[mtrueblood]

Last Fall, I stopped by a small motorcycle dealer in West Newton, PA.  The owner was interested enough to come out to look at my motorcycle.  He didn't have much good to say.  "I guess your only reason to buy that thing was the price."  I didn't argue with him.  After all, the price was certainly a factor.  The main reason was that I like the way it looks.  Anyway, he started pointing at all the oxidation, and told me I'd never have that problem with a Triumph or a Japanese motorcycle.
I don't know if that's true, but I am definitely noticing a lot of rust.  The most troubling is the rust on the various nuts.  And, the worst of them are a couple of the nuts that (I guess....not being a motorcycle mechanic yet) hold the head onto the block.  The two that are the closest to the spark plug are my primary concern right now. 
Is there anything I can do?  I'm sure it gets pretty hot there, so I don't think anything like wax or oil will stay there long.    Is there some kind of heat-resistant paint I can use on them?  I'm concerned that  they'll become so rusted that I won't be able to remove them, and that I'll end up having to have the engine removed and worked on.
I put a 5/16 nut on the top of the stud to check the size.  It wouldn't screw on.  So, I'm guessing the existing nuts are metric.   Is that true?  Do you know what size?
This is a 2009 Bullet 500 ES.  AVL
All the other rusty nuts I can probably take care of with a wire brush and some lubricant.  Thank you.

[ace.cafe]

You can just wire-brush them off, and spray some hi-temp engine spray paint on them.

Yes, the studs are metric. I'm not sure of the size. Probably M7 or M8, 1.0 or 1.25

[PaulF]

Yup, and a little WD or peneatrating oil to get 'em loose.

Everyone knows my soft spot for the reliability of Japanese motorcycles, but he's dead wrong. You can get rusty fasteners on any machine. Especially given the wet, salty and humid environs of the northeast US. Lord knows, I've had to deal with my share of scraped knuckles and profanity that would make Charles Manson blush on my old Jap machinery.

I dunno about old British bikes. Maybe the reason they never had corroded fasteners is because the entire lower end of the bike was always covered with a fine layer of leaked oil. 

[Chasfield]

Yeah, I think that constant oil mist was a big help with Brit bikes regarding corrosion. I do think that the frame paint depth and hardness on my Bullet are not the best but neither are they the worst. My Honda was certainly no better and a British winter made a mockery of its chrome plating and alloy lacquering.

[UncleErnie]

If some asshat came out and said, "So does your wife chase cars?  Is she house-trained yet?" would you still be listening to anything he said?  I believe I'd have snapped his bra strap before leaving.

You cxan't buy the best pentrating solution because it's too cheap;  1/2 acetone and 1/2 ATF.   Works like you wouldn't believe.

As things progress, I've very gradually been converting to stainless steel fasteners.  I haven't really noticed too many offending bits, though.
Fasteners are 99.9% metric.  When I can't figure out a size, I take the piece to a shop that can tell me.  Asheville Bolt and Screw is close.

[mtrueblood]

Thanks for the replies.  I just got off the phone with Craig at Enfield Motorcycles, and he said much the same thing.  I took a nut to Home Depot.  M8-1.25 is the right size.  PIcked up some enamel paint at Pep Boys.  I'm all set.

I called on another issue.  Maybe I should make this into a new topic, but after 1700 miles, I'm now ordering my fourth speedometer drive (about $80 delivered).  The little gray unit that sits on the right side of the front wheel.  It stopped working today while I was a couple miles from home.  Craig has told me these things are bomb-proof, so there must be some other problem having to do with spacers or torque.  Anyone else have a problem with this?   Thanks.

[Ice]

Three cheers for 50/50 Acetone/A.T.F. !!!

Brass and Stainless bristled tooth brush type brushes and wire wool are great for removing corrosion.

 Riding year round up here in the Pacific Northwest makes corrosion a big concern and a never ending battle for me.
 I have not seen any rust difference as far as brand of bike goes.

 I use WD-40 and automotive wax ( cheap as chips ) in the easy to get to places and  corrosion preventive compounds  ( more costly but longer lasting ) for hard to get to places.

 Any Aviation or Maritime supply house should have a selection of C.P.C's on hand.


 Good on you Sir for being polite to the dealer. Sour grapes types and brand snobs can piss off   I'm afraid I wouldn't have been.

No troubles with my speedometer drive box. Does your cable core spin freely in the cable housing ?

[PaulF]

You cxan't buy the best pentrating solution because it's too cheap;  1/2 acetone and 1/2 ATF.   Works like you wouldn't believe.

Ernie, never thought of that. One question. Will it eat the paint surrounding a fastener or damage any chrome?

[Marrtyn]

I think one of the best products on the market for anti rust protection etc is ACF 50.
This can be sprayed allover, even electrics, except brakes (pads discs shoes etc).
Also very good for anti salt corrosion.
Just "google" it.

[mtrueblood]

Thanks again for your replies wrt the rust.

I'm going to move my speedometer drive problem to a new line.

When I was talking to Craig in Minnesota (?) this morning, I got adequate info for me to deal with the rusty nuts and bolts.  At his suggestion, I went back to HD and bought a few metric acorn nuts to replace the rusty ones near the spark plug.  I've also got the spray paint from Pep Boys.

