Author Topic: Whrr-whrr-whrr-CRACK!  (Read 3855 times)

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boggy

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on: May 06, 2010, 02:54:00 am
That is the sound I often hear first starting the bike in the morning, or after a full workday.

It doesn't matter if it is the e-start or the kick.  If I try the e-start it makes that sound, "Whrr-whrr-whrr..." getting up to speed then just "CRACK," with a nice puff of smoke from I don't know where.  I'll switch to the kick... find what I think is TDC and give it a kick.  Same "CRACK," minus the whrr-whrr-whrr of the electric bits. 

Then, as if none of that ever happened... whether I switch back to e-start or kick, it fires right up.

What is that crack sound and smoke, and where the hell are they coming from?
I'm usually good about a few decompression strokes, but I admit I get lazy.
I think I'm running rich... a contributor?
OR, is this just an Enfield's version of the middle finger?

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2006 DRZ400SM


r80rt

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Reply #1 on: May 06, 2010, 02:58:23 am
Sounds like the ole middle finger to me.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 04:26:40 pm by r80rt »
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ace.cafe

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Reply #2 on: May 06, 2010, 03:01:09 am
I'm thinkin' it ain't good.

Got sprag written all over it.
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scoTTy

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Reply #3 on: May 06, 2010, 03:58:52 am
Quote
Got sprag written all over it.

 soUNds like a TwILIgHt zOnE episodE


Bullet Whisperer

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Reply #4 on: May 06, 2010, 01:41:15 pm
It may even be a slight blow from the head joint, as you mention a puff of smoke. The cylinder pressure as the engine fires and starts to run [cold and with a bit of throttle will be pretty high in the initial stage of picking up speed from staring. Many head joints will blow from cold and be ok once warmed up a bit. Maybe time to nip the head nuts down.
 B.W.


UncleErnie

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Reply #5 on: May 17, 2010, 12:00:15 am
The code for that must be in the appendix.   
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1Blackwolf1

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Reply #6 on: May 17, 2010, 12:06:47 am
  Think he's talking about illicit sex with a can of spam.  Sick bas#$rd.
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Ice

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Reply #7 on: May 17, 2010, 05:49:39 am
Br Boggy are you using the de comp at start up and shut down ?
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KB8ANY

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Reply #8 on: May 31, 2010, 07:42:59 pm
Boggy:

You asked me a question on my post back in May 12 or 16 or sometime.  Sorry to take so long to respond.

I think the problem you describe sounds like the one I had.

I am convinced that the initial problem was the ignition switch.  Just be aware that it could have been any connection or element (like the ammeter) in the ignition circuit.

I have since discovered that the irregular firing then caused other problems.  For example, at one point it fired so early that it blew the PAV hose off of the nipple on the intake mainfold.  This in turn caused it to run really, really lean, which only made the problem worse.  For example, on the way from Chicago to Cincinnati in early May I stuck to SR 41, not the expressway, because when running against the wind the bike could only do 35 mph in places.  Also, when pulling in for gas in some small town, I kept the throttle open and used the cut-off switch so it would not do the CRACK from trying to run backwards when the RPM's fell off.

Good luck.

Paul


Ice

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Reply #9 on: June 01, 2010, 03:57:31 am
By chance are you running the old BLACK ignition box ?

 If so a quick call to CMW with your VIN number should get you the GREEN ignition box for free.

 GREEN box is much more sprag friendly.
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KB8ANY

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Reply #10 on: June 02, 2010, 11:40:11 am
Ice:

Yes, I have the green TCI; installed it just after the Chicago trip I describe above.  I had never had a problem like this before, and the new TCI took the motor's performance back to where it had been before it all started, so I knew it had to be something that had changed elsewhere (i.e., it was something that I could track down given enough time.)

In a different post in the FAQ section I described how the problem began minor, got worse, and then got like Boggy describes.

Boggy:

I have learned something that blows my mind.  This machine apparently _needs_ ATF in the primary drive, not oil.  For 16,000 miles I had been congratulating myself that I was doing the right thing by using Rotella-T in the primary drive.  For proof I used the fact that the primary drive chain showed no measurable stretch ( ! ) from 300 to 16,000 miles.  Then at about 16,500 it started "catching" somewhere in the drive.  At first I thought it was the chain snapping against the inside top of the case.  This noise could be quite loud (but not the same thing as the CRACK we are writing about in this thread).

