[tstaton]

I have a 2008 Bullet 500 Deluxe, which I just bought about 3 months ago.  Up to this point, it has ran great, and I've been really happy with it.  Yesterday, however, I went to start it up and got nothing.  For a few days, the electric starter has given me issues.  It doesn't even make a sound like the engine is trying to crank up with I push the start button.  I just assumed there was an electric problem, and was using the kick start.  Yesterday, the kick start wouldn't even work.  It gave a little bit of a sound, but never really choked like it was anywhere close to starting.

When I bought this bike (used with 2,000 miles on it), the previous owner told me that the spark plug frequently gunks up and he replaces it often.  Could my issue be as simple as that?  If so, do I have to buy a new spark plug from Royal Enfield, or can I just pick one up from an auto body store that will fit?

Has anyone else had similar issues to this?  Any advice on what to do?  I live in New York City, and could take it to a mechanic, but, this being my first motorcycle, I'm pretty ignorant to maintenance right now and would hate to take it to a mechanic if it's an issue I could fix myself.  Thanks for any help you can provide.

[1Blackwolf1]

  I'm looking at the battery here.  What is it's condition?  You need a fairly well charged battery to even kick start these.  If the battery is low on charge forget the electric start. 

  If you do a lot of short trips the battery has little chance of building up a charge.  You may want to purchase a battery tender and have it installed so you can keep the battery charged up to peak voltage.
 
  That's where I would start in the trubleshooting chain.  Eliminate the easy before you move on.  And I would change the plug if you have been attempting to start it for a while.  May have the engine/plug flooded.

 

[Kevin Mahoney]

I agree, Put in a new plug first. I 'd like to tell you that it is a special plug that can only be purchased from us or a dealer, but that just isn't true. You can get one anywhere.

The battery/charging system is where I'd look next. When that bike is running the charge needle should be right of center.

[tstaton]

Thanks so much for the info.  What about purchasing a battery tender?  Is that also something I can pick up at an auto body store, or does it need to be purchased from Royal Enfield?

[tstaton]

Also, is it possible that the problem is my battery even though the head light and blinkers work fine?

[Chasfield]

This MCN article should give you the picture on battery tenders.

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/Products/productsresults/Parts-accessories/2008/November/nov2708-top-5-battery-chargers/

With a with a new plug, you may find that your bike bursts into life. It is the easiest thing to fuel foul the plug on a cold start when using the enrichment lever.

It is possible for a battery that lights up the headlight not to have enough punch to turn over a starter motor, but I would generally expect it to be good for a kick start. If it is a couple of years old and the bike has spent time laid up for the winter then your battery may have degraded somewhat.

The other thing to have a look at is the points gap and condition (if you don't have electronic ignition).

Remove the distributor dust cap (two screws) and check that the points open 15 thou or so when the back of the points cam is under the follower heel. Then pry them apart a bit more and introduce a small flat warding file or proper points file between them so that you can apply a bit of gentle abrasion to get any surface gunk off. All this should be done with ignition off and key out unless you would like to experience a succession of minor electric shocks from coil back emf (yes, I have done that before).

[1Blackwolf1]

  You can get a battery tender at any auto parts store.  If your battery is toast most any battery store can supply one of those. 

[UncleErnie]

This will either keep you up nights, or cure your insomnia;
http://www.dansmc.com/MC_repaircourse.htm
Also order a shop manual. 

Personally, I would start going over the whole bike because you're just at the end of break-in but you don't know the history yet- do you?  How many oil changes, valves checked after re-torquing the heads, etc.
Besides charging the battery, make sure the fluid levels are correct.  If acid levels are low, the battery will not charge.  Also, regular batteries don't last forever.

I recommend getting to know a cycle shop.  They'll have catalogues and products specifically for motorcycles- like NGK spark plugs, motorcycle-specific oil, and battery tenders.   

[tstaton]

If this was simply a problem with the battery, wouldn't it still start on the kick start or at least sound like it was trying to turn over with the electric start?  When I hit the electric start button, it literally doesn't make a sound.

[UncleErnie]

Not if it'd dead enough.  For one thing, the lights are drawing power from a weak battery already.  There's a way to stop the lights being on all the time- do a "search".

[proxemics]

sounds like my bike. haha. i have posted countless times on starting issues and just fixed a week long failure to start with a simple spark plug replace. these guys know their bikes, and if ive learned one thing so far, its start with the easy stuff.

[Ice]

Hi tstaton and welcome aboard.

sounds like my bike. haha. i have posted countless times on starting issues and just fixed a week long failure to start with a simple spark plug replace. these guys know their bikes, and if ive learned one thing so far, its start with the easy stuff.

