mk3 ignition). But, try as I may, I couldn't find anything, and every time I ran the bike to see if the problem was still occurring, it ran perfectly, with no stumbles, and the tach needle was steady as she goes.
So, I decided that I couldn't find it and would hope for the best, and put the distributor cap back on to "button her up". Then I decided to go on with my warming up of the bike, so I kickstarted it, and it had trouble kickstarting, and then when it did get started, the stumbling was back and the tach needle jumping around again.

Well, the only thing that changed since it had been running perfectly a minute ago, was that I put the plastic distributor cap back on. So, I took it off again, and re-started the bike. Perfect running, no tach jumping. Put the cap back on, Problem comes back.
This is a PLASTIC cap! I have no idea why it is causing a problem, and it's not pushing the wires around because I tried checking that.

Soooo, I go in the house and get my spare other plastic distributor cap, and put that one on the bike, and it runs perfect!
No problems now.

Why in the world a particular plastic distributor cap with no electrical function would do this to the bike, I have no idea. And why an identical replacement works just fine, I have no idea.
But I can tell you that in almost 40 years of mechanic work, I've never seen anything like it.

[Talcecom]

To make life easier and change to an all DC bike, couldn't you just take the two AC wires and use another rectifier/regultor (the same one as on the DC side). Once you had two DC's you could parallel the DC outputs with no phaseing  problems. Just an idea.  Bob.

[ace.cafe]

To make life easier and change to an all DC bike, couldn't you just take the two AC wires and use another rectifier/regultor (the same one as on the DC side). Once you had two DC's you could parallel the DC outputs with no phaseing  problems. Just an idea.  Bob.

Yes that is "do-able".

[Foggy_Auggie]

I've got a good story for the "electrical nightmare" crowd here.

My bike has always had an occasional "stumble" that was unpredictable, and sometimes affected idle and was sometimes felt at low speed running, but was very intermittent.
I had always assumed there was a carb issue that I couldn't track down, like some dirt or something that might occasionally infect the carb, and then move thru.

However, I just recently installed my new tachometer last weekend, and I was running the bike yesterday to warm it up, and I noticed that when it stumbled, the tach needle jumped around wildly, and then settled back to normal again, and then when it stumbled again a few seconds later, the tach needle went wild again.
At that point, I knew it was something electrical.

So, searching and testing, I had the cap off the distributor, to see if I could track something down inside there.(BTW, I have the Boyer Mk3 ignition). But, try as I may, I couldn't find anything, and every time I ran the bike to see if the problem was still occurring, it ran perfectly, with no stumbles, and the tach needle was steady as she goes.
So, I decided that I couldn't find it and would hope for the best, and put the distributor cap back on to "button her up". Then I decided to go on with my warming up of the bike, so I kickstarted it, and it had trouble kickstarting, and then when it did get started, the stumbling was back and the tach needle jumping around again.

Well, the only thing that changed since it had been running perfectly a minute ago, was that I put the plastic distributor cap back on. So, I took it off again, and re-started the bike. Perfect running, no tach jumping. Put the cap back on, Problem comes back.
This is a PLASTIC cap! I have no idea why it is causing a problem, and it's not pushing the wires around because I tried checking that.

Soooo, I go in the house and get my spare other plastic distributor cap, and put that one on the bike, and it runs perfect!
No problems now.

Why in the world a particular plastic distributor cap with no electrical function would do this to the bike, I have no idea. And why an identical replacement works just fine, I have no idea.
But I can tell you that in almost 40 years of mechanic work, I've never seen anything like it.

I've seen this in the old car points, rotor and disributor days.  Car distributor caps are plastic.  Distributor caps will get an almost invisible carbon track at times.  Other times it is very visible.  These carbon tracks would short between cylinder rotor contacts or sometimes short to the metal distributor base housing.

I've had new distributor caps that would short out having no visible imperfections.  The fix was to buy another distributor cap.

Of course the Enfield cap has no contact points or rotor.  But it would have to be a carbon track conductor short of some kind on the inside of the cap. 

Mine has a rough dark gray finish on the inside.  Seems like the inside matt finish could capture carbon particles as there are polarity reverses pulsing inside that cap.

Just a thought.

[Blltrdr]

 Foggy, no rotor, no track! The stock Bullet cap is just a plastic cover. No wires and non-conducting. In Aces' case it seems like some kinda freaky luck that the cap change solved his problem. Huh! Scratch scratch, ponder, scratch scratch! I wish I could solve some of my problems with the change of cap!

[bulletsixty5]

i concure on the bullet wiring rats nest. (as a long dragged out problem post of my own has expained). its a bit sketchy at best.

[LJRead]

When I first got my Thunderbird it had some electrical problems.  As I recall, these were having to do with the lights.  Having only house wiring experience, I figured it couldn't be that much different, so, being me, I just grabbed the bull by the horns, unwrapped the entire wiring harness, traced each wire, found two that were broken so soldered them up.  Then I went through the entire bike and solder and shrink wrapped every connection.  While doing all this I had a cascade of wire down the right side to the foot pegs, I guess, but though sweating it out a little, I taped everything up and put everything back together, and everything worked fine.  Only problem is, now I want to paint the chrome headlight shell black and there is a dent in it to be straightened and filled, so this means I will have to label each wire, cut and reassemble after the lamp shell is ready to put back.

If I were in the U.S. I would go to a better quality zinc plated wire (less corrosion prone) and maybe simplify even more.  I put a new frame ground in, a heavy bronze strap. The soldering and getting rid of excess connectors did make a difference - behind the headlight now looks simplified, before it looked like a real rat's nest, now not so much.   I got rid of a bunch of indicator lights telling me this and that, none of which I would ever look at and none of which worked, so that one harness and associated wires was quite a bundle.  I also got rid of the broken tachometer, electric, as i have never bothered to look at the ones I have had on my cars, so wouldn't look at it either.  Yeah, I do like simple.  There was a custom Harley I saw once with no instruments at all, don't know where he put the light switches, probably weren't any turn signal lights (don't think there were).  That impressed me.

After all this, I now read about wiring problems on the forum and wonder why don't they just get in there and put everything right.  I spent a full week on it, but feel better for it. 

Yes, I would still like to improve it more - I don't ride at night so the headlight isn't a bother.  I went to capacitor instead of battery, and now no battery, but I have CDI ignition and no starter motor, so none required.

I am using this Thunderbird as the basis for my rickshaw, so will be doing more wiring of tail lights etc. and will then probably simplify even more.  Some will be LED.

[geoffbaker]

I must admit, with my diesel I'm tempted to get rid of ALL of it.. I don't need no steenkin' electrics!!!

But then I'd get tickets, I suppose...

Could I just drive around with a kerosene lantern and use hand signals, I wonder...