I went down to Domi Racer, and the parts guy there described what he thought was happening.  He said that most likely one or a couple of the dogs in the sprag clutch would catch, snatch their parthers with them against the spring, and then release, and they would all snap back.  Because the clutch is so heavy (you have to heft it to believe it ! ) it could really be a loud snap.

The dealer told me to use ATF, the tech guy at Classic told me to use ATF, and, I have to admit, the first time I changed fluids the primary drive fluid came out thin and red.  I thought it had been contaminated somehow.  Long story short - I changed to ATF, and it was like magic - this little problem almost disappeared.  I flushed and changed it again 200 miles later, and the problem went away completely.  I took the works apart and inspected everything, and the dingy color inside the inner circumference of the outer sprag clutch bell was gone.  So I guess it will be ATF from now on.  Will have to wait to see how well it protects the drive chain.

Final observation:  one thing we all should do once or twice in our bike's life is adjust the carburetor-and-slow-idle the way it is described in the carb section of the owner's manual.  I don't mean just the speed adjustment screw; I mean the pilot screw and speed adjustment screw adjustment procedure described in section 08.  You might be surprised at the performance improvement.  Now I can set the idle so slow that I can count the beats.

Just an editorial comment: I have never had so many gremlins in an internal combustion engine before.  Even my superbikes were more forgiving than this, and this motor is mechanically quite simple.  The dealer, whom I really respect, keeps talking about the problems caused by modern formulations of gasoline.  I have come to think he is right.

Good luck.

Paul
« Last Edit: June 02, 2010, 11:43:09 am by KB8ANY »


Ice

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Reply #11 on: June 03, 2010, 12:32:33 am
Glad you got it sorted.
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Tiny Tim

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Reply #12 on: June 03, 2010, 10:21:17 am
Paul, et al,

Beware the slow tick-over.

Even though it's VERY impresive to be able to count the revs and it does make the engine sound so well maintained, this was the cause of two sprag failures for me.

On both occassions, the engine stalled on ultra slow tickover and managed to back-fire as it did so.

CLANG!

Exit one sprag.

Twice.

OK so I'm a slow learner but at least I'm learning.

The AVL engine has a higher compression ratio to the Iron Barreld engine. I believe that that is the reason that sprag failures on the Iron Barreled Electric Start are less common.

One way or another, it seems to be the higher compression backfire that forces the sprag backwards and into the area of self destruction, usually with the sound of a 4 pound hammer on an anvil.
REgards

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boggy

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Reply #13 on: June 03, 2010, 04:40:47 pm
I do use my decomp lever on start/shut down. 

I'm not sure if there is a timing problem with my ignition.  My kicking starting has become better.  For me, it was choke related (I think).

In the AM, I do 3 decomp kick-overs.  Choke on.  Fuel on.  ONE nice kick and it goes.  Even after days of sitting.

In the PM, after anywhere from 8-12 hours later, if I repeat that process it cracks like hell.  I tried not using my choke that past few PM starts, and bingo.  She kicks over like gravy.  Its weird because the PM temperature outside really doesn't change a heck of a lot in these cases.  I don't understand it.

The one monkey in this wrench(?) is that when my bike is cold, AM or PM, my "E start" will NOT turn over the engine.  It doesn't even sound like it's trying.  Just wrrrrrrrr electric sound.  If the bike is hot, and I shut it down for a few minutes it starts back up.  Not sure if that is an electrical drain.

So, the adventures and mysteries continue.  Thanks for all that info... certainly helps to read other folk's trials.

Thanks.
Boggy
2007 AVL
2006 DRZ400SM


PhilJ

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Reply #14 on: June 03, 2010, 07:43:34 pm
Sounds very similar to a problem I had. Yours seems to be in the early stages. What I finally did was pull the carb, disassemble and put it the carb bath I got from NAPA. Thirty minutes later rinsed and blew it out really good with my compressor. Problem solved. Back to starting 1st kick, no choke needed and no more flooding. You didn't mention flooding is the reason I said 'early stages', because mine was as you described except the flooding.


boggy

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Reply #15 on: June 03, 2010, 09:16:17 pm
Disassembling the carb is on my list.  I bought my REnfield used and it has an aftermarket flat-s(l)ide carb on it, and aftermarket wide open pipe.  I'm not convinced it was set up properly.  From what folks say here, the jetting can be quite sensitive. It will, for sure, be beneficial to pull things apart.
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