This is good advice.  ( don't ask me how I know  )

[1Blackwolf1]

If this was simply a problem with the battery, wouldn't it still start on the kick start or at least sound like it was trying to turn over with the electric start?  When I hit the electric start button, it literally doesn't make a sound.

  Like Uncle ernie said, a near dead/dead battery is already giving anything it has to make the lights come on.  You can literally kick it until the cows come home and nothing will happen.
  
  If these had a magneto that generated electrical impulse when you kicked them you could get it to start.  No magneto no start with a low battery.  You need to at least energize the primary side of the ignition system (coil) with good voltage and amperage before you can get anywhere.  There's more to it than that, but will start slow here.

  You could use a car charger if one is available but only use the 12V/2A range..and only let it charge about 6 hours before disconnecting the charger.  Then see if you can kick start it.  The only draw back here is that you may shorten the life of the battery, but at this point we (those responding) really are grasping at straws to determine how to help.

  We really need to start with a fully charged battery to help you out..you could replace the battery I suppose if you have 50 bucks you can part with.  But then again we still don't know if that's the whole problem.    I can almost bet that you also have a battery cable very loose or poorly grounded.  SO these are the things to start with..1) Charge Battery  2) Clean and tighten all battery cables and ground points.  Let us know how it's going.

[bri]

I'm a big fan of the battery tenderer.  The only reason I can't get my bike to start now is due to my own stupidity: leaving the kill switch on or forgetting to turn on the fuel...

[1Blackwolf1]

The real benfit is that a tender won't overcharge the battery.  So it's always at peak voltage.

[jlearman]

Hey Guys - I'm actually tstaton's roommate & am pretty familiar with the bike.  I have a triumph and work on it a fair amount, so am a bit more familiar with bikes...

Anyway... I put a voltmeter on the battery, and it's putting out 12.38 volts.  Given this, and the fact that his starter has been intermittent for a few weeks, and that the electric start isn't even "trying" to turn over (and has NEVER tried to turn over.  It's just all or nothing), I'm fairly certain this isn't a battery issue.

We're going to try a new spark plug tonight (even though this plug has less than 1000 miles and 2 months on it), which will hopefully get the kick start working, but will certainly not fix the electric start.  So... any clues on where to start looking on the starter?  When i engage the button, the voltmeter on the bike dips to the left a little bit... but there's absolutely no sound or click from bike.  Could it need a new solenoid (don't even know what a solenoid does, but I know that they go bad).  Is it bad wiring?  New starter entirely?  Any connections in particular that I can check?  We did recently replace the headlight, brake lever, and brake bulb.  Is there anything easily foul-able that we could have messed up while digging around in the headlight bucket?

Thanks again for all of your help!

[The Garbone]

You could try to short the 2 large posts on the solenoid (located in the left tool box).  It should make a nice electrical popping sound and turn the starter when you do it.

I personally would forget about the E-start and work on mastering the kicker..  If the bike is in proper tune and you know how to kick it you don't need the ES.  The thing was only added because it would be easier to market the bike with it on,  when in the end all it does is make starting that much harder.

One big bonus about the kicker is that as you position the piston you can feel the state of the engine.  How smooth it rolls, if there is a drag,  how good the compression feels, watching the point open and close on you ammeter.  These are things you can not feel with a electric leg and on old design finicky bikes like these it can bite you in the ass..    

[Ice]

HI jlearman.

 Welcome aboard and thanks for stepping up to help an Enfield rider.

 The pseudo cliff notes version;
Batteries when defective can have the voltage and still fail to deliver the Amperage.

Starter solenoid should be in the L/H tool box. Ground connections are crucial.
 
Electrical connectors are plain brass and the covers are not weather tight.
A good cleaning and coating with LPS or dialectic grease solves and/or prevents many problems.

[jlearman]

I personally would forget about the E-start and work on mastering the kicker..  

I hear ya... and good advice about feeling the motor.  wish I could do that on my triumph.  BUT... when you still stall the bike a traffic lights with impatient NYC drivers behind you... electric start is fabulous.

Batteries when defective can have the voltage and still fail to deliver the Amperage.

Starter solenoid should be in the L/H tool box. Ground connections are crucial.
 
Electrical connectors are plain brass and the covers are not weather tight.
A good cleaning and coating with LPS or dialectic grease solves and/or prevents many problems.

very good to know... but what is LPS?  thanks!

