Author Topic: 19" wheel conversion for C5  (Read 40069 times)

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ScooterBob

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Reply #105 on: July 28, 2010, 11:53:25 am
Bob, what's the etiquette on wheel building?  I've done bikes and we have rules of thumb like never reuse spokes, you only get two builds on any one hub and then you should retire it, use new nipples every time,  lube the nipples with 'spoke prep'.

Most of this is kinda geared toward the fact that you are dealing with small parts that don't take the stress of being used more than once well.  How much of this translates to motorcycles?  What can and can't you reuse?

Scott

Under IDEAL circumstances, I like to use new spokes and nipples - and I'll sure scrutinise a hub for wear and tear ...... but I've recycled all of the above without incident on many occasions. Usually, when I get into a wheel project, it's because it's trashed and I just nip the spokes with bolt cutters, thus solving the "reuse" problem. On the race bikes (where the wheels get regular service) I measure the length in a little gage that I made. Any spoke that is stretched is OUT. Usually about two builds is all you get on those before they stretch. As for the hub - let availability be your guide - that and whether or not the holes for the spokes are pulled through and paper thin ... Hahaha! Buchanan has some great nipple and spoke lube - although a moly EP grease works well to get the right tension on the spokes. If they start "creaking" when you are tightening them, they are too dry and you'll not get them properly set. Harley heads always build their wheels dry so they don't get fingerprints on them - I say do it RIGHT - and wipe 'em off!
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Ducati Scotty

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Reply #106 on: July 28, 2010, 03:18:57 pm
Harley heads always build their wheels dry so they don't get fingerprints on them - I say do it RIGHT - and wipe 'em off!

You mean you value integrity and safety over aesthetics?  What are you thinking?!?!?

Also, do you take a ride or two on a new wheel and then re-check the spoke tension and true or are they good to go right out of the stand?

Scott


gashousegorilla

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Reply #107 on: July 28, 2010, 05:03:06 pm
Scotty, I used Buchanan nipple and spoke lube left over from a prior build. Good stuff, makes everthing go together much easier.Also prevents the spokes from seizing.I'll recheck tension on the spokes after a ride, but the idea is to get as best you can before you mount the tire.Correct spoke tension, correct runout and faceout. In my case it was .5 mils. for both. It's impractical to retrue after you take it for a ride, because to do it correctly, the tire should be off. After your first pothole encounter, chances are, your gonna throw that wheel out a bit, especially on a short rake bike.Also I would be carfull how much you  torque the spokes after the wheel is back on the bike, very easy to put the rim out of kilter.
Dan.
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.


gashousegorilla

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Reply #108 on: July 28, 2010, 11:58:46 pm
It's done. Looks awsome, time for a test ride, we'll see how she  handles.Also made some wider Handlebars. Added 2 1/2" to both ends, for about a 33" bar. Must have coffe and a couple smokes first. ;) Pics later.
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.


Ducati Scotty

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Reply #109 on: July 29, 2010, 03:02:52 am
Congrats on finishing and good luck with the test ride!


qgolden

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Reply #110 on: July 29, 2010, 03:21:14 am
And tell us about the bars, start a new thread if appropriate.

I'd like to see pics and some details, bend radius and rise etc...
Any other Enfields in New England?


gashousegorilla

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Reply #111 on: July 29, 2010, 05:03:48 am
OK, here's the pics, start to finish with summery of test to follow.
Notice direction and orientation of spokes marked in hub. BH for big hook,SM for small hook or inner and outer spokes.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2010, 05:07:33 am by gashousegorilla »
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.


gashousegorilla

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Reply #112 on: July 29, 2010, 05:12:31 am
Some more. Snipped spokes on 18" wheel, up on stand,trued and finished wheel. An exact 1" difference.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2010, 05:15:50 am by gashousegorilla »
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.


gashousegorilla

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Reply #113 on: July 29, 2010, 05:19:53 am
Finished product and on the bike.
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.


gashousegorilla

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Reply #114 on: July 29, 2010, 05:25:00 am
Some more finish shots.
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.


