[randombikerdude]

hey,

i have an 09 electra, usually ES but when it's cold it doesn't always work.. I'm a novice and need help/steps to kickstart the bike. a couple things I've noticed when trying, the kickstart will become difficult to move, almost impossible.. is this because compression is building up in the engine? Also, the decompress level on the handle doesnt want to move.. anyway, I've seen a 3 year old kickstart a royal, it can't be that difficult?

[The Garbone]

You might just need to lube the cable on your decomp and see if it loosens up.  On an AVL it lifts the exhaust valve pushrod so there is not that much movement anyway.

What your feeling is probably compression. On a bike with good compression you can almost stand on the kicker at that point.  Moving the piston just a touch after you hit this point by using the decomp and kick her from there.. Should start easy.

[UncleErnie]

The iron jug and AVL decomps work differently- the AVL is basically useless.

What oi are you using?  In cold weather I wouldn't recommend anything thicker than 15-40, with 10-40 being even better.

Here's what i do;
Before kicking, pull the clutch lever and kick through onvce or twice.  this frees up the clutch.
Gas, choke, and key  -ON-
Get the lever to where it's really hard to move.  That's TDC.
With the clutch pulled, I get the lever to about 9 or 10 o'clock- and bounce on the lever until I get it to move just a hair.  That puts the piston a teeny bit past TDC.
Then let the lever back up and kick through forcully and smoothly all the way through.
>resist all temptation to twist the throttle<  until the engine has idled for a second or two.  Then just let it idle until the choke come back to normal and you don't need to twist the gas.  Takes about 2 minutes.

The main pointer is to get the lever just a little bit past Top Dead Center before kicking. 

Also- keep your battery on a tender, and keep track of the fluid level.

[boggy]

danimaltime,
uncle ernie's instructions above are how i go about it too.  some other points to add that might help:

-to get your decompression lever to move, try kicking the lever slowly while pressing it.  it'll go easier.
-i did all of what uncle ernie mentioned but i was failing to kick "all the way through" for a while causing my kick lever to come cracking back hard enough to bust a shin.
-i have to use my choke in any weather less than 55 F or so.

takes a good deal of practice but gets super easy once you get the knack of it.

[1 Thump]

danimaltime,
uncle ernie's instructions above are how i go about it too.  some other points to add that might help:

-to get your decompression lever to move, try kicking the lever slowly while pressing it.  it'll go easier.
-i did all of what uncle ernie mentioned but i was failing to kick "all the way through" for a while causing my kick lever to come cracking back hard enough to bust a shin.
-i have to use my choke in any weather less than 55 F or so.

takes a good deal of practice but gets super easy once you get the knack of it.

If you have someone around who does engine mods, they could easily machine a real decompressor into the head. Its inexpensive and will works like it should.

The stock AVL decompressor really is not a decompressor. Its pushed up the pushrod which inturn opens the valve. Its difficult because you have to overcome the pressure you are trying to relieve. 

[Tiny Tim]

Its pushed up the pushrod which inturn opens the valve.

Sorry to appear pedantic but you'll never "lift" the exhaust valve with the decompressor lever and cable on the AVL. It's use, by design, is to stop the exhaust valve reseating once it has been lifted.

This is why it has to be applied whilst kicking over the engine slowly to lift the exhaust valve in the first place.

All that being said, it's a crock of xxxx and I've removed mine completely. Its only pracical use is to stop the engine and that can be done in so many other ways.

[UncleErnie]

HA!  Took me forever to figure out I can just turn the key to the left.

[1Blackwolf1]

  Which brings up and interesting point.  Both of my fuelie bikes recommend shutting the engine off with the key and only using the kill switch in emergencies.  Been doing that for years now.

[1 Thump]

Sorry to appear pedantic but you'll never "lift" the exhaust valve with the decompressor lever and cable on the AVL. It's use, by design, is to stop the exhaust valve reseating once it has been lifted.

Thanks for that, no seriously thanks. Now i ll never forget.

[tooseevee]

Here's what I've learned from my first Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter with my 2008 AVL Classic starting from zero miles. I did a full dealer prep & a lot of other stuff on it as it had not been sold by its dealer & not started for a long time when I got it in February 2010.

