[Blue Ridge Wheeltor]

http://money.cnn.com/2010/12/27/markets/oil_commodities/index.htm

There goes the economy.

[scoTTy]

yea the guys that play the futures.. gotta love them... NOT

[clamp]

Oh stop whinging --its already 11 dollar in Europe.

    1 pound 70 pence a liter x 4.4= 7,48

     7.48 x 1.55 =  11.5 us dollar. per 4.4 liter gallon.

     Wanna but a cheap Hummer?

    The rest of the world is fuel concious, in India  RE  500's are not popular and most cars stop the engine at traffic lights.

     Youve had your time,--its all over,--time to get serious and be a team player.     

[scoTTy]

yea but your taxes are higher..

HuMmer//  erg..  

team player?  

I don't join clubs

cu later

gotta work in th am  almost midnight here , us old people can't keep up the pace like we  use 2

[robbw]

Saw this on the local news tonight.  Pretty soon driving will be a luxury for those who can afford the exorbitant gas prices.  Time for an alternative fuel.  I wonder how I can convert my RE to use fuel made from corn which is plentiful in the Pacific Northwest.

[clamp]

Electric is the way to go. Did you see that drag bike that Orange county Chppers made

 166 MPH in 7 something seconds.

   Electric is always on the power no gearbox required.

   Saw a guy do it in US with an old Camaro it laid rubber when he had finished it.

[robbw]

Electric is the way to go. Did you see that drag bike that Orange county Chppers made

 166 MPH in 7 something seconds.

   Electric is always on the power no gearbox required.

   Saw a guy do it in US with an old Camaro it laid rubber when he had finished it.

Hmm. Yes, electric might be another good option.  Anyone else have any good alternative power source ideas?

[Ice]

The corn we currently turn into alcohol for E10 and E85 gas,,,turn that into bio diesel instead.

[Lahti35]

http://money.cnn.com/2010/12/27/markets/oil_commodities/index.htm

There goes the economy.

Short, sweet and unfortunately correct.

We have had our time and down we go. Greed has wrecked it for everybody, we can thank the people who can't see past increasing their wealth for that one.

Of course the media will plaster this type of hype all over and folks will freak. By action $5 gas will come true. I had an aunt like that, panicked over whatever and immediately tied to hype up everyone around her

[single]

When $5 gas comes,I will buy it.When I had a job at a gas station,1962,whenever we had a "gas war",the price would go down to $.19.When the war was over it would go all the way back up to $.28.I have a Geo Metro for $5 gas.50mpg at 65mph.I do not see electric cars as much of a solution when the range is so short and no place to plug in.100 mile range with lots of outlets all over the place would start to make sense.Takes too long to recharge.Been hearing for 50 years that this technology is just about to take off.Any day now.Public transit is the way to go,may as well get used to it.Put all them rails back down and run electric TRAINS on 'em.Bring back the trolley cars,more tracks,take 'em right on out to the suburbs.Amish out here still using horses for motive power,get along pretty good.Got some good lookin' critters,too.Always look well fed and groomed.Go right along.I slow down for them and kinda creep past,even when meeting them on the narrow roads.They smile and wave.The folks in the buggies,I mean.$5 gas don't mean much to them.

[UncleErnie]

Batter power being "green" is a cruel myth.  Where do youo think electricity comes from- trees?  And, the metals that go into cell-phones and those re-chargable batteries comes from Africa.  They're about to totally rape the Senghetti by building a road through the middle of it with 4 lane traffic so they can tansport those metals to port faster.  Say good-bye to the biggest migration in the owrld and endangered species that live there and don't get trucks.

[Blue Ridge Wheeltor]

Uncle Ernie is very concerned about the environment, and has been working on an alternative energy source for quite awhile now, along with his buddy Algore.

[single]

That's right,Uncle Ernie.Private transport of any sort is just another path to the same place.Except bicycles and critters.Walking is still ok.It costs me as much to fill Jolly as it cost to fill my Studebaker in 1962.I do get the money is worth less now,of course.

[Blue Ridge Wheeltor]

here he is now, testing out an alternative energy.

