[josephl]

Bought a 2004 Classic.  It is the standard electric start, four speed, left shift model.  Got it running fine, but an oxen couldn't shift it.  Since I've worked on Brit bikes for years, I assumed it would be easy to fix.  Did the normal lubes and checks, set the clutch shaft properly, and found that even with the cable fully extended I couldn't get the drag out of the clutch, or the bike to shift properly.  The clutch is fine BTW and plates will spin freely, but there  just does not seem to be enough clutch adjustment.  I thought that maybe the clutch cable had stretched so I replaced it.  Same thing.  But, the clutch cable has only the mid'line adjustment--no adjustment at the clutch lever or at the transmission.  I presume the bike came fitted this way--with only the one adjuster--that's a question??  Now, should I add an adjuster at the clutch lever? 
Also I read here that it will shift poorly if the drive chain is too tight.  Exactly how much free play is best with me sitting on the bike?  Thanks for any help.

[enfield freddy]

go back one stage and recheck things , the clutch pushrod , is split into 2 parts , is there a ball brg inbeteen them , if not add one! , on that year of bike (in the UK at least) there are 3 adjusters , the clutch , half way down the cable and one at the lever

all is not lost , just time and patcience ,

[MotoJ]

Did you actually adjust the clutch actuator lever under the inspection plate just below the neutral finder? It's hard to tell from your post. Swing the plate out of the way, loosen the lock nut, back off the slotted screw, then turn it in until you feel resistance, back off a quarter turn or less, then tighten the nut. You should loosen the cable all the way first. Then ride and repeat.

It took me a few tries but now the bike shifts pretty well. You really need to ride the bike though- just trying to get through the gears while it's on the stand doesn't give you a true indication of how well the adjustment is working. If you stick your finger in the other inspection plate, where the cable ends at the adjuster arm there should be just a tiny bit of back and forth free play. I mean tiny. Once the bike is hot, fine tune the adjustments at the halfway nuts and finally the handlebar spin adjuster. I also adjusted the ratchet mechanism so there's equal bits of ratchet plate visible through the overplate holes.  Easy to do, especially with the Snidal manual.

[MotoJ]

One thing I forgot to mention- the clutch cable needs to be stretched out- that's why you need to ride and repeat. It took a quite few miles and lots of shifting before I was done adjusting on my new cable- they stretch A LOT.

Also, are you really missing the adjuster at the handlebars? It's easy to see where it goes at the bar mount bracket. You'll see the female threaded place it goes. It's a threaded collar with a slot and a 1" diameter knurled spin adjuster, also slotted. You know what I'm talking about. You definitely should have that for adjustment on the fly.

If all that fails, check the ratchet mechanism. I had a broken spring. There are two wishbone spring steel springs in there that are the ratchet return and shifter return springs. Also, there's a T- shaped shifter dog and a circular shifter plate thingy that have teeth corresponding to each other. If the teeth are rounded off the bike will slip through the gears and never register- false neutrals all the way. And without the springs you won't be able to change from gear to gear up or down.

Sorry to be so verbose, but I just went through all this and I know it's maddening.

Good luck!

[Chasfield]

As per MotoJ on the clutch actuator mech. A small adjustment to the screw and lock nut on the actuator where it bears on the push rod will take up/give back loads of cable slack. I don't have a secondary adjuster on the clutch lever but get by fine with the mid cable adjuster, once the push rod and actuator are set up properly.

I go for just detectable free movement of the actuator arm with the cable adjuster slackened off. The thin gear box end cover distorts so easily when you pull in the clutch that you can't afford to dial in too much running clearance - that clutch lift mech. only just provides enough lift.

[josephl]

As I mentioned earler, I'm familiar with the adjustment procedure as it's the same on my Triumph/BSAs.  However, I've never had one of these bikes where there isn't a clutch grip adjuster.  This bike apparently came without an adjuster at the grips for either the clutch or front brake as I bought it from the original owner and he didn't modify anything on the bike.  I also found a photo of an 03 Bullit without adjusters, so I'm assuming they were never there.  I'm pretty sure the clutch cable was original and did not have an adjuster at the tranny either, just the one in the center of the cable.
As for the actuator rod(s), I removed everything and it looked fine.  The ball bearing is in the rod assembly and the ball in the end of the actual rod adjuster is there.  I put it together with just a hint of freeplay.  Put on a new clutch cable (same as the original) and still couldn't get enough clutch lift--clutch lever action--to stop drag or shift properly.  I removed the clutch assembly last night and the plates all look fine and are not worn or warped.  All I can conclude is that I need an additional adjuster at the grip or tranny so I can get more lift.  I haven't pulled the tranny case to examine internal mechanisms, but I suppose that will have to be next..............Thanks.