[Jinx]

 Guess a good way to check the starter relay would be to jump it. It's a round thing in the left tool box looks like a 35mm film can. it has 2 large wires and 2 small wires with a connector. The large terminals are hot from batt through starter relay to the terminal on starter. The relay is activated by the small wires which go to the start button and neutral and clutch safety. They complete a circuit.
 You could quickly touch the hot batt to the other large wire/lug. that should send power straight to the starter. It should spin if the starter is good.
 You can unplug the the 2 wire conector and put the meter to the 2 small wires on the harness. When in neutral or clutch pulled in and you hit the start button you should see 12volts to activate the relay. If not then it's prob a start switch issue or a ground issue. Ground to the relay is provided by the N switch on the back of the tranny and the clutch safety switch.
 Alot of times the relay needs a good smack or two with a wrench to free a stuck open or stuck closed relay.
 There's a dozen ways to check the relay,starter circuit. This is just a few ways. I'm sure others here have much better tricks to debug the electrical. I've been known to fight electrons for weeks till I get it right.

[1Blackwolf1]

  Wiring is very prone to connectors coming loose especially in the headlight nacelle.  You may want to open it back up and make sure everything is still snapped together. 

  Like Ice said batteries can show voltage but still be to weak to start anything.  Amps here are what do the trick.  And it still takes a good battery to kick start these, no power is made until the engine is actually running.  Bad grounds from the battery to frame are not uncommon..usually just corrosion/paint doing the damage.

  From all the symptoms described you have a charging issue on board.  At least that's what appears to be going on.  From you rpartners accounts it has degraded to this condition over time.  If the shorting of the starter solenoid doesn't help..I'd try the charger to the battery and see what happens.  I've been working on this kind of stuff for better than 34 years.  I've seen supposed good batteries not worth spit for starting/charging.

 

[bob bezin]

well i have a strange problem  . if i hit my starter nothing happens . i discovered a little tecnique .   i pull the clutch, hit the starter, and then kick the bike over ( with the compression release pulled ) then release the compression  release. then the starter kicks in  and the bike just starts.  the kicking of the bike over seems to stimulate the starter to work. ... does this make any sense?  it works for me.

[jlearman]

Well, Good news - we got the bike working last night.  It was combination of 2 small problems: 1) bad spark plug 2) loose wire connector.  We replaced the spark plug and nothing was happening, so we took it out and kicked it to see if it was even sparking.  It wasn't.  So, we knew we had an electrical issue.  We played around with some wires running down the forks and found a connector just being the headlamp that was loose.  Popped those two together, and worked perfectly... electric start and everything.  Went for a ride last night & it's running great (except that it's running lean... shoots black smoke out the exhaust... which is probably what is fouling the spark plugs).

The plug is in a spot where if you turned the handle bars it would push the wires together... thus the irregularity of the starter.

[ROVERMAN]

Black smoke = running overrich,a rarity in the world of RE.
Robert & REnfield in Michigan. P.S. Welcome to the forum and ride safe.

[RBHoge]

"When I bought this bike (used with 2,000 miles on it), the previous owner told me that the spark plug frequently gunks up and he replaces it often.  Could my issue be as simple as that?  If so, do I have to buy a new spark plug from Royal Enfield, or can I just pick one up from an auto body store that will fit"

Brother, I think that you might have stated the clue to your problem. Check the "enricher" (A.K.A. Choke.)

On my 2008 Iron Head Deluxe I had a similar problem, and was changing out spark plugs every fifty to a hundred miles.   Kevin entered a post a long time ago that I stumbled upon that mentioned how the rubber ring on top of the "enricher" will slip from it's groove and ride up on the plunger bar. With the rubber gizmo out of place, the enricher will not turn off, resulting in a very rich mixture that will foul the plugs out very quickly.  It took a little diddling to get the "rubber gizmo" back in place. (It has jumped its mounting only once since then and is now held in place with a tiny drop of 'Super Glue". I went to the local Auto Parts store and bought "Champion RN2c" plugs to replace the NGK (OEM) plugs.  I never could get one of the NGK plugs to work after cleaning.    

[RBHoge]

Another thing to try with the electric start, would be to open the left side cover and look at the solenoid. (They are troublesome boogers.) with solenoid exposed, hold in the clutch, turn on the ignition and push the starter button. If the bike does not respond, you should at least hear a faint clicking from the solenoid. If all else fails, have someone tap the solenoid with a screwdriver handle. The starter should engage and you are running.  This is a bit complicated to explain, but not to accomplish, and after the engine is running you have to turn it back off to get the key to close the side cover.