I managed to put almost 200 miles on after I got it all sorted out; all short, break-in trips around town, doing errands, etc.. & a few blazing 40 & 45mph "blasts" down the highway for a few minutes. I have not even BEEN in 5th gear yet. 90% of my starts have been with the kicker. I don't care for electric starts & I don't want trouble later + plus kickstarting gives you a clue to your tuneups + I've had kick only harleys all my life (I'm 73 & still have one) so I don't give a second thought to kicking this little black beauty over or stressing about finding TDC.

I don't use the decompressor AT ALL. I found out it was useless & unnecessary very early on. Even now, stone cold after a week, I can kickstart it in 3 or 4 kicks.

I give it 3 or four kicks (the secret is smooth & all the way down) with the key off.

Then I pull the enrichener out & turn the key on & Don't Touch The Throttle!

Kick through all the way down. Usually in three kicks (stone cold - it's been in the teens & 20s here. Unheated garage) it's running. AFTER it's running, I blip the throttle as necessary. In less than half a minute it wants the enrichener pushed in & it will run fine with just an occasional blip of the throttle.

In the warm weather, it's a one or two kicker all the time.

It has the green TCI unit & the kickstand switch & headlight on jumper are removed. It still has the air pulse thing & the huge muffler. That will go when I have a few more miles on. Possibly next Winter. And a simpler intake also.

And I always kill the engine with the decompressor as Pete Snidal & others recommend. I find that if I shut it down with the key, it will run backwards one stroke & makes that horrible sprag destroying noise. If I use the decomp, it does not do that. It just dies quietly & peacefully. 

PS: I love this little bike!

[GreenMachine]

that's pretty much how i start my 06 iron....Works for me...I adjusted the carb once after i did the 50 brit muffler and the raising of the needle and slighltly higher pilot /main...Every now and the I might have to play with the idle adjuster but not often...I feel the same way about her...

[AgentX]

I give it 3 or four kicks (the secret is smooth & all the way down) with the key off.

What do these kicks accomplish?  (asking in earnest as a newb to kickstarting, not as a challenge...)

[Ice]

 For me it draws a fuel/air charge into the cylinder so when I go for the start there is something in the combustion chamber to combust.

[AgentX]

Whatever it is, it worked nicely this morning--3d kick start, with the choke off.

[Ice]

Whatever it is, it worked nicely this morning--3d kick start, with the choke off.

 Zen and the art of start 

[UncleErnie]

I always pull the clutch and do an initial kick-through to loosen up the clutch.  That way it won't lurch when you first put it into gear.

However, it really does help to find TDC for "the kick".  With a single, there's only spark on one stroke, whereas with a twin (or more) your power strokes are at least doubles.  It also helps prevent a mis-fire during the kick, whch can really hurt when it kicks back.   I don't know from Harleys, but that was true for my Indians and BMW twins.

[tooseevee]

Good Morning Agent X,

           Sssshhhh. I'm whispering so none of the other agents overhear ;>)

            I don't know what the kicks with the key off do, but I've been kickstarting my own harleys for 50 years (I'm 73) & with most of them this is what works so when I picked up this Enfield (which I love) I just kept on doing it when it's cold. Kickstart harleys all have a starting ritual that you must learn from each engine or they will KILL you. I'm just used to kicking over a bike a few times with the key off when it's cold.  The one I ride now (which I built from scratch including the engine, a '77 shovel) wants TWO kicks with the key Off, then two with the enrichener pulled (S&S) & the key on when it's cold.

             When my '08 Enfield is warm I usually don't kick it at all with the key off. Not necessary. If warm, but it doesn't start by the second kick, I know it has cooled off enough to want the enrichener pulled. With that done it starts on the first kick. This ritual may change as my mileage increases (there's only 180 on it now). Who knows? This is something you must learn from living with your individual bike (or bikes). 

PS: I avoid the electric start on the Enfield like the plague.   And I always kill it with the decompressor.   

[GreenMachine]

tooseevee/Uncle - I second both of these gentlemen suggestions re. kickstarting...Very rarely do I get frustrated with kickstarting...If it happens its because I did something different or lost focus on the technique...Beside its fun and for some reason I like to do it with a chick or  children watching assuming I don't screw it up which has been known to happen especially when its a chick..Hey I'm just being honest and I'm not the only one guilty of bad starting techniques...

