[hocko]

Hi all, Just a quick query, while moving house lately, my owners manual has gone walkabout to places unknown. My rear chain badly needs adjustment, I remember reading that the castle nut and sheerpin are removed and the brake retaining bolt loosened and adjust is done via the adjusters each side . Which if any tool is used in the retensioning, also is the 1" play as recommended on the top of the chain, with someone sitting on the bike or on the centre stand. Any photos would be appreciated.

Thanks  

[prof_stack]

Heh, I just adjusted the chain for the very first time, at 300 miles.

Who thought up having snails adjust your chain?  

Castle nut - 24mm  or  15/16 inch (I used this socket)
Spindle nut - 30mm  or  1 3/16 inch (ditto)
Anchor nut - 19mm (corrected from 18mm)
Brake rod nut - 13mm

I should have marked the snail settings with a Sharpie before I started.  Getting the wheel aligned was all about visual settings from behind the bike.  If there is a more precise way, please broadcast it.

But it all went back together and the chain is tighter, the brake is adjusted back to spec, and the wheel turns freely with no binding, so I have to say it was a success.  

I also changed the oil, but that is for a different thread.

[Vitalc]

I should have marked the snail settings with a Sharpie before I started.  Getting the wheel aligned was all about visual settings from behind the bike.  If there is a more precise way, please broadcast it.

I'm not sure if the rear wheel can be poorly alligned if the snails settings are symetric 

A valid method of alligning both wheels is with a piece of string along the front and rear wheel, 5" above the ground.  Complicated with the centerstand though...

[Ducati Scotty]

I should have marked the snail settings with a Sharpie before I started.  Getting the wheel aligned was all about visual settings from behind the bike.  If there is a more precise way, please broadcast it.

A sharpie is a good start but I took mine off entirely and scribed little marks every 5th notch with a dremel.  It makes it easy to see where I am.  The sharpie wipes off too easily.

If aligning the wheel is too difficult just align the chain.  Take a slim straight edge, a thin metal ruler works well.  Lsy it along the rear sprocket at the lower chain.  It should be in line with the chain.  If it's skewed to one side re-align.  It's better overall to align the wheels but unless your frame is way off this should be fine.  It's how I do it all the time.

Oh, and when it's straight the two snails may be on different notches.

Scott

[prof_stack]

Yeah, I read that the snails are not necessarily going to be symmetric when the wheel is aligned.  Mine appear to be aligned but that is not what I used to get the wheel set.

I could have re-used the cotter pin but have a bunch of them so on went a new one.  It's been decades since I had to adjust a chain!  1986 Sportster, IIRC.

The picture below shows the three main nuts that need loosening.  I was glad to have some seriously big sockets on hand.  It would have been a pain with a crescent wrench!   

After 300 miles the muffler doesn't yet show discoloration near the end as I've seen on others, including the demo.  Maybe that one got the pi$$ run out of it.

[singhg5]

Hi all, Just a quick query, while moving house lately, my owners manual has gone walkabout to places unknown. My rear chain badly needs adjustment, I remember reading that the castle nut and sheerpin are removed and the brake retaining bolt loosened and adjust is done via the adjusters each side .

Which if any tool is used in the retensioning, also is the 1" play as recommended on the top of the chain, with someone sitting on the bike or on the centre stand. Any photos would be appreciated.Thanks  

You have good memory  .  I will only add a couple of lines to what has already been posted.

1.  You do not need to remove any of the nuts - ONLY LOOSEN them.  There are 3 of them for moving wheel - See picture below.  But the 4th nut is for loosening brake.
2.  The rear brake cover anchor nut may be 19 mm size, that is wrench size I use.  Prof wrote 18 mm.  In my tool set there is no 18 mm and 19 mm works fine.
3. The chain play is 2.5 to 3 cm.  Though the manual says top run but all the posts on this Forum think it should be bottom run.  Most people use centre stand but some recommend a person sitting on bike.
4.  The number of notches on the snail adjusters may not be same on the left and right side when the wheel is straight.
 5. I use THICK Sharpie (Permanent Ink- though it can be cleaned by alcohol) on snail adjusters and find it extremely helpful - see in picture below.

[hocko]

Thank you all for your replies, that covers most of my query, just one thing however, what tool do I use to do the actual adjustment of the chain on the chain adjusters each side,  or am I overlooking something here (More often the case  )

Cheers and thanks again 

[2bikebill]

You don't need a tool to turn the snails - just slacken everything enough so you can waggle the wheel a bit if necessary.
Hitchocks sell alternative adjusters  if you can't get on with the snails. A lot of folk here prefer them. I prefer the snails. The alternative adjusters don't have as much adjustment available when the chain starts to "stretch". Also with the snails, once you have your wheels aligned, you know they stay aligned each time you adjust the chain. The new adjusters do allow more precise adjustment though - sometimes the snails give only the option of a bit too loose or a bit too tight.
Equally adjusted snails do not necessarily mean your wheels are aligned. On my G5 the left hand snail needs to be 2 notches more than the right hand for the wheels to be aligned. Most folk seem to use the string method, but for perfect accuracy you can use laser pointers. The dirt cheap ones are fine for this job. here is a link to how to do it.
www.realclassic.co.uk/techfiles/wheelalignment.html
It's a good idea to make a similar jig to clamp to the front wheel for easier sighting. And a bit of fiddling is required to get the beams past the centre stand, so don't stick them to the jig as instructed - you'll need to set them further out.

