[singhg5]

Finally Harley Davidson has set up shop in India and are booking orders for bikes for delivery in June.  They have an interesting Indian website.  Here is what I found out.

They have only five dealers in the whole country, one in each of these five big cities - Delhi, Bombay, Bangalore, Hyderabad and Chandigarh. HD will sell 12 models.  What is so shocking is the PRICE of these bikes.  They have to pay heavy excise duty that shoots prices through the roof.  Here is a list of approximate prices in US dollars in two countries.  

Model                           Price in India (US$)              Price in USA (US$)

Sportster 883                    $15,000                                $8,000

Sportster 1200                  $21,000                              $10,000

Dyna street bob                 $29,000                              $13,000

Softail fat boy                    $38,000                               $17,000

Touring road king               $43,000                              $17,000

COMPARE THAT TO RE CLASSIC 500 or C5

RE Classic 500                    $2,600                               $6,400

Do you think people in India would buy HD at these prices, when they can buy a RE classic 500 or a Nano car for approximately $2600 ?  Or is it a bad venture for HD unless they start manufacturing there ?

[Ice]

Br. singhg5,
 I do not believe it will be the average blue collar Indian buying those H-D's.
I do believe the affluent who can afford them will rave about them to their peers while the average guy shakes his head at the waste of fuel and money.
 

[1Blackwolf1]

  I shake my head at disbelief at the prices here anyway.  They've become a toy for the rich.  While the average person rides something less costly.  Sure an Enfield C5/G5 is in roughly the same price range as a Sportster but the Sporty is running an ancient design engine.  Nothing really new in over 50 years.  Even though it only has half the engine size of the Sporty, the Enfield is at least trying to keep pace with new designs.

  The only new design by H-D recently has been the V-Rod.  But that's out of price range for comparison.  And it's a Porsche designed engine and trans package, so you really can't call it American Iron.

  I have had H-D's in the past.  But were purchased as fixer uppers.  Will probably rebuild another in the future..but even the cost of that is becoming prohibitive.  And it's getting hard to find NOS parts for the older machines.

  As Ice said even here it's more the well off than the blue collar buying them a lot of times.   

[r80rt]

No.

[Cabo Cruz]

Br. Sing, keep the Sporty and pass the C5, please.  

[REpozer]

I can't remember the article to reproduce here, but in essence it stated that India has many millionares and the number continuous to grow.
That stated, its my observation that many countries do not have a middle class.
You are  either rich or your poor( I'm not talking about a 300 lbs person that drives a 10 year old car like you see in the States) dirt poor , someone that makes less then a $ 1 an hour an really lives in a tin/cardboard shack and gets up and goes to work.
If you are poor, you will not be able to purchase an RE, even in India. If you are rich , then a H-D might be something you want .
Currently our middle class is struggling to survive.There are many reasons , that might be anther good thread , but I' ll spare you the boredom.
So to answer your question ,No I don't see a H-D in my future,mainly because of the high price, and next due to the stigma of being a fat rich retied accountant  wearing leathers with package creases,and  drags his feet at stop lights.
H-D has become very undesirable to me. No thanks H-D.

[GBBullet]

I ride both a Bullet iron barrel and an HD and they both have their uses.  If I am running to a job site and have to take the Eway, better believe that I'm on my Softtail. If I'm going trout fishing up in the mountains, chances are I'm on my Bullet.  Oh, I'm not a retired accountant or fat, and I ride my bike to trailer week.

[PaulF]

Currently our middle class is struggling to survive.There are many reasons , that might be anther good thread , but I' ll spare you the boredom.

What middle class? We are all just government wards of the Obama vision now, (I'd better watch what I say since free speech is now outlawed here in the US).

That being said, no. I wouldn't pay 20K for anything with two wheels when I payed less than that for my SUV brand new.

[Rick Sperko]

What middle class? We are all just government wards of the Obama vision now, (I'd better watch what I say since free speech is now outlawed here in the US).

Now I remember why I don't frequent the Campfire Talk. Even in an innocuous HD thread. I will go back to the technical forums now.

-Rick

[REpozer]

Oh, I'm not a retired accountant or fat, and I ride my bike to trailer week.