[AgentX]

All the old Enfields I looked at had decomp levers.   My new-model 350 Electra has none...

The manual only says "1: slightly crank engine further until compression eases over.  2: start the motorcycle with a powerful swinging kick."  That's all it tells me about kickstarting!

Thus, you guys are a gold mine.

[randombikerdude]

Soo I spent a few hours practicing the zen of kickstarting, I could hear the engine beginning to turn over but not completely.. I was reading some other posts, so do I even need the decompression lever? What does it do? Also, will I cause any damage to the break trying unsuccessfully kickstarting?

[UncleErnie]

The AVL is different from the iron barrels in several ways that aren't especially apparent in on-line picitures.  One of the ways is the "decomp".  That little lever is basically useless on the AVL.
As mentioned in that other thread; get the kick lever to where it has a LOT of resistance.  Then put it at about 10 or 9 o'clock (you can do this easy by pulling the clutch) and just use your body weight to bounce a little until it moves a tiny bit.  That should put you just a hair past TDC. 
Then let the lever come all the way back up.
With key on, check the kill switch is off, gas and choke on -do not twist the throttle- kick very firmly through all the way.

If by "break" youo mean "brake"- no.  The brakes have nothing to do with the starting process.  In fact- just the opposite.

[Rosetap]

With a fresh spark plug, I just ease my AVL over TDC and give it a lazy kick.  Sometimes it surprises me how easily it just...starts.

Fouled plugs are another matter, tho.

[GreenMachine]

just the technique u got to develop over time....after 4 years I have it down pat but if I'm in a rush or not paying attention I end up screwing it up...I always screw it up in front of a pretty girl...a bunch of guys here do it too...

[randombikerdude]

I meant, could I do any damage to the bike if I don't follow the steps/technique to get the bike started? like could I screw up the engine if I don't have it Top Dead Center when I kick, or sometimes I kick and its really easy as if it's not catching anything.

[UncleErnie]

No.

OTOH, you might end up hurting yourself- but I'll let you figure that out how the hard way.
    

[FXMASTER75]

I have an 08 AVL Milly that the sprag broke around 15K. Had it all removed and never looked back. I prefer a dismounted kick w/ bike on center stand. Walk out in the garage slowly roll the lever down till I feel some compression. Kick her and she fires right up. Doesnt matter what the temp is. She fires up at 20 or 105. If I get a valve a little too tight she doesnt like to start.

[Lady_Enfield]

Chicks dig the kickstart....they also dig scars.

tooseevee/Uncle - I second both of these gentlemen suggestions re. kickstarting...Very rarely do I get frustrated with kickstarting...If it happens its because I did something different or lost focus on the technique...Beside its fun and for some reason I like to do it with a chick or  children watching assuming I don't screw it up which has been known to happen especially when its a chick..Hey I'm just being honest and I'm not the only one guilty of bad starting techniques...

[UncleErnie]

Cool!  Post pictures of your scars!

[GreenMachine]

depends where they are....don't be embarrassed, we can handle it..

[Lady_Enfield]

I am from Missouri....have to "show me"

depends where they are....don't be embarrassed, we can handle it..

[YJake]

I usually just turn the key and wait for the buzzing noise it makes when it wakes up to stop before I give it one swift kick. Works with 1 kick every time.  

But I have that new confounded EFI nonsense.  

But seriously, I have used a kicker on old Honda's and trail bikes without starters plenty before the Enfield. To be honest, the Enfield was the first bike that I had ever used an electric start on and it was when it died in traffic because I had not let it warm up before heading out   Talk about a "moment of truth" situation!

Also, I leave the engine at TDC before I get off of it every time it is parked. This way i can just turn the key, kick, and thunder off into the sunset   (With all of the pretty ladies watching of course!)

-Jake

[Gromit42]

  Which brings up and interesting point.  Both of my fuelie bikes recommend shutting the engine off with the key and only using the kill switch in emergencies.  Been doing that for years now.

I don't use the key or the kill switch to turn off,but hit the decompressor. Works well and have found that it makes starting easier the next time.

Kim