[hocko]

thanks all again, just adjust by hand.....way to go.

Cheers 

[UncleErnie]

I'm pretty sure CMW has those screw-type adjusters, also.

I use a long aluminium angle set on bricks for a straight edge.
The trick to the snails is keeping the right side tight as you tighten up eerything on the left. 

[davem]

Can you be too fussy about chain adjustment?. I've done 2600 miles on my g5 and i've not adjusted the chain once.It seems to run fine, no snatch at takeoff and changing gear.
I've had it up to 80 mph with no problems.Just wondering.
Briliant forum by the way
Davem

[2bikebill]

Well you can be too fussy about anything. Then there's neglect.....

[davem]

Good answer Will. I see yout point. Then again if it aint broke!!!!!!!!.
Davem

[gashousegorilla]

  Guys, I would not sweat the snail positions all that much. You can mark them it you like. That will only give you an idea of were you were before you loosened everything up. The snails are gonna be where the snails are gonna be, when the rear wheel is inline with the front, and the chain is set right. They may be on a different notch when your done due to chain stretch. Or you have your chain a little tighter of more loose. Don't think anything is wrong if your on a different notch, as long as alignment and the slack in the chain is good. Unless there's some drastic difference.

[singhg5]

Can you be too fussy about chain adjustment?. I've done 2600 miles on my g5 and i've not adjusted the chain once.It seems to run fine, no snatch at takeoff and changing gear.
I've had it up to 80 mph with no problems.Just wondering.
Briliant forum by the way
Davem

It seems your chain is doing well.  Generally these RE chains 'stretch' a bit during intial few hundred miles and require adjustment.  Have you checked the slack in your chain ?  If it is between 2.5 to 3 cm then you don't need to do any adjustment.  Just keep it clean and LUBE it.  

Sometimes there are no symptoms but the chain could be little loose.  When you adjust it, you will feel the difference in the ride - it will feel better.  The bike will respond quicker with throttle.

 

Good answer Will. I see yout point. Then again if it aint broke!!!!!!!!.
Davem

If it does break, it will be lot more expensive to fix the whole thing.  Prevention is better than cure !!!!!!     e.g., Your bike is running fine with dirty oil in it.  When you replace it with clean fresh oil, you can feel the difference in gear shifting and the way it runs.  The same is true of chain adjustment.  

[singhg5]

..... You can mark them it you like. That will only give you an idea of were you were before you loosened everything up.

That is precisely the reason why I mark the snail because it gives me a starting point before I do my next adjustment.  The marks are NOT necessarily on the same notch on the left and right side snails.  The marks are located on notches where the wheel was straight before I forget which notch on right side and which notch on left side was required to keep my rear wheel straight.

When I need to adjust next time, I can turn snails by equal amounts (right and left side) and wheel will be straight - because it started straight and it is moved back equally on both sides.   This saves me time and work of having to check for straightness everytime I do minor adjustment.  After adjustment I test ride the bike to confirm that it is ok, THEN erase the older marks and put new marks on notches.  

[r80rt]

Yep, that's how to do it.

[gashousegorilla]

Yes singh, I agree, and that was basically my point. Although I would check for straightness EVERY time. It does not take that much. Particularly with the C-5's longer swing arm. I would not assume by turning the snails an equal amount, that the wheels are in line. They may very well be , but have a look. It is probably more likely in your case with the G-5's shorter swing arm. Remember, what is causing the snails to be on different spots is due to the unequal way the side rails of the swingarm pull together when tightening the axle. Your adjusting for that with the snails. Your really Straightening the axle in the slot. It probably winds up being close, but have a look to be sure.

[singhg5]

GHG:  Long time back, I had checked straighness of rear wheel using a long string, wrapped around rear wheel going forward to front wheel - there was some obstruction of stand and so on.  But I am not much fan of that method.  I usually check it visually from rear or occasionally see if rear wheel is in the middle of two arms of swing arm.  Anyway, I am not very keen on doing all that again and again. 

Here is my other not so scientific method that works for me.  The principle is that if my rear wheel is REALLY out of alignment, it will affect the direction of my front wheel when I take my hands OFF the handle bar - motorcycle running on flat road  .  So that is my clue - rear wheel is good or not !! 

[gashousegorilla]

 There ya go, common sence. Have a look. Straighten the front end, sight the chain and the wheels. The string thing is a little over the top.

