Unofficial Royal Enfield Community Forum
General Discussion => Campfire Talk => Topic started by: gizzo on October 09, 2015, 07:52:59 am
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A question for you tradesmen and women. What does it take to become a qualified tradesman and in particular a mechanic? Here in Australia it involves a 4 year apprenticeship where you as an apprentice are basically enslaved by a tradesman or company for 4 years and where you learn your craft on the job and with a healthy dose of formal study at trade school. If you don't serve an apprenticeship, you can't really go calling yourself a Tradesman. Some guys trained on the job but without the formal apprenticeship are just as good if not better than a qualified mechanic and I think they're the exception to that rule of thumb. Other guys do more R&R (remove and replace) and they go by the tag "service technician" or some such. Becoming a tradesman in Australia is an achievement to be proud of. It also allows one to fleece dentists and doctors come service or repair time.
How is it in the States? No reason, just shooting the shit......
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Kind of depends on the trade.
If you want to become an auto mechanic, or body man(panel beater). You should go to a "technical" or "vocational" school. Usually 2 years.
Many trades can be learned "on the job" or as an "apprentice". However, wages will probably lower then a school certified person, or the school certified person will get hired over an unschooled person.
Some things do require a professional license, such as Electricians, medical trades, aircraft mechanics, plumbers, etc..
But it really boils down to how much money you want to make. More "tech" schools along with experience, and tools, usually means more money.
Then there is the option to open your own business as a tradesman. They usually make allot more, but have the headache of running a business. These are the ones that can "fleece" the doctors.
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+1.
REpozer pretty well nailed it.
I spent a bit over 2 years in school to get my Air Frame and Powerplant (A&P) license. If I'd known the stress levels involved with aviation I would have not done it, but I still look forward to going to work every day, and like it or not I'm still learning, money's pretty good, and co-workers are great! :)
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Like REpozer mentioned, it all depends on the trade as for the requirements of schooling. Here, literally anyone can become a "tech". But you do need certain schooling, really more of just testing than schooling, to become certified in different areas. Schooling is required if one wants to become a "Master Tech", but I'm sure there are some master techs out there that have been wrenching for 30 years and never went to school.
I'm a service tech for a Subaru shop and I make about $20/hr, tho I wish it was $20. Hahaha I don't have any formal schooling for automotive work, mostly self taught, but I have had a lot of hands on instruction for different tasks and jobs. I can do just about every job on a car except for rebuilding the transmission. I'm a little slower than certified techs, and I need to ask questions from time to time, but I can hold my own and I'm also very good at troubleshooting problems. :)
I'm honestly thinking of changing careers and becoming an electrician. This field does require you to do schooling. Everyone starts out as an apprentice at about $14/hr while going thru formal schooling 1 night a week for 4 years. After 4 years you are qualified to become a licensed "Journeyman", and at which point you will be making $30/hr an average.
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My observation as a motorcycle customer during the past 53 years in the U.S. is that many service mechanics working for Japanese motorcycle shops have received mostly on-the-job training. The shops are looking for someone who will work cheap, can spin wrenches and perform tire changes and minor maintenance tasks but they don't want to pay for someone really smart, educated and talented. If they become too skilled, they will leave the dealer for greener pastures in the automotive industry, or set up their own independent servicing shop. However, the European brands appear to require actual education and knowledge regarding their products and the service techs have to attend service schools every year to get up to speed on the new models and features.
I have a couple of friends that used to work for motorcycle shops and every one started out sweeping floors for free just to be able to be around motorcycles. Eventually they turned into motorcycle mechanics at their shop without receiving any formal training or certifications. When you dig down to what U.S. motorcycle dealerships are looking for it is all about cheap labor not certifications or formal training.
