Author Topic: Iwis chain update  (Read 13515 times)

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2bikebill

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on: August 11, 2010, 09:38:57 pm
New chain arrived today. I could see straight away it was a beautiful piece of high quality German engineering. And what a difference from the piece of junk it's replaced!  Good grief  -  everything was flopping about loose in every direction on the old one! It was only a matter of time I think before something disastrous occurred. Quick and easy to fit, and did about thirty miles with it this evening, on a much happier bike. Way less grabby than I've become acclimatised to. It's loosened up a bit already - I'm assuming (hoping) this is normal for a new chain....  Is it....?
I also took the gizmos off and put the snails back on - way easier to adjust I find, and I also know that my wheels are aligned when the left snail is two notches further on than the left.   I dunno - there's so much more arsing around to do with those new gizmos. Is it just me?  Anyone in UK want a pair of gizmo adjusters a bit cheaper than new? Send a pm if so.
2009 Royal Enfield Electra (G5)


Ducati Scotty

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Reply #1 on: August 11, 2010, 09:59:22 pm
It's loosened up a bit already - I'm assuming (hoping) this is normal for a new chain....  Is it....?

Glad you got a new chain.  This is normal.  Expect to do a few adjustments in the first 500-1000 miles.  They should be fewer and farther between after that.  When they start getting frequent again prepare to go shopping again :)

I dunno - there's so much more arsing around to do with those new gizmos. Is it just me?

I was looking at them on the web page.  It seems much of your adjustment is taken up by the caps on the rear of the swingarm and how much they overlap the axle slot.  I think if you could cut them down you might have more room to pull the axle back with them.  Just a thought.

Scott


2bikebill

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Reply #2 on: August 11, 2010, 10:10:10 pm
There's about twice as much possible adjustment with the snails as with the gizmos - as you say, the things themselves use up a lot of the available space. This doesn't  matter with a new chain of course. But it's not that - they're just bloody awkward to get to with a spanner, or rather the RH one is, particularly with the upswept Goldie exhaust right in front of it, and the brake lever too. Plus I'm a bit obsessional about having the wheels lined up right. I did it with lasers so I know to always tighten up the LH snail 2 extra notches. This is trickier with the gizmos. Otherwise they do allow for precision when tensioning the chain I suppose, but that degree of precision probably isn't necessary. I just find the snails so simple to use. Perhaps I'll wait & see how things progess with the ongoing chain adjustment.
Thanks for the reassurance about early "stretching" of new chain.
2009 Royal Enfield Electra (G5)


luoma

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Reply #3 on: August 12, 2010, 12:10:01 am
When I got my RE, I expected the stock chain to need some early adjustment as all chains have some initial strethch. But it just kept stretching. At 13K I finally replaced it with a heavy duty Japaneese chain and am very happy with it. I could have used the Indian-made chain to bungee jump.


davem

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Reply #4 on: August 12, 2010, 12:15:08 am
Will you need a box spanner for your gizmos


Chris-G5

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Reply #5 on: August 12, 2010, 12:52:43 am
Will, is it an o-ring chain? what length? I'm needing to replace my chain on my G5.


2bikebill

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Reply #6 on: August 12, 2010, 08:12:46 am
No box spanner required for the gizmos - see Hitchocks website if UK, or Nfield gear if USA.
It's not O-ring chain. It's 530 standard chain, 101 links.
2009 Royal Enfield Electra (G5)


singhg5

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Reply #7 on: August 12, 2010, 07:22:10 pm
With the snales back on and a new chain - I guess you are ready to outpace a turtle  ;) I meant a hare !
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singhg5

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Reply #8 on: August 12, 2010, 10:52:12 pm
It's not O-ring chain. It's 530 standard chain, 101 links.

Can any knowledgeable person explain a little bit about chains and answer three  questions below ?  D.I.D. sells 530 size chains of different strengths and Wear-Life.  

Type                        Tensile Strength (lbs.)     Wear Life Index*

Standard
530                                     7,200                           100


Super Non-O-Ring
530 HZ                              8,600                             410


Professional O-Ring
530V                                9,600                            2,540

Gold Premium X-Ring
530VM                             9760                              3,630


Wear Life Indicator is relative number that indicates how long they will last under similar conditions of use.