[hocko]

Again thanks, I've just fitted a screen, 110 % improvement, , just to do the chain on the weekend and all will be well. What a great forum !!

[davem]

Thanks for the advice singhg5(wise words) I'll take note and and give the chain more
attention in the future.
cheers Davem

[ieatalot]

The problem I am having is when I go to tighten the rear wheel nut after replacing the rear wheel, the right side backs away from the pin that marks the snail adjuster when I tighten. Any ideas?.

[Arizoni]

Watch the snail as you tighten the nut.  If it starts to move use a straight bladed screw driver and a small hammer to tap it back in position.  Then continue to tighten the nut.

[wildbill]

i just squat at the rear of the bike and push the rear wheel forward. once it locks into position i use a screwdriver through the center pin on the left to hold the shaft then tighten it up 

[no bs]

the brake anchor nut on my 2011 g5 is 18mm. cannot recommend a 19mm wrench on a 18mm fastener. maybe it's different on others?

[mattsz]

Ok, since we're on chain care and wheel alignment, I'll pipe up…

Chain cleaning:  I've been lubing my chain with PJ1 Blue Label spray...



...following the directions, and I get lots of thick black gunk thrown off, on the engine and on my rear wheel.  I've done it directly after a ride when the chain is warm; I've sprayed as little as I could while still coating all the moving bits; I've let it rest overnight to "dry"; I've tried to mop up excess with a rag again and again… all with the same result.  Heck, I even let it rest for 4 months and it still blew chunks when I took it for a spin.  This particular can, incidentally, says nothing about cleaning.  But it does go on clear, so it must be collecting dirt to make it so black.

I'm about to install an o-ring chain, and I'm wondering about this problem.  In theory, the internal moving parts are lubed and protected with the o-rings' help, but I still have to lube the outside, and based on my experience so far, I'll have to clean it as well.  What's the deal with o-ring chain cleaning?  What should I use that's effective and won't kill the o-rings?  What's the best way to properly lube the chain without making a mess?  The manufacturers directions, at least those of the makers of PJ1, can't seem to be trusted...


Wheel alignment: I haven't properly checked my wheel alignment yet; when I've adjusted my chain, I've always moved my snails the same number of "clicks" each side.  When I replace the chain, I'll check the alignment.

Meanwhile, the bike seems to steer true, but when I ride down "my hill" and ease off the handlebars ("no hands"), the bike wants to ease slightly to the right - I can actually lean a bit to the left and have it track straight.  Does this suggest that the rear wheel is pointing a bit to the left?  Based on this limited information, would anyone suggest a quick adjustment one way or the other?

[Ducati Scotty]

On o ring chains I use Maxima chain wax.  Spray it on generously and the use a rag to clean it and any accumulated gunk off.  Once clean, spray again lightly and wipe off most of the excess with a paper towel.  Then let it dry.  LT Snyder had this documented on his DesmoTimes site but the site is down right now because he was called to active duty.  I find this keeps my o/x ring chains clean and working well for many miles.

Scott

[barenekd]

The slack is supposed to be set with someone on the bike, However I've found that 1-1/2" on the center stand works out quite well. Be sure to check it at the tightest part of the chain. As you rotate it, you will find that the chain will tighten and slacken. You will also find that the chain adjustments will come a lot more frequently. The sleeves and pins will start breaking up and let the chain become slack, "Stretching". As the chains age, the deterioration becomes more rapid. Keep an eye on the sprockets, don't let them get to where they are showing wear. If you change the chain soon enough, you can save on the sprocket change. You are probably good for a few thousand (3 or 4) more miles, but keep the chain well oiled.
Bare

[Ducati Scotty]

+1.  Set the chain slack with the bike on the centerstand and the rear wheel unloaded.  Setting it with someone on the bike as the manual instructs is just foolish, there are so many variables you can't expect to get it right.  I got with 2" of slack but I think i weigh more than Bare.

Scott

[Arizoni]

Mattsz:
The PJ-1 Black Label chain lube does the same thing and my experience with it has been the same as yours.

I figure the black crud is the lube + dirt and figure that's just the way life is with an old non-O-ring chain.
The only time I start to get concerned is when the chain isn't throwing off a little crud.

[Craig McClure]

I'd like to see a photo of how someone sits on the bike, adjusting the chain, while keeping the wheel aligned-ought to be pretty entertaining.
  I opted for the 2" chain slack on lower run, while bike is on the centerstand-much easier for us folks with normal length arms.

[Ducati Scotty]

Yoga originated in India for just this very reason

[Bulletman]

 
Actually I would have posted some pictures to show you how its done Craig...Problem is I dont think Kevin would allow the pictures....Scottie thinks its "YOGA"...Its not..Its the
"Kamasutra" angles that will help..

[Craig McClure]

I don't know Bulletman. That sounds like foreplay, & doesn't bode well for the rest of the job.