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Believe me when i tell you this. No one in their right mind would go into the Automotive Technician trade today. I work in SE Michigan and we couldn't hire a qualified tech if our life depended on it. Most get to about year 2 in college and after working summers in a dealer they shift to some form of engineering or some other related field once they experience the BS and politics in the dealer. New car dealers are operating to 1960's standards in the 21st century. How many other countries still pay flat rate to technicians? My 2 cents worth, since i have been doing this for over forty years it could be i'm a grumpy old man ;D.
Roverman.
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I worked as an apprentice in a shop for about 5 years, but in an informal way, and there was no "certification" involved. Whether I got, or kept, a job was all about whether I could do the work, or not.
Regarding car work, I went to an NIASE(now just the ASE?) class for about 2 nights, until I realized that it was only about American cars, and I only worked on British cars, so I quit. However, there was an interesting little bit of irony when I worked in the little shop in Georgetown in Washington DC, and the President of the NIASE owned a Spitfire, and I was the only one that he would allow to work on it, and I was not NIASE certified. I got a bit of a chuckle about that. Still do today! ;D
To me, it comes down to ability. Sadly, real ability is not easily found in dealer service bays today, but if you really look for it, you might find somebody.
I have done my own work forever, and you will never see me in any dealer's shop anywhere, for any reason, other than maybe ordering parts.
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Believe me when i tell you this. No one in their right mind would go into the Automotive Technician trade today. I work in SE Michigan and we couldn't hire a qualified tech if our life depended on it. Most get to about year 2 in college and after working summers in a dealer they shift to some form of engineering or some other related field once they experience the BS and politics in the dealer. New car dealers are operating to 1960's standards in the 21st century. How many other countries still pay flat rate to technicians? My 2 cents worth, since i have been doing this for over forty years it could be i'm a grumpy old man ;D.
Roverman.
Don't they go by "flag time" or "book hours"? MANY years ago I had a brief stint as a service writer and the mechanics at our shop were paid based on however much time the "book" shows for a certain repair. For example, to R&R an alternator may show 3 hours for a specific car, but if the tech did it in 1.4 hrs they still got paid 3hrs. A couple of the good techs were making 60-70k and this was 10yrs ago at a small repair shop chain
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Believe me when i tell you this. No one in their right mind would go into the Automotive Technician trade today. I work in SE Michigan and we couldn't hire a qualified tech if our life depended on it. Most get to about year 2 in college and after working summers in a dealer they shift to some form of engineering or some other related field once they experience the BS and politics in the dealer. New car dealers are operating to 1960's standards in the 21st century. How many other countries still pay flat rate to technicians? My 2 cents worth, since i have been doing this for over forty years it could be i'm a grumpy old man ;D.
Roverman.
This is the path my son took.
Tech school-diesel
Service tech-brakes and exhaust
Service writer
Destroys autos in Milford for GM...
I think you nailed it.
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Don't they go by "flag time" or "book hours"? MANY years ago I had a brief stint as a service writer and the mechanics at our shop were paid based on however much time the "book" shows for a certain repair. For example, to R&R an alternator may show 3 hours for a specific car, but if the tech did it in 1.4 hrs they still got paid 3hrs. A couple of the good techs were making 60-70k and this was 10yrs ago at a small repair shop chain
That's the flat rate book, and I have worked several jobs in the past that paid flat rate hours. Mostly in big dealerships.
In the small shops, we went by the hours that the job took.
Most of the time, if you couldn't beat the flat rate book times, you only lasted a short time in the job, and got fired after a while. The service department wants maximum output. This sometimes leads to shoddy work, bolts left out, shortcuts taken, etc.
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Exactly my point firecapt7. People like you and me get penalized under the flat rate system because we do good work. Your last statement nails it. The rich technician is either cheating or dealing drugs.
Roverman.
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Hey Farmer John, i worked at Milford as a contractor writing engine controls diagnostics. I ended up back in the dealership after GM slashed contractor labour costs, and since i am uneducated i was one of those that had to go ;D. I hope your son is doing well.
Roverman.
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Thanks for your stories, gentlemen. :)