1.   Which of these DID chains is comparable to a stock chain in G5 in USA ?
 
2.   Can anyone compare these four brands -  Iwis  vs. DID  vs EK vs Tsubaki chain quality and performance ?  Each brand may have further Types (as listed above for DID) and if you know about them too ?

3.  Which one would you recommend for G5 - The one that WillW used is an obvious good one but is there another one that you know is pretty good one ?

THANKS.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 11:27:16 pm by singhg5 »
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t120rbullet

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Reply #9 on: August 12, 2010, 11:32:56 pm
The G5 stock chain would be the "standard" chain.
I've been using Tsubaki QR chain on Enfields for years with no problems. About 40 bucks and they last about 10K with proper maintenance.
Just about any chain would handle the whopping 25 HP these things put out. Anything more is a waste. 
CJ
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Ducati Scotty

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Reply #10 on: August 12, 2010, 11:47:16 pm
First off, just about any well known name brand is probably better than the stock one.  Even the low end model.

1. The non-o ring models are probably both the same size as the stocker.  Both are probably way better in quality.  The x/o-ring models are wider to fit the rings in there.  DID is a very good chain.  Good materials and tight tolerances.

2. DID is better from EK from what I've heard but I'm sure both are way better than the stocker.  Don't know about IWIS.

3. This is where I spend all the money I can.  Money largely does buy quality here and changing the chain and sprockets is a pain, better to do it less often.  I change them all together.  Again, maybe overkill but gives me the longest life from all parts.  X-rings seal better, last longer, and have less friction than o-rings.  X/o-ring chains last longer mostly because try as we may, most of us suck at cleaning and lubing the chain.  Also, they don't get water in the bearing surfaces when it rains.  On the flip side,when one link goes bad the chain is done, no way to get new lube in there.  I would go for the high end x-ring chain.  It's overkill but will last longest in reality.  I put it on my last bike and will use it on the C5 when I'm done with the original.

BUT it may not fit your bike.  It seems the G5 may not have enough clearance to fit the
wider girth of an o-ring chain.  If you can pick one up locally try to link it to your old chain with the master and pull it through.  If it doesn't fit get a good quality non x/o-ring chain and clean and lube it well.

Big singles and twins are hard on chains.  I guess it's the fewer big hits of the piston compared to the more frequest but smaller on multi cyclinder bikes.  Pay for a good chain.

Scott


singhg5

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Reply #11 on: August 13, 2010, 12:03:33 am
CJ and Scott:

Appreciate your input and replies.  Interesting that Iwis is German and all the rest i.e., DID, Tsubaki and EK are Japanese.

DID 530 Super Non O-ring for 110 links is $68.
DID 530 Standard for 110 links is $34
Tsubaki 530 QR Series for 110 links is $35
EK 530 Standard for 110 links is $32.
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Ducati Scotty

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Reply #12 on: August 13, 2010, 12:46:54 am
Keep in mind you'll need a tool to break the chain down to the length you need.  You may also need a tool to rivet the master link if it's not a clip type.  I'm sure all those you listed will be as good or better than the original.  Also, Iwis sounds good from what was mentioned here on the board.

As to the Japanese and Germans, two obsessive cultures.  No coincidence that both are know for outstanding craftsmanship :)

Scott


Maturin

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Reply #13 on: August 13, 2010, 02:02:01 am
I´m not sure if the x- or o-ring chains are best suited, they do cost power and the bullet produces horses not exactly in greater flocks.
Another problem could occur when indian sprockets and chain wheels meet precise, obsessive, unforgiving  japanese/german chains - especially the sprocket may have a short, hard live, and with this part worn out the rest will follow quickly. The alternative may be using the dirt cheap indian parts and change more often, probalbly that is the cheapest solution.
IWIS is a Munich company and supplies - among other things - camshaft drive chains for Mercedes & BMW. So I guess they have to manufacture superior quality because they are probably more expensive than the competitors. What can I say: support your local dealer  ;D
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qgolden

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Reply #14 on: August 13, 2010, 03:21:04 am
Actually that is an excellent point.  I would think one would not want the chain harder than the sprockets....
Any other Enfields in New England?