[dogbone]

a new note to "blow it out your ass"
Fortunatly I go 200 miles on 3 gallons, in the summer, but the winter ride doesn't fare so well, using the remote start may be a thing of the past.
WHY doesn't  Detroit stop making them faster, we have needed economy since 1974

[GreenMachine]

lets see if they (media)scream about gas hitting 5 bucks a gallon....different president now and politics...I'll drive my little accent now and the enfield too...I think everyone will bend over as usual and do what they are told...As hateful as it sounds, I won't feel sorry for these people driving these huge vehicles with one or two people in them......You would have figured that a different mindset would have set in 2 years ago when it hit almost 4 bucks a gallon...People don't really change unless conditions make them..I'm still waiting for filling with h2o and drop in a pill and give the old gas tank a good shake...

[single]

I am glad I do not have to make any more trips to Michigan to bring my worthless possessions to Missouri.

[boggy]

Are things like hydro, solar, and wind farms not green?  I'm asking because I don't know but assumed they were.

[Lahti35]

I've seen Mad Max, its only a matter of time!
 
One day you're out having a picnic and the next some guy named "The Toe cutter" and his bro's kill you for your tank full of juice

[mikail gransee]

The corn we currently turn into alcohol for E10 and E85 gas,,,turn that into bio diesel instead.

During the war (ww2) the German army ran alcohol in there machines just fine...and that was when? I have an old Motor Trend mag that talks of a 50 mpg carb...what system do cars run off? And what really is that oxygen sensor for?...I remember when Regan put solar panels on the White House. And the next guy took 'em off.  BUT remember our government is here to HELP.

[blueberry]

My wife's car = 25 mpg, my truck = 20 mpg, our RE = 68.5 mpg, our Honda 250 = 75 mpg, Honda 90 = 100 mpg. All per U.S. gal. I'm now looking for a cheap used scooter 125 cc or under to use for short runs to the store and running errands. I intend to outfit it with as many baskets and bags as I safely can. I don't like using any of our vehicles unless I go at least 10 miles. IMHO, its the short runs that give poor mileage and doesn't heat the oil long enough to burn off moisture. With an old cheap scooter, who cares? IMHO some of us Americans have been spoiled by low gas prices and have been lead into buying what the auto makers want us to buy. The bigger and more complacated, the better. For them, not us.

[robbw]

The corn we currently turn into alcohol for E10 and E85 gas,,,turn that into bio diesel instead.

Or grease from your local diner.  This is becoming a popular choice as well.  Lord knows there is plenty of grease available in our country.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0718/p01s04-ussc.html

[cyrusb]

Then, to save us money, Chevy saves the day with its $35,000 Volt. And that is the base price. $35000 could buy an awful lot of even $5 dollar a gallon gas. Who the hell are they kidding? Hang on to your Geo Metro's until these guys come to their senses.

[1Blackwolf1]

a new note to "blow it out your ass"
Fortunatly I go 200 miles on 3 gallons, in the summer, but the winter ride doesn't fare so well, using the remote start may be a thing of the past.
WHY doesn't  Detroit stop making them faster, we have needed economy since 1974

  Oh but they did the previously mentioned Metros got at least 50 mpg, mine got over 70 mpg highway.  Chevy had a V8 back in the 50s' that got over 80 mpg.  What happened?  OPEC and investors wanting to get rich.  Plain and simple..and everyone believing they needed a sub 20 mpg SUV.  The Metro with its' 3 cylinder Suzy engine squashed..the Chevy never produced.  Big oil and big car makers needed to make more bucks.  Cross investing..buyouts, the list keeps on going.

[GreenMachine]

same ole crap....i thought 2 years ago their might be a significant shift but alas just a bit of movement..i always wonder what those old low compression v8 engines got for mileage with those steel body containers in the 40/50's..

[RBHoge]

$5.00 per gallon?   Hmmm. I guess I will need to find something that gets more than 80 M.P.G. and retire my Bullet.   The Mazda only gets 40 M.P.G.  .. I ride my Bullet when the temperature is above freezing! (In Tennessee that has not been for a few weeks, and about four more till riding weather resumes.)  

[single]

GreenMachine-50s mileage.It varied quite a bit from  car to car.I have owned Studebaker V8s that were able to get 24mpg.A Hudson that would get 23,it was a flat head 6.My fathers' 53 Buick straight 8 20+.My Uncles' Packard also got 20mpg.But I have known of 6s that never got 20 and 8s that were stuck at about 15-17.A lot of Buicks got around 20.Around town mileage really nose dived for the heavier cars.For the most part,a car that would get 20mpg and run 120mph was respected.

[r80rt]

It's a matter of perspective, my C5 gets roughly 372.000 rods per keg, sounds much better that way

[clamp]

After the war  Lanacster bombers --hundreds of them fueled and ready to go were sold for 50 pounds --75 dollars.