Ducati Scotty

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Reply #115 on: July 29, 2010, 06:25:36 am
Looks snug but not terrible and not out of place.  How does she ride?  You know, you post all them glorious pics and we still want more ;)  Thanks for all the pics so quickly.

Side note: insurance and sale of Ducati wreck all sorted, money in the bank.  Shopping time!

Scott


gashousegorilla

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Reply #116 on: July 29, 2010, 07:08:45 am
Results time,
Positives first:
Ease of installation.As scooterbob said, it's really just a matter of swapping the wheel out with no modification to the fender, at least with the tire I used.The only thing I did was to grind down the pedestrian slicer bolts inside the fender. They did not rub, but I did it for Peace of mind.
Appearance. It definitely looks better. It does fill the fender nicely. The over all look and stance of the bike is better.
 Low speed handling. It no longer has that "moped feel" as the professor so astutely pointed out ;). It still handles/corners excellently at speeds from 0-50 mph.But not quite as good with the 18" wheel. It does have better straight line stability at these speeds. 35 mph, no hands, straight and true.I could never do that with the 18" wheel.It would tend to veer,left or right.
Negatives:
Center stand. Not a biggy at all,but it is more difficult to get the bike on and off the center stand.
High speed stability. This is the most important for me as you probably know, if you have followed this thread and my thread on the swing arm. I took the bike out on the highway, and was stunned to find that I had lost about 5-10mph in high speed stability, that I gained in the swing arm mod.At speeds starting at 60-65 mph,same old story,she starts to get light and squirrely.As speed increases ,it only get worse. At  75 mph,uncontrollable. Again, the slightest turbulence sets it off. Wind, truck, hitting a bump, or even knocking your knee into the side of your tank. It seems to me, what is happening at these speeds is that the front end and the rest of the bike get out of sync ,if you will ,caused by the turbulence,and does not correct fast enough. My 5-10 mph loss is probably from increasing the rake,and not adjusting for trail.A 1" wheel size change should not be a big deal.This is not like building a chopper when you just install much longer legs, and don't cut,adjust,and re weld the neck for correct rake and trail combination.
 So it's back to the drawing board for me Boys.I'm still glad I did this wheel mod,it improves the look and feel of the bike. I just now know the front wheel is not the cause of my bikes high speed instability.Maybe it's time to try a stabilizer? Any thoughts?
 Dan.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2010, 07:11:57 am by gashousegorilla »
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.


qgolden

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Reply #117 on: July 29, 2010, 01:02:15 pm
Well it certainly looks good.  Fits the fender like it was made to be there. 
Any other Enfields in New England?


ScooterBob

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Reply #118 on: July 29, 2010, 02:24:21 pm
Hmmmmm - That's certainly interesting ...... I wish I still had my 19'-wheel test mule here to check that out ...... Is the oscillation set off by wind buffeting from the side? What stops it? Strong-arming the bars? Slowing down? Our "pro rider" here (really - he raced professionally for a few years ...) hasn't mentioned one hiccup with an 18" wheel bike - only acknowledging that you COULD induce an oscillation at high speeds - but that it was a "non" - neither increasing nor decreasing in frequency until you "strong-armed" it a bit and made it stop ...... I've never encountered it yet ........ Interesting, indeed ......
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Ducati Scotty

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Reply #119 on: July 29, 2010, 03:16:35 pm
Though I have already considered a stabilizer myself (and I don't even own an RE yet) it's never good to use them to 'cover up' a problem. 

Another thought, maybe look into a higher profile rear tire.  I was looking up the M26 the other day and they are available in a few sizes.  Maybe if you get the back end just a little higher you can  get that nice balance back.

Another thought, get the front tire dynamically balanced at a shop with a machine.  Couldn't hurt and shouldn't cost too much.

Oh, and check to make sure the steering head bearings are set properly.  Just covering all the bases.

All that failing, maybe a stabilizer is the way to go.  They tend to cancel out those little nudges to the bars that set off the wobble cycle.

Bravo for your persistence and I still intend on 'Gorilla-ing' my swingarm.

Scott