Author Topic: oil circulation and loss (Read 2986 times)

hobocos · **on:** June 09, 2010, 04:24:46 am

ok after hearing rumors of two oil pumps. one from the oil tank to the head and an other to return to the tank. if this is true and the return pump is not working very well or at all then the oil in the tank would never rise after starting. the oil in the tank would seem to be very clean as compared to the oil in the crank case the oil that seems to be blowing out at a very high rate. can this be so and if so where is that return pump. thanky

mrunderhill1975a · **Reply #1 on:** June 09, 2010, 05:29:57 am

RE bullet has two oil pumps, one takes oil from the tank and pumps it through the crank where it lubs the big end bearing. The oil then is scavenged in the dry sump and pumped to the rocker blocks in the head. The oil then trickles down around the push rods and into the timeing chest. From there the oil collect and spills into the tank to repeat the procedura all over again.

1Blackwolf1 · **Reply #2 on:** June 09, 2010, 02:19:42 pm

Here's where the pumps are located in the engine. They are below the oval shaped covers at the front and back of the timing case.

ace.cafe · **Reply #3 on:** June 09, 2010, 04:02:40 pm

You can loosen one of the banjo bolts on the head, where the external oil lines attach, and see if oil is coming out when it's running.
If oil comes flowing out when you loosen a banjo bolt, then the scavenge pump is working.

If not, there is also a possibility of blockage in the external oil lines or banjos. Blockage in the lines sometimes happens.

1Blackwolf1 · **Reply #4 on:** June 09, 2010, 05:35:05 pm

Another option is that the quill drive is snapped. That would also cause one pump to turn and the other wouldn't. Just remembered that one.

hobocos · **Reply #5 on:** June 10, 2010, 12:21:20 pm

thanks i'll check all that this weekend

hobocos · **Reply #6 on:** June 12, 2010, 03:21:40 pm

well the oil is going to the head. after draining the oil collection can and taking about a 20 min. ride i got about an 1/8 or more cup of oil in the collector how much is normal on an hour ride. are both oil pumps supposed to be the same size or is the one towards the front of the bike bigger, becouse mine is much bigger in front.

The Garbone · **Reply #7 on:** June 12, 2010, 03:44:18 pm

I was looking at your past posts and one stated you were getting 75lbs compression... Might you have blow by on your rings and this is causing your oil loss?

ace.cafe · **Reply #8 on:** June 12, 2010, 03:48:58 pm

Quote from: hobocos on June 12, 2010, 03:21:40 pm

well the oil is going to the head. after draining the oil collection can and taking about a 20 min. ride i got about an 1/8 or more cup of oil in the collector how much is normal on an hour ride. are both oil pumps supposed to be the same size or is the one towards the front of the bike bigger, becouse mine is much bigger in front.

The front pump is supposed to be bigger. That's normal.

I don't lose that much oil when I ride, but an ounce in 60 miles, you might be able to live with.

If your compression really is 75psi as Garbone mentioned, that is too low, and you could be suffering blow-by past the rings.

hobocos · **Reply #9 on:** June 13, 2010, 02:00:25 am

when i did that compression test i did it wrong. it turns out the compression is 125. i was thinking i would just have to pull over every so often and dump the oil from the collector back into the tank. i'm not sure if i can go a full tank with out filling the collector.

ace.cafe · **Reply #10 on:** June 13, 2010, 02:23:15 am

What year is your bike?

hobocos · **Reply #11 on:** June 13, 2010, 03:16:38 am

its a 99 old style with a new piston and head

ace.cafe · **Reply #12 on:** June 13, 2010, 04:01:40 am

Just do a search for my suggested breather hose routing method, and it should take care of the issues.

mbevo1 · **Reply #13 on:** June 14, 2010, 01:39:19 pm

Quote from: ace.cafe on June 13, 2010, 04:01:40 am

Just do a search for my suggested breather hose routing method, and it should take care of the issues.

I drilled out the "old" breather nipple on my '07 and routed the breather to the rear fender... might be the best mod I've done... I can fill the oil to the full mark and haven't had significant oil loss since. Used to have to put in a squirt every fill up and clean all the breather stuff every few hundred miles...

Mike and Stumpy in Michigan

hobocos · **Reply #14 on:** June 27, 2010, 02:07:34 am

well i put a steel line with a quick 90 to the bottom of the tank and looped it down to the oil catch and ran a line under the fender and out the back. that didn't seem to make a huge difference. then i ran a steel line bypassing the catch and out the back there was a lot of bending involved. i still seem to be losing oil, though i noticed that oil was on the barrel and looked as if it was coming out of the head, this is a little disappointing.

ace.cafe · **Reply #15 on:** June 27, 2010, 02:13:52 am

What size steel line were you using?
It needs about 3/8" I.D.
And it has to have the duckbill on the end.
No catch can needed.

As for the head leak, welcome to the club!
Common occurrence.
Don't try to just torque it down harder. That has bad consequences.

Do a search for "spigot" and read about how to properly cure the head leaks.

hobocos · **Reply #16 on:** June 27, 2010, 03:03:36 am

i guess i screwed up. the line is much smaller than the 3/8 it looked about the same size as the inside diameter of the hole out of the engine. no duck bill, i guess i should put it back to the original until i get the right size line and a duck bill

hobocos · **Reply #17 on:** June 27, 2010, 03:17:52 am

well i learned all about spigots, now it never seemed to leak much before, or maybe it was that i hadn't ridden as many miles at one time about 400 in two days. the thing is that my son put on the new piston and head and I'm sure he had no idea of the spigot situation. if i took of the head i am assuming i need a new gasket would that be correct. now what happens when there is no duck bill and the pressure is not right inside the lower end

The Garbone · **Reply #18 on:** June 27, 2010, 03:35:22 pm

There should be a duckbill inside the catch can you can reuse.

If you don't want to go down the road of monkeying with the spigot just get a composite gasket from CMW.. My 07 had a pretty consistent leak at the head and that gasket fixed it right up.

hobocos · **Reply #19 on:** June 28, 2010, 02:15:18 pm

the composit gasket i can handle better than messing with the spigot, that seems beyond my comfort zone. as for the duck bill i just ended up putting everything back to stock and it runs so good that i might just keep it that way