      The fuel in them was worth more than the alluminium.

    Oh I wish I had one today.  I drove the crane that removed the propellors off the last Lancaster in the world. Blackpool airport which was ironically one air field where they were made.    She still flies today.

   When BAC took over the airfield Lancasters were used to send parts to local airfields.

   After that we used  ubiquitous dakota's or DC 3

     Ooops I hope I have'nt let any official secrets out.

[1Blackwolf1]

GreenMachine-50s mileage.It varied quite a bit from  car to car.I have owned Studebaker V8s that were able to get 24mpg.A Hudson that would get 23,it was a flat head 6.My fathers' 53 Buick straight 8 20+.My Uncles' Packard also got 20mpg.But I have known of 6s that never got 20 and 8s that were stuck at about 15-17.A lot of Buicks got around 20.Around town mileage really nose dived for the heavier cars.For the most part,a car that would get 20mpg and run 120mph was respected.

  I had a '63 Rambler 2 door with the small straight six and the push button auto that got around 28 mpg.  My grand father had a Studebaker that got around 35 mpg..but that had the lean burn system on it that allowed the engine to run mostly on fumes at highway speeds. 

  I've often wondered if we put a supercharged 750 Honda engine in a car what the possible outcome could be.

[clamp]

There is a racing car class that uses the suzuki Hyabusa engine but they have to go round corners so you americans wont like that bit.

[Ice]

Are things like hydro, solar, and wind farms not green?  I'm asking because I don't know but assumed they were.

Yes the are green.

 Unfortunately on a commercial scale they are very expensive and have a long, long pay back period, sometimes not at all 

[Kevin Mahoney]

We have a reality problem in this country (many countries really). For the most part "Green" means nothing. For example the use of ethanol made of plant stocks is the biggest hoax every perpetrated on the American public. It is about as green as a badly tuned 1974 dodge Powerwagon.

The current generation of electric cars have little or no gain in carbon footprint by the time you figure in how much coal. was burned to make the electricity. Some of the batteries are so expensive you have to "lease them".

Green means nothing at all, It is a marketing tool only. In the long run I am sure that some electrical technology will come together that will make sense, or maybe ethanol make from something more cost and socially effective than food stocks.

The RE gets great mileage, has exceptionally low tail pipe emission and is about 100% recycle-able, is that green?

[clamp]

Yes you do lease the batteries, thats how it will work. As it is now  you drive in to the gas station and fil with gas dont you?    it takes 5 minutes. 

     The same with battery lease but takes 55 seconds, same mileage from the batts as a tank of gas.

    There is just one problem  acceptance of it.

     The footprint of the electricity required in carbon emission from a modern power station is miniscule in comparison.

[Maturin]

Yes you do lease the batteries, thats how it will work. As it is now  you drive in to the gas station and fil with gas dont you?    it takes 5 minutes.
     The same with battery lease but takes 55 seconds, same mileage from the batts as a tank of gas.
    There is just one problem  acceptance of it.
     The footprint of the electricity required in carbon emission from a modern power station is miniscule in comparison.

You forgot the battery itself, Clamp. The resurces required to build and dispose such a complex machinery do actually outweight it´s saving versus a combustion engine, not to mention the necessary infrastructure that is unfortunately not sent down from heaven.
Kevin is right mentioning that "green" is degenerated into a commercial term. It´s very complicated to find out individual ecological balance sheets when you compare activities or machinery that are composed of countless details, every single one important for the big picture.
Alas, one simple rule is always right: less power - less consumption (see also Bullet ). Politicians in my country say, that an affordable price for gasoline "ensures mobility for everybody" but I wonder why so many people have to ensure their mobility by dragging 2-ton-4-wheel-driven-350 HP-monsters through old town Munich  .
It´s undeniable dumb to drive a distance shorter than 3km with a car, no matter how it is powered. But in Germany the govermental statistics say, that 25% of all car journeys are shorter than 3 km! Besides, the gas price here is 1,48€/liter of 96 octane super. This behavior sugests that according the law of a free market economy, gasoline is yet much to cheap, if all the fuss is really about mobility and not about egos.

[Ice]

Smoke Yunick's adiabatic engine would be considered green if it had been accepted.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_1009_what_ever_happened_to_smokeys_hot_vapor_engine/index.html

[clamp]

You forget that  combustion engine requires ancilleries, radiator alcahol coolant,exhast system ,catalytic convertor, gearbox , clutch,, turbos, carburretors, fuel tanks, air filters etc, let alone engine management senders and accomanying electronics.

  all those factories heating workers to compliment the combustion engine and those workers using cars to get to work.
 