I was referring to the  stereo type clone poser, complete with grimith face ,and attitude, by the way I have ridden a custom v twin , great feel above 45 mph.
 I don't care for the direction H-D marketing went , but hey, they  have sold a ton of H-D's, so what do I know?
GB you have my apologies,I enjoy people for who they are , not what they can afford to ride.

[PaulF]

Now I remember why I don't frequent the Campfire Talk. Even in an innocuous HD thread. I will go back to the technical forums now.

-Rick

Sorry Rick. I just couldn't resist a political poke. I will restrain myself.

[ace.cafe]

Well, the Harley is more expensive in India, and the RE is more expensive in the US.

I suppose that by the time the shipping halfway around the world is figured-in, along with whatever duties and taxes and other issues get included, it's probably normal.

[single]

I would not pay that much for anything because I would have to finance it and that is no longer possible.I would buy a Harley in a New York minute if I could, however.If I did not like the ride,I would just polish and admire.But I have ridden them,and I liked.I only ride the RE as I believe I will be happier with it that way,I stay off other bikes.

[PhilJ]

A use for an H-D ..... an anchor. 

[GBBullet]

I was referring to the  stereo type clone poser, complete with grimith face ,and attitude, by the way I have ridden a custom v twin , great feel above 45 mph.
 I don't care for the direction H-D marketing went , but hey, they  have sold a ton of H-D's, so what do I know?
GB you have my apologies,I enjoy people for who they are , not what they can afford to ride.

No offense taken there is room for everyone on the ride or on the road

[scoTTy]

U can buy a new BMW cheaper..  I've always had BMW's... even have a 3 cylinder I'm been playing with for a couple of years..  someday amybe.. I'll put it together

but you know what

The RE is all I need now..  more smiles for the miles..

at the pizza joint tonight there was a hell' angel wanna be..  had all the proper decals..  the newly painted craosbones thingy.. pony tail ..  new bike.. new leathers, new helmet..  and some woman .. he also hung some really ugly bags on this new 20,000 plus bike..   

erk..  some people never grow up and if they did they would mistake it for something else

[birdmove]

    I have both a Royal Enfield 500 Bullet Classic (iron barrel) and a Harley-Davidson XL883 Sportster.like them both.I also like my Yamaha XT225.

   jon

[boggy]

20 grand?  Maybe the seat is made of gold.  I'd check the brochure. 

[Ice]

 I love my H-D (Shovel Head ) Its a fantastic road machine and I won't part with it for neither love nor money.

 Rubber mounted engine and five speed transmission that shifts like a dream instant throttle response, more than enough torque and horse power to do stupid stuff   get out of danger zones, excellent disc brakes, good fuel economy ( avg 50 MPG HWY )  and boringly reliable too.
 While not a sport bike It corners more than well enough for me to grind the foot boards when I feel like it.   .  

The " Motor Company" ?
 Their corporate policies and especially the dealerships practices caused the withdrawal of my support for the "The Brand" some twenty years ago.
I among others have not yet found reason to change that position but I do wish them the best of luck if or no other reason than the families of the employees.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Birdmove,
 I am envious. I like Yamaha's Xt's better than my Honda XR.

[RGT]

Those prices for India don't seem so extreme when you figure an RE is several times more expensive in the states than in India. I bet they will sell quite a few. Having been in some pretty poor parts of the world I am always surprised to see high cost American products. In Tunisia there were many Hummers which with all the taxes... that their governement put on were costing people $150k+.  You can like HD's corporate policies or not but they are around today because of them, they make their money on licensing the brand, they break even on selling bikes. Making a quality product in the states is expensive. I don't own a Harley yet, but will, but from my experience with them I don't think you can honestly compare their build quality and durability to that of the RE.