Maturin

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Reply #15 on: August 13, 2010, 12:16:56 pm
In the days of the great empire of the Soviet Union there was a law that on many products the date of production had to be listed. Customers went by that by preferring products made on tuesday to thursday: monday was out because workers had shaky hands especially in the morning, friday was out because at the week´s end some racks for part storage were empty and the workers had to use substandard parts thrown away before to complete whatever they had to assemble. That was the commie way of consumer protection  ;D
As in these good old days the Indian way of producing things today sometimes unfortunately achieves similar results. I really admire the courage of the management to export this kind of machinery to old Europe and the rest of the world  ;) , and we can notice that there are no two Bullets that are identical - every bike is a little different  8)
So there is plenty of room for action and improvement to overcome little (or medium sized.... :-X) difficulties. On the other hand it´s possible to be just lucky, and we know that this is much more likely with the new EFI-Bullets than it was with the old iron horses.
So lets be audacious: I tensioned my original supersteelchain for the first time at 2300 km, so I  developed great trust in it. If it once goes belly up, I´ll guess I´ll be confident with the indian quality one more time.
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Ducati Scotty

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Reply #16 on: August 13, 2010, 05:07:28 pm
Just a comment, even if both your sprockets are wonky, putting a substandard chain on them will only have all three parts wearing faster.  Get a decent chain.

Scott


singhg5

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Reply #17 on: August 13, 2010, 09:02:22 pm
In the days of the great empire of the Soviet Union there was a law that on many products the date of production had to be listed. Customers went by that by preferring products made on tuesday to thursday: monday was out because workers had shaky hands especially in the morning, friday was out because at the week´s end some racks for part storage were empty and the workers had to use substandard parts thrown away before to complete whatever they had to assemble. That was the commie way of consumer protection  ;D

As in these good old days the Indian way of producing things today sometimes unfortunately achieves similar results. I really admire the courage of the management to export this kind of machinery to old Europe and the rest of the world  ;) , and we can notice that there are no two Bullets that are identical - every bike is a little different  8)

On the other hand it´s possible to be just lucky, and we know that this is much more likely with the new EFI-Bullets than it was with the old iron horse.

Maturin:

Wie geht Sie ?   

Really enjoyed your posts.  Yes, no two Bullets are alike -  My G5 has over 9000 miles (14,400 kilometers) and the chain is in good shape  ;D.

Mind you, I clean the chain, lube it well and keep proper tension and do not over tax the bike.  It seems that REs like a little care and attention and they respond well. 
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2bikebill

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Reply #18 on: August 13, 2010, 09:21:18 pm
Singh - I bought the chain with 101 links, ready to fit. It was a simple job - I attached it to the old chain without the circlip and just pulled it through. Job done and ready to ride in about forty minutes.
The Chain Man knew exactly what I needed and after our phone conversation I had the chain next day and sent the cheque by return. If you can find someone like him over there you'll have struck gold.
I am resolved to improve my chain care. That said, I'm sure I had a dodgy chain to start with.
2009 Royal Enfield Electra (G5)


singhg5

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Reply #19 on: August 13, 2010, 10:12:57 pm
Singh - I bought the chain with 101 links, ready to fit. It was a simple job - I attached it to the old chain without the circlip and just pulled it through. Job done and ready to ride in about forty minutes.
The Chain Man knew exactly what I needed and after our phone conversation I had the chain next day and sent the cheque by return. If you can find someone like him over there you'll have struck gold.
I am resolved to improve my chain care. That said, I'm sure I had a dodgy chain to start with.

I looked around but we do not get 101 pin chain here - but get slightly longer chain and then we have to remove a few links.  I will get a D.I.D. (Japanese) chain after a few more miles.  Circlip type is definitely easier. 

It is good to know a motorcycle mechanic who knows what is good and what exactly you need for your bike - as you did.  Your new chain will last 10K miles or more !
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Ducati Scotty

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Reply #20 on: August 13, 2010, 10:33:03 pm
A chain breaker that will push a pin out and shorten a chain is fairly inexpensive, amybe $20 US.  A chain press that will rivet a rivet type master link is much more expensive, $50-100 US.  The rivet type master links are more secure.  You can secure a clip type easily by cleaning the master side plate and clip and putting a dab of RTV silicon on there to make sure it stays.  Many posts on the internet about that.

Will has the right idea: break it, attach the new one to the old, and pull it through.