  A combustion engine not only puts out toxic gases but wasted heat 60% of the fuel is made into unwanted heat.

    Rented batteries and an electric motor, thats it.

[Ice]

Click the link in the post above. Some versions of Smokey Yunick's engine used no radiator had no management computer or sensors  and required no catalyst.

The hybrid cars of today can't function without a management system. Even the current crop of Electric Powered Vehicles make use of computers and sensors.

[Kevin Mahoney]

According to the Internet (so it must be true) the vehicle with the lowest carbon footprint at present is a good Hybrid. A present day electric vehicle is better than an all gas powered vehicle.

My objection to the whole thing is that we are getting political solutions to a real problem. Ethanol is the best example. A worthless and terrible solution that we are subsidizing as taxpayers is the production of this wasteful product. It is only in existence because of a strong farm lobby and exists to put money in corn growers pockets.

While I am on my soapbox I own a Chevy Suburban which is one of the biggest SUV;s you can buy. I really get tired of someone in a 1982 Volvo station wagon complaining about SUV's. At 55mph I get an honest 22 mpg and it burns ab out 10 times cleaner than a pre 2000 model vehicle of any kind.

Many small cars don't get that high of real world mileage. The reason is technology. My engine shuts down to 4 cylinders on the highway. It is seamless and really works. Combined with advanced catalysts and computer controls new cars are way ahead of anything in the past.

I am not suggesting that the world would be a better place if we all switched to Suburbans, but perspective is in order.

[Ice]

 At 20 MPG, 1 gallon takes six people 20 miles ,,lemme see that's what,,,1/6th of a gallon per person to go 20 miles right ?

At 60 MPG my Bullet takes me 10 miles on that 1/6 of a gallon !

 So If I ride two up my bullet can get not quite the same fuel economy per person as the Suburban but it has room for two more people ?!!

Whooda thunk it 

[PhilJ]

Good observation Ice. So why are we riding these funny machines anyway? 

[prof_stack]

Good observation Ice. So why are we riding these funny machines anyway? 

Pleasure riding, for the most part. 

I don't commute the 4.5 miles to work on the Bullet.  It takes too long just to get ATTGATTed and the bike to warm up.  I either take the cage or go by two-cylinder leg power.

[GreenMachine]

yes I'm guilty of denouncing Suburbans....Of course most of the time I'm on my little Enfield and one always seems to be coming at me...Maybe it just seems that way...I dd not know the newer ones switch over to 4 cyl mode....Learn something today...

[clamp]

Dont forget 4 wheel drive has transfer boxes and reductions and extra shafts all turning even if not selected .

      Things dont turn for free.  I hate these women driving range rovers, since when did you need 4 wheel drive to go to tescos.

    I got more money that you so I can so there!

   Its time for the reciprocating engine to die, 100 years and more, its gotten pretty good but its time has come.   Especially the v8 push rod American iron.

   My mazda diesel pick up uses 13 KM to a liter and thats bad compared to a common rail.

    I cant wait for electric, if I can get batts or charge up Im having one.

[scoTTy]

filled my tank at $3.08 this morning.. It was $2.98 this evening at the same place

can we say gouging at the pump

[GreenMachine]

probably be 4 by memorial day....better keep the enfield tuned..

[clamp]

If your really concerned you could dope your high octane with deisel or even more so with parraffin if its cheaper.

   I am of the opinion that Seafoam --an american "mechanic in a bottle" product is parraffin. I bought a liter bottle and dumped the lot in my Intrder 1400   50/50 it ran as though I had not.

   Avgas if you can steal  a bit.

    During the war parraffin was used , start on petrol then turn a tap to parraffin .By this time the parraffin feed that pipe that was wrapped around the exhaust was good and hot.

   Change/ convert to propane,--strap a 14kg bottle on the back,--- easy

[scoTTy]

propane ..  ha..  checked out that for the garage..  mobile heater so I can hang out and work on my various machines,,  figgure out to be close to 4 dollars an hr..  I can be cold for less than that..  and it is close to 50 degres F tonight..  bring on spring

[clamp]

Scotty I was sooo hot last sunday washing the bike I just put the hose on my head to cool me down.   Soooo thirsty I just stick the hose im my mouth and hold it there for 10 seconds.

      Then I spray the monkeys with it that come down and steal e-v-e-r-y-thing.