I told Craig I was a little hesitant to take nuts off that I assume help hold the engine together, and I asked if I needed to break out the torque wrench when I put the new ones on.  He advised me to think like an Indian, and realize that these motorcycles are meant to run where there aren't real roads, bounce in and out of pot holes, and be fixed on the side of the road with a flashlight and a few tools.  "Just make the bolts tight, and call it 'done' " is what I think I heard.  I guess i was being too technical? Too concerned with NSTM compliance?  I don't know.  I don't want to foul anything up that I'll have to pay someone else to fix.
Thanks, again.

[REpozer]

True Blood,
I wipe my RE down often with WD-40 and clean rags. Similar as one would with a fine gun or knife.
The aluminium has no protective coating.
 To keep cost down , I purchased a gallon can of WD-40 and spay bottle.

Seems to be working, but also store mine indoors.

[UncleErnie]

Ernie, never thought of that. One question. Will it eat the paint surrounding a fastener or damage any chrome?

I've always been very careful, using a quite small modeling brush for application.  Now that you ask, though, I think I'm going to find out tomorrow AM.  It will be good to know how sloppy I'm (you're) allowed to be.

As far as the cable goes- are you sure it's breaking at the wheel?  My unit stopped working and I finally figured out it wasn't screwed into the spedometer itself properly.  It take little hands to screw that in.

Torquing head bolts;  You're not riding alone through the Hymilayas.  I found a loose nut where you did and I asked the same question you are- even though I knew the answer, just like you do.  Don't be lazy.  Find TDC and re-torque all your head bolts.  That means taking off the rocker covers.  To do that you need to take the tank off.  In the long run, your bike will return the love and time spent.  I promise.

[UncleErnie]

If you've never taken the rocker covers off before, it can be quit a challenge.  I had to whack mine with a 2x4 and then replace the gaskets after they got tore up.  I just coat the new ones with grease and they've lasted a long time.  There's no pressure in there or anything trying to get out.  The covers are there mostly to keep a little oil from splashing out and to keep dirt out.

[ScooterBob]

Thanks again for your replies wrt the rust.

I'm going to move my speedometer drive problem to a new line.

When I was talking to Craig in Minnesota (?) this morning, I got adequate info for me to deal with the rusty nuts and bolts.  At his suggestion, I went back to HD and bought a few metric acorn nuts to replace the rusty ones near the spark plug.  I've also got the spray paint from Pep Boys.

I told Craig I was a little hesitant to take nuts off that I assume help hold the engine together, and I asked if I needed to break out the torque wrench when I put the new ones on.  He advised me to think like an Indian, and realize that these motorcycles are meant to run where there aren't real roads, bounce in and out of pot holes, and be fixed on the side of the road with a flashlight and a few tools.  "Just make the bolts tight, and call it 'done' " is what I think I heard.  I guess i was being too technical? Too concerned with NSTM compliance?  I don't know.  I don't want to foul anything up that I'll have to pay someone else to fix.
Thanks, again.

Just remember that in India, the engineers don't fix the bikes - it's the little guy beside the road with the set of wrenches carefully wrapped in an oily rag!   These guys can't be beat - They can "repair" your bike - or if you don't have the coin - they can "fix" it for you and all will be well - You just GOTTA love 'em! Put a drop of red Loctite on those head bolts and tighten 'em up 'til they are snug and RIDE!

[UncleErnie]

TEST RESULTS;   Very unscientic mixture of ATF and acetone in a dirty yogurt cup.  Applied with stick found on driveway to the deck of my 20 yo 3.5hp lawn mower, the underside of an antigue BMW /2 sidestand, and a can of paint. 
After one hour, I observe no differences in the surfaces.

That said- When in doubt (fear), DO A SPOT CHECK.

[scoTTy]

red locktite

Man, that's a heat thing to break that loose.. Blue is bad enough, but at least you can break it loose.. I only use red when I for sure don't plan to undo it..

But that's me.

[ScooterBob]

red locktite

Man, that's a heat thing to break that loose.. Blue is bad enough, but at least you can break it loose.. I only use red when I for sure don't plan to undo it..

But that's me.

You are using too much!! Hahaha!! It's like Brylcreem - just a dab'll do ya! Seriously, tho - You CAN use too much of the stuff .... I "slather" with blue - it'll come loose - I "dab" with red - especially on the little stuff - but I usually USE the red because it can't be beat for holding stuff in place (It actually CAN be beat with GREEN stud and bearing mount - but we won't EVEN go there for an Enfield ... Hahaha!!) the red stuff WILL hold more than the torsional strength of some hardware store bolts. There is a really good article in SAE.org on this .... I paid for it - it's probably free by now .....

[Ice]

red locktite

Man, that's a heat thing to break that loose.. Blue is bad enough, but at least you can break it loose.. I only use red when I for sure don't plan to undo it..

But that's me.

 And me. 

 I take it that you also thoroughly de grease the nuts and bolts threads to remove all traces of oil before the application of thread locking compounds ?

[ScooterBob]

And me. 

