[The Garbone]

Well,  seems they are going to force 15% ethanol into our gas..

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2010-10-13-ethanol-standard_N.htm

But don't worry,  its all good..

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/01/america_and_the_middle_east_fo.html

[Lahti35]

Washington is full of corn , they have no idea there's a shortage. 

[cyrusb]

It's amazing what one president can accomplish in just 2 years

[redcat]

You know, Every lobbyist in Washington should be run out of town on a Rail

[1Blackwolf1]

  Just so this stays on a decent track read this article..no one can say that we are causing people to go hungry.  But I know this since I live in a very rural area and see thousands of acres of great farmland go fallow every year.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/jul/11/na-usda-urged-to-end-paying-farmers-not-to-grow-cr/

[cyrusb]

The whole mess seems so crazy to me. What I do know is, I'd rather eat than drive.

[ScooterBob]

REALLY - If the boys want the BEST bang for the buck in biofuel - they need to use switchgrass. It's a wide-growing weed - and it yields more sugars than corn by a longshot. Oh - wait - I get it now ....... it's a common WEED and no one has a bio-patent on it!

[1Blackwolf1]

  That's why I pointed that out.  And when is the last time any of us from the site couldn't buy either corn or potatoes in our local grocery/farmers market.  Sometimes the hype is over the top.

  And one other note is how do drag cars and funnies run nitro or AA gas okay.  Maybe we need to increase our technologies in manufacture.  Stainless fuel delivery sytems and lines and hardened valves seem to do the trick there.  Heck I had an '02 chev S10 that ran E85 just fine.  We can make rockets and such that can explore the universe..I think we can create vehicles that can run anything for fuel alcohol or otherwise.  

  We've got to start thinking for the future generations..yes internal combustion is antiquated we all know that.  But what do you want to leave behind for the future?  

  We can produce enough food for the future and for fuel base if we do something now.  I'm certainly getting worn out with the oil companies saying the sky is falling.

[1Blackwolf1]

REALLY - If the boys want the BEST bang for the buck in biofuel - they need to use switchgrass. It's a wide-growing weed - and it yields more sugars than corn by a longshot. Oh - wait - I get it now ....... it's a common WEED and no one has a bio-patent on it!

  Yes anything can be used..if it's high enough in sugar content..heck you even run lactose as a base (milk sugar) for fuels.  We need to do something for technology increases.

[scoTTy]

my problem with biofuel is less gas milage..

the fuel cost less.. sometimes.. for example where I get "gasoline" across the street everything is laced with ethanol..   same price for regular,,

I tried the laced gas out of curiosity and lost almost 2 mpg

no money saved for sure

[Blue Ridge Wheeltor]

Bad gas- I thought sure this was about Uncle Ernie.

[Lahti35]

You know, Every lobbyist in Washington should be run out of town on a Rail

Why stop there

I think the rest of the US could get along just fine without all of DC.

[ScooterBob]

 That's why I pointed that out.  And when is the last time any of us from the site couldn't buy either corn or potatoes in our local grocery/farmers market.  Sometimes the hype is over the top.

  And one other note is how do drag cars and funnies run nitro or AA gas okay.  Maybe we need to increase our technologies in manufacture.  Stainless fuel delivery sytems and lines and hardened valves seem to do the trick there.  Heck I had an '02 chev S10 that ran E85 just fine.  We can make rockets and such that can explore the universe..I think we can create vehicles that can run anything for fuel alcohol or otherwise.  

  We've got to start thinking for the future generations..yes internal combustion is antiquated we all know that.  But what do you want to leave behind for the future?  

  We can produce enough food for the future and for fuel base if we do something now.  I'm certainly getting worn out with the oil companies saying the sky is falling.

Henry Ford originally had planned for his Model T to run on home made ethanol. The fuel tanks and lines were all copper - the carburettor bodies were all brass. His vision was two-fold. One was that any rotting vegetable matter from tree bark to lawn clippings could be fermented and distilled into usable fuel that was less toxic and had fewer side effects than petroleum fuels - the other was that Henry never envisioned the distribution of motor fuels being what it is today. The Standard Oil clan put their arms around Henry's shoulders and told him all about the benefits of this new, modern and wonderful stuff called gasoline ...... and told him about how terrible if he'd go out of business if he didn't embrace its use - even if it WAS more expensive, toxic and less powerful than ethanol - although more energy dense. THAT is why we have embraced petroleum fuels in this country - and why old Henry is probably laughing at us from his grave today ....... 

[Ice]

 I suspect that when things reach crisis level this may be the technology "unveiled" to save us.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_1009_what_ever_happened_to_smokeys_hot_vapor_engine/index.html

 It still yanks my beard as so to speak that we are forced to pay 45 cents a gallon more for (E10) motor fuel that returns 10%-15%  less fuel mileage than its predecessor.

[robbw]

" Congress required fuel refiners to blend 36 billion gallons of biofuels, mostly ethanol, into auto fuel by 2022. EPA says that requires at least E15 blends.

This was the last line and probably the most important part of the article.  It's being done to comply with a mandate by Congress most likely backed by those who will make money on this deal.

[robbw]

In addition, gas prices are skyrocketing due to the "increased cost of oil".  Since the rising cost of oil is mostly driven by commodity trading rather than supply and demand, I don't think even the increase in Ethanol will do anything to curtail the price of gas.  All I can say is keep riding your RE to get the maximum in gas mileage and stock up on as much gas as you can now.