    What,-- I ask does a crab eating Macac want with a sponge and a bottle of washing up liquid.

[scoTTy]

i bet u smell preet sweet right now.. i smell like keroscene

do you still have slow u tube dial up

?

hope not

here U go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XNqHGSr-es&NR=1

[clamp]

      Man that is shite music.

      I gave it a full 4 seconds.

[mikail gransee]

   I am of the opinion that Seafoam --an american "mechanic in a bottle" product is parraffin. I bought a liter bottle and dumped the lot in my Intrder 1400   50/50 it ran as though I had not.

 

It helps to get the water out of the gas in the states..

[clamp]

It  helps the water to mix in with the gas!!

    In which case you can simply add methylated spirit which mixes with water and fuel, what the hell that equates to in American I don't know

[1 Thump]

Green ? I ll tell you what is green :

http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/

[scoTTy]

600 a month, 3 year lease?

[PhilJ]

In years past, before someone allowed oil into the futures market, gas/oil was a stable commodity. If the govt. was worried about the effect of high fuel costs on the economy, getting oil off the futures mkt would go a very long way to stabilizing costs.

[ROVERMAN]

Thanks Phil j,spot on.

[1 Thump]

At 20 MPG, 1 gallon takes six people 20 miles ,,lemme see that's what,,,1/6th of a gallon per person to go 20 miles right ?

At 60 MPG my Bullet takes me 10 miles on that 1/6 of a gallon !

 So If I ride two up my bullet can get not quite the same fuel economy per person as the Suburban but it has room for two more people ?!!

Whooda thunk it 

There is a findamental flaw in this logic. It is the assumption that the suburban is driven with 6 people in it at all times. That changes a lot of things.

[1 Thump]

600 a month, 3 year lease?

This is basic demand and supply. At this time they are basically covering their RnD costs, if that. With time the price will come down as competetion builds. Remember plsma TV's, DVD players, cellphones were for the wealthy people only when they came out. Not anymore.

[r80rt]

We'll burn dinosaur bones till they are gone, if we had any thing better we would be using it.

[1Blackwolf1]

We'll burn dinosaur bones till they are gone, if we had any thing better we would be using it.

  I vote for dilithium crystals myself.  Then I could hit warp drive.

[RBHoge]

  I had a '63 Rambler 2 door with the small straight six and the push button auto that got around 28 mpg.  My grand father had a Studebaker that got around 35 mpg..but that had the lean burn system on it that allowed the engine to run mostly on fumes at highway speeds. 

The car I learned to drive in was a 1962 Rambler Classic 4 door with a three speed, manual transmission (with an overdrive rear end). My GAWD, what a piece of S#!t.  My Dad bought the car at a good discount. it was the end of the model year, and the dealer unloaded the "Demonstrator" on my father.  The dealer had souped up the demonstrator with a dual barrel carburettor, hot cams, etc. As a result the "Demonstrator" was more powerful than a "stock" 62 Rambler Classic. Also, the damned thing never got better than 12 M.P.G.  with 6 M.P.G. the normal around town mileage. 
  With two teenage sons, driving it , it wasn't long before Dad replaced it with a Fiat 600d which got 45 M.P.G. around town and 50 on the highway.  It was dreadfully slow on the interstate struggling wide open at 60 M.P.H. while everybody else zoomed past at 75.  This was when I learned to avoid interstate highways (a routing habit which I continue with my Royal Enfield.)

[r80rt]

  I vote for dilithium crystals myself.  Then I could hit warp drive.

Will moth balls work?

[1Blackwolf1]

  For a short distance. .  Good old Naptha and you.

[Bullet.wagon]

I've installed a flux capacitor.and it helps with starting too.

[1Blackwolf1]

I've installed a flux capacitor.and it helps with starting too.

  Dog gone it..you bought the last one from under me.  Now all I can do is think of how nice it would have been..

[Ice]

There is a findamental flaw in this logic. It is the assumption that the suburban is driven with 6 people in it at all times. That changes a lot of things.

 Nahhw mate,,,,no flaws,,, no assumptions,,,, its ironic humor in a dry in a wry fashion,,, check the emoticon at the end.



 Riding instead of driving whenever possible saves me between $1,500 and $3,000 per year and that is nothing to laugh at.


Modified to correct p0re SpeellinNg and ghramaticul errors  

[boggy]

I've installed a flux capacitor.and it helps with starting too.

You got screwed man... those things only work if you can hit 88mph.