[MotoJ]

Wow, that's puzzling. Did the PO have problems? The only thing I can think of next is a longer rod, an extra ball bearing, or a shorter cable to get you the lift. Shorter springs might help the clutch separate the discs more too. If you take the cover off and look at the end of the rod, how much is protruding? I think it should be about 1/4-5/16"

[josephl]

I bought the bike not running, so didn't quiz the previous owner about the clutch.  Supposedly running when parked, but needed a pushrod repair, which I did.  He's off on vacation so I can't ask him about the clutch but he really doesn't know much about bikes.  I did try another ball bearing, but then there isn't enough room to screw in the rod adjuster.  As for the rod protruding (?) it's just even with the inside ridge of the case and things just wouldn't work if it were longer.  I do find the clutch mechanism odd as the springs are almost completely collapsed (very tight) when assembled, so it takes quite a lot of prossure to lift the clutch.  And, there is VERY LITTLE clutch lift when adjusted, just enough to get slight disengagement.  The Triumphs and BSAs all get more lift.  So that's why I was thinking of adding the grip adjuster to get a little more lift.  The cable is correct (same as the old one) and new.

[Chasfield]

If need be, my clutch push rod adjustment screw can be set so that the actuator arm is pushed outwards to the furthest limit of its travel, and the mid cable adjuster can be set to remove all trace of free play - so packing the cable out with an extra adjuster would achieve nothing on my bike.

I wonder if your clutch stack is of standard depth - maybe somebody tried an extra plain and friction plate in there to overcome clutch slip. That could account for your springs being a bit bound up. The standard 4 speed 500 pack has 2 dished plain steel plates, 2 flat plain steel plates and 4 plates lined with friction material.

[josephl]

I had the plates out and cleaned them.  Right number of plates and in the correct order.

[1Blackwolf1]

  May not help much but did you grease up the rods and ball bearing for the engagement rod?

[MotoJ]

I don't get it. The rod has to be proud of the ridge on the domed cover inside the shifter box or there's nothing for the greased bearing on the actuator to push. The bearing pushes on end of the rod, which pushes the interior bearing, in turn pushing the rod with the pad, which pushes and separates the plates. On my bike that rod protrudes 1/4" past the ridge.

[daves02ES]

On my 2002, the adjuster at the clutch (under the inspection plate) takes very little adjustment to make it or break it. As little as 1/8 turn (or less) between slip or drag. A very touchy adjustment. Also, mine does not have the adjuster at the lever, only mid point on the cable and under the inspection plate.

[daves02ES]

Also, from another post on clutch adjustment Mike had this reply:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LSM- I have found NZ Tim's procedure to be dead-on.
Give it a try...   Mike
<><<><><><><><><><><>>>><><><>

I have found the clutch adjustment very very fine... A difference of 1/8 of a turn on the adjustment nut makes the difference between slip and drag. Make sure that you cable is not kinked, well lubricated, and runs as straight as you can possible achieve. Do not over fill the primary case with oil; just enough oil to cover the bottom run of the chain on the clutch chain wheel. Do not use engine oil! Loosen off the cable adjuster, adjust the push rod clearance so that it just touches the rod, back it of 1/8 of a turn and carefully tighten the lock nut. Then take up the slack in the cable.
 Assuming that your plates are still serviceable,
 if it still slips, back the adjuster off another 1/8 of a turn. If it drags when hot, increase by 1/8 of a turn.
Tim N.Z.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW, I use a full quart of ATF type F in the primary with good results.

Dave

[josephl]

OK, let's back up a bit.  Remember the problem was the bike wouldn't shift and there didn't seem to be enough adjustment in the cable even when everything seemed to be set up properly.  Now, I noticed when I removed the clutch that the springs were very tight--looked fully collapsed.  I just too the clutch out again and something really puzzles me.  If I install the springs using about 3/4 of the three bolts, the clutch seems as if it operates as it should--the pressure plate pushes away properly, the lever feels fine, the plates separate, etc.  However, if you (I) torque the three bolts down--as the manuals seem to say to do--then the springs are collapsed and the clutch won't work--actually, it can't because it is now bolted down firm to the clutch basket.  So, what's the deal?  I looked in the repair manual and there don't seem to be any missing parts.  How tight are the springs supposed to be and how do you know when you get there?