Scott


clubman

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Reply #21 on: August 13, 2010, 10:37:29 pm
Thank you for sourcing the Iwis chain, Will - a brand I had never heard of before following this thread but clearly top quality. I am resolved to follow your lead and change my chain in a couple of weeks when I am on leave. Whilst I still have plenty more adjustment left than you had I have a similar situation with uneven wear which is becoming unsustainable. The tight spot is an inch tighter than the rest of the chain. I have always kept the chain lubed and correctly adjusted, proof being zero transmission snatch and excellent fuel consumption, so 5,000 miles is not impressive.

On the other hand it is no great surprise now that I have learnt via this thread that the manufacturer is Rolon. My first experience of this brand was 25 years ago when I bought one for my Morini. It lasted 500 miles. I suppose Rolon are to be congratulated on a tenfold improvement in quality in a couple of decades.  :D


Ducati Scotty

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Reply #22 on: August 13, 2010, 11:35:12 pm
Not sure if this has been noted yet, is the o-ring chain from the C5 also from Rolon?

Scott


r80rt

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Reply #23 on: August 14, 2010, 12:01:51 am
My C5 came stock with a Diamond chain, same as I used to run on HD's and British stuff. I always liked them, they are good quality and not cheap. I'll stick with them.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2010, 02:16:14 pm by r80rt »
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motomataya

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Reply #24 on: August 14, 2010, 02:25:03 am
If you buy a chain that is to long I suggest not using a chain breaker. Grind the pins off until lower then with the side plate then knock off the side plate and push the link through. It dose less damage to the chain when it is new and tight.


Ducati Scotty

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Reply #25 on: August 14, 2010, 04:08:07 am
If you buy a chain that is to long I suggest not using a chain breaker. Grind the pins off until lower then with the side plate then knock off the side plate and push the link through. It dose less damage to the chain when it is new and tight.

I always grind the pin and then use the breaker, maybe I should have mentioned that.  You're right, breaking a staked pin puts a lot of stress on the tool and the chain. 

Scott


Ducati Scotty

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Reply #26 on: August 14, 2010, 06:09:13 pm
Yikes!  I was just looking at the price of x-ring 530 chains.  Those things are expensive!  I guess when I had my Ducati there really aren't many other choices people consider so it seems normal.  I still say it's worth buying a good quality name brand chain but I don't think I can fault anyone for buying a regular non x/o-ring chain at these prices.

Scott


ace.cafe

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Reply #27 on: August 14, 2010, 07:16:44 pm
Alot of Iron Barrel Bullet owners like the RK heavy duty standard 530 chains without O-rings or X rings. They do well, and are not terribly expensive.
RK is a very good quality Japanese chain company.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2010, 07:19:32 pm by ace.cafe »
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qgolden

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Reply #28 on: August 15, 2010, 04:30:18 am
Good thread and sharing, the only thing missing is to comment to be sure that when you put the lock on the Master Link that it be facing in the right direction.

If the Master Link is at the top side of the chain run where it is heading into the motor then the opening is towards the rear tire.  In other words the closed end is always pointed towards the forward rotation.  Never put the opening side forward.

-Q
Any other Enfields in New England?


singhg5

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Reply #29 on: August 20, 2010, 01:43:24 am
Singh - I bought the chain with 101 links, ready to fit. It was a simple job - I attached it to the old chain without the circlip and just pulled it through. Job done and ready to ride in about forty minutes.

The Chain Man knew exactly what I needed..

Will:

Here in US, we can get chains of EVEN number links ONLY, such as 110, 120, 102 etc.  The reason is that the links are made in pairs - Top plate_Bottom plate, then Top plate_Bottom plate and it keeps repeating like that including the Master Link, which has top plate.  

To make a chain of ODD number of links, needs a HALF-link whose plate is not flat.  One end of plate is bent to act as Bottom and other end acts as Top.  It will be clear in the picture below.  In my G5, this HALF-Link is then attached to Master link that has a circlip on it.  The motorcycle dealers say that they have not seen HALF-Link in chains for over 20 years in US  !!  Cannot get it.

WILL - Here is my question since you got a new chain from Iwis -  Does your chain have HALF-link somewhere in chain ?  Or do you have EVEN number of links ? (I know you have written 101, but can you count it again ?)  By the way when the chain is put together in a circle, the number of pins is the same as the number of links.

Here is a picture of my chain with HALF-link attached to Master Link.  BTW- just noticed that the circlip is backward - it has been running like this all this time  ;D



« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 02:32:18 am by singhg5 »
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