[1Blackwolf1]

Henry Ford originally had planned for his Model T to run on home made ethanol. The fuel tanks and lines were all copper - the carburettor bodies were all brass. His vision was two-fold. One was that any rotting vegetable matter from tree bark to lawn clippings could be fermented and distilled into usable fuel that was less toxic and had fewer side effects than petroleum fuels - the other was that Henry never envisioned the distribution of motor fuels being what it is today. The Standard Oil clan put their arms around Henry's shoulders and told him all about the benefits of this new, modern and wonderful stuff called gasoline ...... and told him about how terrible if he'd go out of business if he didn't embrace its use - even if it WAS more expensive, toxic and less powerful than ethanol - although more energy dense. THAT is why we have embraced petroleum fuels in this country - and why old Henry is probably laughing at us from his grave today ....... 

  Exactly my point..we know it works, just that we've been lured to the point that it's all that is available.  You may lose a couple of miles per gallon but an engine would last a lot longer.  Wouldn't have to worry about any carbon build-up problems. 

  Brazil has been running E85/90 for many years now and don't seem to have any problems.  But they wanted less dependence on foreign oil, and don't seem to be ill effected by the change.  But then again we consider them a third world country.

  If we did embrace a change we might break big oils back, and maybe prices would come down a bit.  And remember we are still far behind what the rest of the world is paying for any type of motor fuel.

[scoTTy]

yea but, if you are speaking of other prices...  they have a sh%%t pile of taxes tied on... for all theire other things...    like  free healthcare...  nothing is free...  you play you pay....  live where you are

[rooke]

http://useconomy.about.com/od/commoditiesmarketfaq/p/high_gas_prices.htm

This is a pretty good article on why gas prices are so high. 

[scoTTy]

that's 2008 reasoning..  nothing changed a lot since then

  just saying

[Blue Ridge Wheeltor]

Might be a good time to stockpile some oil, especially for the cars. Prices will go nowhere but up, esp if the Arabs act up and the Suez is closed.
If you really want to save money, buy it in the 5 qt jugs like they sell in Wal Mart.  Divided by five, the cost per quart is considerably less than the single bottle price.
I was looking at Valvoline Maxlife for the Toyota, and it was $4 and change per quart, but the 5 qt jug was $13.00. Castrol was similar savings.
Stockpiling gas is riskier. besides being more dangerous, it doesn't hold up as well with the ethanol in it.

[1Blackwolf1]

yea but, if you are speaking of other prices...  they have a sh%%t pile of taxes tied on... for all theire other things...    like  free healthcare...  nothing is free...  you play you pay....  live where you are

  Maybe yes, maybe no.  In Germany for example the populace pays in a lot for their own health care/retirement.  That's why three weeks after the wall came down there was such commotion..the former West Germans had paid into the system for years.  Wall fell and lo and behold their new countrymen wanted what they had paid for.  

  And if you look at it we are paying for the same things..just in different ways.  Costs associated with medical care that aren't paid for are transferred to those who do.  That's why if you have insurance your carrier is constantly sending you statements for treatment saying the charges are above reasonable and customary.  The hospitals are trying to recoup their loss.

  Basically we are and have been paying the high taxes also, just that we don't see them all at once.  We get nickel and dimed to the poor house.  Don't get me wrong the public health bill is bad news..but we are still paying for it..just being bled out pennies at a time.

[PhilJ]

This was the last line and probably the most important part of the article.  It's being done to comply with a mandate by Congress most likely backed by those who will make money on this deal.

You don't think? .... Yes you do and are most certainly right! 

[ScooterBob]

I suspect that when things reach crisis level this may be the technology "unveiled" to save us.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_1009_what_ever_happened_to_smokeys_hot_vapor_engine/index.html

 It still yanks my beard as so to speak that we are forced to pay 45 cents a gallon more for (E10) motor fuel that returns 10%-15%  less fuel mileage than its predecessor.

It costs so much because it takes a lot of OIL BASED FUEL to make corn! Remember that modern agriculture is the practiced art of turning petroleum products into food ....... !!

[REpozer]

One of the causes of the Egypt riots is food inflation, brought on by less corn to eat, because its being used to make(subsidise) real fuel.

[1Blackwolf1]

 Just so this stays on a decent track read this article..no one can say that we are causing people to go hungry.  But I know this since I live in a very rural area and see thousands of acres of great farmland go fallow every year.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/jul/11/na-usda-urged-to-end-paying-farmers-not-to-grow-cr/

  But there are reasons for that..check this out.  And lots of other crops can be used for alternative fuels.

[1Blackwolf1]

 

  I'd like to see the proof of that myself..maybe true there but not so much here in the good ol' USA.  Read the post below from earlier in the discussion.

   And we are talking about a different country..I know of no shortage here of any cereal grain crop.  When another country starves its' inhabitants we have no control over its' government.  Could it also be that the Egpytians  are tired of a military based government.

  Bottom line here is we could really allow our economy to recover if we would plant crops and aell them for whatever use to whom ever would pay for them. 

[AgentX]

I'm just waiting for Doc Brown to bring me a Mr. Fusion.

[1 Thump]

REALLY - If the boys want the BEST bang for the buck in biofuel - they need to use switchgrass. It's a wide-growing weed - and it yields more sugars than corn by a longshot. Oh - wait - I get it now ....... it's a common WEED and no one has a bio-patent on it!

Or hemp .

[ScooterBob]

Or hemp .

Copy that! Hemp seed oil makes some of the BEST bio-diesel! - and the fabric woven from the fibers can't be beat, either ..... ! Thanks, Mister Hearst for screwing all THAT up for us ..... 

[Ice]

 It used to be a strategic crop when Iron men sailed in wooden ships.
The taller the plant, the longer the fibers,,,desirable in the manufacture of rope for maritime service.