[josephl]

1) Levers are the Minda Electric Start Levers with the black body.

2) Yes, the plates are installed properly; per Snidal drawing, same as I removed them.

3) If you tighten down until you hit the pillars the springs are collapsed and the  clutch  won't/can't move.  It seems you have to stop tightening the springs before they're fully collapsed, but what is the procedure?

[enfield freddy]

electric start levers HAVE adjusters ? you said no adjusters fitted?

look again at that PDF i  sent you , if you tigten the cover to meet the 3 pillors the springs will be compressed but not flattened ? seems that the PO has payed arount with the bike?

1: levers

2: cutting / modding the clutch?

I would be tempted to having a visit to my local dealer , and checking the levers out , also looking/measuring a clutch drum

[josephl]

Nope!  If you tighten the cover to meet the pillions the springs I have are absolutely flat and there is no way the clutch can release.  I don't think anything has been changed with the clutch, but who knows.  The only way the suggest procedure would work is if the pillions were longer.

I live in Indiana and there is no dealer, but lots of places where I can get adjusters that will fit the lever assembly. 

[enfield freddy]

ok my friend , you are a long way from me (i,m in the UK) , I have a spare clutch hub here , and can measure the lengh of the pillors , your springs should be able to get a feeler guage between the coils ,

can you locate a set of springs?


 it is almost 1 am UK time so i can,t get to the garage , however the free lengh ofa (orange) spring ,,, which is the medium/heavy duty one is 32mm long (uncompressed and has 7 coils , , if you need further measurments etc , please pm me and i will try to help , I have the later (black/dogleg) levers fitted to my caf racer , they have adjusters , photo,s if you need them

EF

[josephl]

The installed springs are yellow, seven coil.  I'll check, but the length is also likely 32mm.  When the plate is torqued down, I don't think you could get a 1mm shim between coils.  There just doesn't seem to be any room for the clutch to release.

[MotoJ]

Could it be the PO cut down the pillar spacers and bolts? He may have been using a shorter rod and tried to make the whole apparatus work by shortening the throw at the clutch itself.

[josephl]

Well, I removed, cleaned and reassembled the clutch again and this time--don't ask me why--there's actually enough spring clearence for the clutch to disengage.  Maybe it was binding on something, though I can't  imagine where or what.  In any eveny, I rode and adjustted until I ran out of time and it sometimes shifts, sometimes doesn't.  At least the clutch mechanism seems to be working and I'll just fool with it until I can figure out why it wants to shift so hard.  Even with the rod adjuster set properly and a dab of freeplay at the grip there is always enough drag to keep the back wheel spinning when you depress the clutch.  I'll keep playing with the rod adjustment, I guess.

[enfield freddy]

buy 4 x barnet clutch plates and then new steel plates from our host , all will be revealed

[josephl]

That really sounds like a plan I can live with.  I've used Barnett's before and they're great.  Thanks.

[enfield freddy]

do you need the part no. ?

4 x 301-28-50001-Bonded Friction Plate - Alloy mfg by barnett

[neil]

Hi:
I've been reading this thread with keen interest. My bike has the same symptoms. I haven't had difficulty in the past but after ordering and getting  new clutch plates and springs from our host, I have had clutch disengagement problems which make it impossible to shift the bike. The first time I tried to put the bike in 1st gear it lunged forward even with the clutch lever all the way up to the handle bar.

The clutch plates are in the bike in the correct order with the ball bearing in between the push rods. The clutch adjustments are completed. I removed the primery outer cover and when the lever is pulled up to the bar very little lifting was apparent by eye examination. This of course was with the three clutch bolts torqued up against the pillars. Next I began to loosen the bolts to take some of the pressure off the plates during clutch compression until I could see the plates lift.

As the bolts were backed off evenly, I could see that the plates were lifting unevenly. I tried adjusting the bolts until the lift was visible and was even side to side. If the writers bike has a similar problem the only answer is to use anti vibration washers under the bolts, to keep them from changing, or shim the pillar heads with washers so torquing the bolts will not compress the springs too much thus preventing the bike from shifting.

This is what I've done. No slip or Drag.