[Bug_Catcher]

U can buy a new BMW cheaper..  I've always had BMW's... even have a 3 cylinder I'm been playing with for a couple of years..  someday amybe.. I'll put it together

How easy is the BMW as far as maintenance goes?  Especially self maintenance?  I spend my free days loitering at my mechanic's shop trying to pick things up and a guy pulled a BMW in the other day with a bad alternator.  The look on my mechanic's face was of sadness.  What they had to do just to get to the alternator was pretty crazy, the entire engine had to be unmounted, it sat there for weeks and turned into a 1000 dollar labor job.  I even got a picture: 

I brought my mechanic ice cream that week as well as cookies because that BMW was really ticking him off. Felt bad.

oh and p.s I'd never 20k for a bike unless it was some sort of museum collector piece and I had money running out my ears.  That's my C5, my Interceptor II, and 1 more iron barrel to fight with! 

[REpozer]

Yep, don't get me wrong. If I could find a nice Hog, collecting dust in someones garage and at a bargen price, I would snap one up.
After going to several H-D dealers though the years , and watching the poser clones, and seeing the big price tag, its just not near worth the price.
I find their marketing to be a big turn off as well, I already know who I am and don't need to purchase my identity to fit in.

[Ice]

I don't think you can honestly compare their build quality and durability to that of the RE.

Br. RGT,
 I think you hit the bulls eye here especially when we compare shovel heads to iron barrels.
 In the early 1970's AMF dumped many millions into H-D , replacing worn out antiquated machinery,tightening up the Q.C., updating H-D's entire process from raw material to finished product.

Much like the Eicher group has done with R.E.as of late.

The build quality of the G5 at my local dealer is light years ahead of my Iron Barrel.

 I equate the current era of UCE to the late shovel or early evo era I.E. the best yet and a very bright future happening very soon.

 IMHO as long as R.E. does not adopt and sponsor a negative attitude and actions towards the legacy products ( and their owners ) that H-D did, they will avoid the same future backlash that has H-D in a pickle at the moment.

[r80rt]

It's better than a late shovel, darn near Japanese.

[singhg5]

WOW !  What an enthusiastic response.

I hardly expected anyone to chime in for this topic. Views For, Against and Everthing In Between and great insights into the history of HD, its policies, quality issues of HD and RE, cost of doing international business, personal choices, likes and dislikes, etc.etc. expressed in such a gentle way shows the spirit of Royal Enfielders.  Thanks guys and gals (BC).

You All ROCK

May be I should test ride a Sportster - if HD lets me do it !

[Ice]

May be I should test ride a Sportster - if HD lets me do it !

  Then you could say you tried it.

[singhg5]

 Then you could say you tried it.

Finally, I rode an HD sportster.

As I parked my RE at HD dealer, I found several people looking at bikes in the parking lot.   As I walked towards the door, I saw an employee standing and whistling at the door as I walked past him.  No hello nothing. The store was big inside with lots of bikes and no one around.  Suddenly, the guy at the door came inside still whistling and I stopped him and asked for Sportster 883.  There was one only, a 2009 with 2000 miles on it for $7200.  I asked if I can take it for a ride. He took me to a room, had me sign some release paper, looked at my license, and was quite helpful.  He gave me the key, showed the controls and said - be careful and off you go.  

To familiarize myself with the bike, I rode it slowly in the parking lot to get a feel for controls, gear shifter, brake etc.  It felt very different because its foot pegs were way in front - like a cruiser and gear shift lever and rear brake were 'miles' in front.  Since the dealership is on a highway, I wanted to be sure of its handling before taking it off parking lot.  Once on the highway, I found that the bike had powerful pick up, smooth gear shifts, good brakes, and no handle vibrations !! Very quick throttle response.  It was a very impressive machine.

As pointed out by Ice, GBBullet and Birdmove, there is room for everyone on the road. Bullet is great for twisty, small country roads for riding between 0-50 mph because RE is so well balanced that it rides by itself.  HD is definitely the way to go for highways or speeds above 50 mph.  This experience confirmed my view that RE, no matter UCE, Efi,or G5 is not for highways.

Now only if I can find something that does both very well - i.e., country road and highways, uhhhhm  May be a Bonneville

[REpozer]

Finally, I rode an HD sportster.
Now only if I can find something that does both very well - i.e., country road and highways, uhhhhm  May be a Bonneville

Remember, no one bike can do all things well. Its a game of compromises. You can't defy the rules of physics .
Choose wisely.

[scoTTy]

 bug catcher  ......