 I take it that you also thoroughly de grease the nuts and bolts threads to remove all traces of oil before the application of thread locking compounds ?

That's they recommended way. It's like anything else that has "room for error" - IF you leave the fasteners oily and IF you don't use enough, you MAY not get the holding that you want. This is why I use the red stuff most of the time - there isn't enough "sanitation" in a field repair, usually, to get ALL the "hold" out of the stuff. That and the fact that I ain't gonna FUSS with it that much ..... Hahaha! 

[Blue Ridge Wheeltor]

"As things progress, I've very gradually been converting to stainless steel fasteners. "

Stainless steel in aluminum, have to be careful.

[UncleErnie]

The expert on rusty nuts -

This has only been a couple of items so far, but if you mean "don't over-torque", then no.  I'm very careful about that. 

[Blue Ridge Wheeltor]

The expert on rusty nuts -

This has only been a couple of items so far, but if you mean "don't over-torque", then no.  I'm very careful about that. 

No Mister Know it All, I am referring to galvanic corrosion when using stainless steel in aluminum.

[ScooterBob]

No Mister Know it All, I am referring to galvanic corrosion when using stainless steel in aluminum.

This is a very good point - I think, however that NON-FERROUS Stainless alloys - even when placed with dis-similar metals - offer galvanic corrosion protection. I know that if you put iron pipe and copper together in a boiler / chiller system, it'll rot out 1/2" thick stuff in a year if you don't use dielectric flanges .... It's crazy, I tell ya .... crazy! Any chiller guys out there know the poop on non-ferrous stainless alloy corrosion?? NOW I'm interested ...... 

[mtrueblood]

ScooterBob,
Heat exchangers on a Navy ship 30 years ago.  I remember making sure my enginmen checked the sacrificial anodes (zinc) periodically.  Not really relevant to the original question, but someone mentioned galvanic reaction.

[UncleErnie]

So what is it?  Using stainless fasteners is going to melt holes in my aluminium cases?

[mtrueblood]

Stainless steel fasteners are not going to melt holes in your aluminum cases.  At least, not for quite a while.  The two metals in contact with each other in the presence of moisture (especially salty moisture) will produce a galvanic reaction.  And, the aluminum will the be the anode.  It will be the metal that corrodes.  There's plenty of info on the internet about the process.  Where possible, polymer washers are recommended. 

[Blue Ridge Wheeltor]

If I read this correctly, they claim stainless is ferrous.
Notice the reference to galvanic corrosion.

http://www.inoxgrp.co.uk/pdf%20files/Tech%20sheets/PhysChem.pdf

[Ice]

If I read this correctly, they claim stainless is ferrous.
Notice the reference to galvanic corrosion.

http://www.inoxgrp.co.uk/pdf%20files/Tech%20sheets/PhysChem.pdf

Yup,
 Stainless Steel is still steel,,BUT,,with a higher content of things in it than other steels. Things like nickle and chromium.
For our purposes we needn't worry much if at all.

If we were concerned about a stainless bolt becoming frozen in an aluminum part the big solution would be to Heli-coil the hole.

 Any galvanic reaction would be confined to between the stainless coil and the aluminum .

[Blue Ridge Wheeltor]

Interesting discussion:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212510

[mtrueblood]

wire brushed the rust off, and then painted the nuts with engine enamel

how come I can't upload a picture (only 250KB).  I keep getting this message:
The upload folder is full. Please try a smaller file and/or contact an administrator.

[Blue Ridge Wheeltor]

I got that same message yesterday with a picture of proper size.

[ScooterBob]

This is a very good point - I think, however that NON-FERROUS Stainless alloys - even when placed with dis-similar metals - offer galvanic corrosion protection. I know that if you put iron pipe and copper together in a boiler / chiller system, it'll rot out 1/2" thick stuff in a year if you don't use dielectric flanges .... It's crazy, I tell ya .... crazy! Any chiller guys out there know the poop on non-ferrous stainless alloy corrosion?? NOW I'm interested ...... 

After a little further reading on that subject, I find that what I MEANT to say here was NON-MAGNETIC - You guys are right - stainless STEEL is ferrous because it has IRON in it (gimme a big DUH-HUH!! ) - I was confusing THAT with the stuff that has so much nickel and chrome and what not in it that it isn't magnetic anymore. That's supposed to be the least corrosive. Bear in mind that I'm not going to get out a folding chair and a beer and watch mine corrode, though - I'm going to RIDE the dang thing - and if, in my lifetime, the head nuts tinkle down through all the cylinder fins and land on top of the case - I'll repair it ...... but 'til THEN .........  ........ just ridin'.

[mtrueblood]

I've been trying to upload a picture of the repairs I made (only about 250KB ~ much smaller than the 4MB limit), but I keep getting this message: "The upload folder is full. Please try a smaller file and/or contact an administrator. "  I shrunk the photo down to a useless 5KB (fingernail size), but I get the same message.

Anyway, I wirebrushed the rust off of the nuts and bolts, and painted on some engine enamel.

[mtrueblood]

engine enamel on rusty nuts and bolts.  the color match isn't great, but I'm no longer worried about the machine rusting out from under me.