.if a bmw breaks.. it's expensive if you don't know how to work on them.. I do..  have had them since 1976// r's and K's both//  worked on all of them.. like workining on a lawnmower engine..  lotsa a plastic nowdays though.. takes time to remove..  adds up the dollars

  here's a 20,ooo $ boxer I would buy in a heartbeat IF i won the lottey 2night

don't know if my 62 year olde broken frame work could wrap around the frame very long..  but it would be fun while I couuld I'm sure..
 
 

[birdmove]

   It sounds like you rode the XL883 Custom. They come with forward foot controls and foot pegs. I don't care for the forward controls.My Sportster is an XL883, which is the "standard" models.I don't care for the lowered Sportsters which are the Low models,the Iron 883, the Nightster.These all have shorter suspension, which lets the bikes grind too easily when cornering. I have yet to grind anything on my Sportster, and I have leaned it pretty far.There is a new model called the 48, which also is lowered.

   jon

[singhg5]

  It sounds like you rode the XL883 Custom. They come with forward foot controls and foot pegs. I don't care for the forward controls.My Sportster is an XL883, which is the "standard" models.

   jon

Jon:

You are right on - it was Custom 883, dual seat.  I did not feel very comfortable with controls - too far in front for my legs.  Do you know if the foot pegs and controls on Sportster can be moved back enough to sit straight upright - like a standard motorcycle such as RE or Bonneville ?

[birdmove]

Jon:

You are right on - it was Custom 883, dual seat.  I did not feel very comfortable with controls - too far in front for my legs.  Do you know if the foot pegs and controls on Sportster can be moved back enough to sit straight upright - like a standard motorcycle such as RE or Bonneville ?

   Yes you can. The now discontinued XL883 (like mine), XL883R,XL1200R, and the current XL883 Low and XL1200 Low all have the standard mid foot pegs and foot controls, and they will fit on the models with the forwards on them.I should mention that I tsts rode a Custom model that the previous owner had removed the forwards and installed the mid controls, and I liked that setup way better.The Sportsters are very good motorcycles. They went fuel injected for 2007-that,s why I bought a 2006. I prefer a carb.If you looked at all the crap the fuel injected models (of all makes) have stuffed up inside the gas tanks you might prefer a carb too.

   jon

   jon

[rideOn]

NO. I wouldn't spend $20k on any motorcycle. Well...maybe this one:

http://indianmotorcycle.com/TheMotorcycles1/ChiefBomber/ChiefBomberFeatures/tabid/493/Default.aspx

or:

http://indianmotorcycle.com/TheMotorcycles1/ChiefDarkHorse/ChiefDarkHorseFeatures/tabid/487/Default.aspx

[cyrusb]

Harleys are not for everyone, never have been.

[ace.cafe]

I like some Harleys.
They have a certain appeal.
I think the standard Sportster and the XR Sportster appeal to me more than the big ones.

I think Harley might be in for some tough times ahead. Their bikes are expensive, and they have played out the "chopper-esque" styling to the nth degree.
I'm certainly tired of that look. It's all over the road, and even the Japanese bikes look like that. "Trite" would be an understatement.

I think if I was to get a Harley, I'd probably buy a used carbureted 883, and do a customizing job on it to look like an XR750.

[roberte]

Definitely a fun bike to ride. I had one for about a year in NYC. I had to garage it at night because I was afraid it would get stolen. Parts were a problem--I don't think Harley's ever heard of denominations less than $100. The last straw was when I found out I needed a jack to change a flat.

[stipa]

I have a 1974 Ironhead I ride a little and work on a lot;  in need of lots of TLC at this point.  Fun to ride, (short distances), dripping with attitude, solidly built, (tractor-like), but getting hard to find parts for.  The new ones, with their belt drives, electronic throttles, and MoCo-inspired image, don't do much for me though.  Kind of like tattoos, if anybody and everybody has one, do yoiu really want one too?

[DNash]

I think that if I had that kind of money to spend on a bike, I'd be doing something ridiculous like trying to build a Vincent out of VOC Spares Company parts.

...actually, $20k probably wouldn't cover that. I'd have to settle for a Meteor, or maybe a double-plus nice Bullet Fireball.