[ace]

Hokay guys: I work with the S-K guys in Wi, told the india story hundreds of times at swap meets, 'bout wore out my favorite twill hat and used up my coffee cup, got a gl1800 int he garage momma  and I like to put 5 or 6 thousand mile loops on once or twice a year.

Today Got a shot at really nice 2003 iron lung 4speed w/neutral finder trade in.( that I can afford). just before pulling the trigger my wife happens to call on the cell: says "wait lets talk; perhaps a newer one" suddenly shes agreeable for an AVL  Yeah I'm still shocked.( she mentions taking the mrc and updating  her ticket). we should look into a pair later(!).

I ve seen two AVL  sprags done in the shop,does the iron cylinder have the same sprag issues?
Avl or the 2003 4speed with the pathetically sloppy shift linkage?. I had to shift with the heel of my boot, ( perhaps i can just rotate the shift lever down one spline and put the "inkage bushing kit" in).
new Avl or traditional? Pick your poison?
happy or unhappy AVL OWNERS sound off please
Oh yeah I gota short ride on the c-5 loved it but its just "a bridge a little too far" to justify seeing we just paid off the GL1800...

[Ice]

AVL no doubt. Better engine than my Iron Barrel.

[ace.cafe]

Well, from one "ace" to another, the AVL does have several improvements to the engine, compared to the iron-barrel models.

The AVL has an alloy barrel which definitely helps cooling.
Better oil pumps.
Steel con rod with roller big end.
The 5 speed gearbox is better, but they are also on the later iron barrel models.
Electronic ignition reduces maintenance.

However, there are also some limitations included.
One of them seems to be that the crank-mounted electronic ignition has no ability for re-timing. It isn't a problem if you keep everything stock. If you play with compression increases, you might run into a spot where you can't retard the ignition correctly for the compression increase. I find this to be a serious drawback from my point of view as a modifier.

The con-rod is steel, and has a roller big-end bearing, which is something that we iron-barrel guys like to do to our bikes. That's a good thing.
But, they unfortunately made the roller bearings run directly in the rod, instead of making a pressed-in bearing race, and thus the roller bearing has failure problems. This is curable, but it requires an engine tear-down.
There used to be issues with getting bottom end replacement parts for the AVL, but apparently that has been overcome, because I see people doing things now with the AVL bottom ends.

The gear-type oil pumps are a great improvement for oil delivery in the engine.
But they aren't a positive displacement type pump, so oil drainback can and does cause some wet-sumping issues when the bike is parked for a length of time. Not a big deal, but it can smoke out the exhaust for a minute or two after starting up from a long rest.

The sprags are the same with the iron barrel and the AVL. Very common problem for both types of engines, and not alot can be done about it.

So,there's some good things and some not so good things that came along with the changes to the AVL.

For the iron-barrel, it has been around for ages, so everything that needs improving has aftermarket parts available readily to improve it.  It's a more antique design, but it has been raced alot over the years, and it can be perked-up in power very well.
The 5-speed gearbox is better than the 4-speed box, but the 4-speed isn't too bad, and a right-shift kit and sealed bearings for oil in it can make it nicer. A close ratio gear set is available to improve the ratio gap between 3rd and 4th.
However, if there's a choice, the 5-speed is a better gearbox. The iron-barrel later models have the 5-speed gearbox.
A 2003 iron-barrel model is a very good year, which has the better breather.

I have to admit that I favor the iron-barrel model. I have one and I like it, and it is easy for me to modify and get desired results.
I personally feel that the AVL didn't achieve all the improvements that they could/should have achieved with the re-design, and it fell short.
Its still a good engine, with improvements over the iron-barrel, but the little issues that they "added" along with the improvements were irritating, and didn't have to be there. They could have solved these issues pretty easily, but didn't.

Overall, with a stock bike of either type, it's a good ride, and the AVL has a slightly higher safe cruising speed by a couple of mph.
For me personally, I'd pick the 2003 iron barrel model without hesitation. That's a good year for the iron-barrel models.

[1Blackwolf1]

  If thats the one I've seen from S-K (the classic), you can hardly go wrong on it for less than three bills.  We have both the AVL and the Iron lung here in Wisconsin Rapids, both have their plus/minus column.  As far as the sprague, my iron spit its out once.  Wifeys' Electra has been a bullet proof performer.

  Depends what you want to do with it.  The AVL is also better at speed for the reasons Ace Cafe has mentioned.  So takes to cruising at slightly higher speeds better.  But 60-65 is were it likes to hover happily.  Iron barrel 45-55 (and vary speeds a lot to help with cooling) is about what's safe, in its stock form.  Bill at S-K will tell you 50 is the iron barrels sweet spot.

  I can't vouch for the 4 speed gearbox..don't have one.  But you can read about them on the site.  Lots of guys change them over to oil lube for beter performance.

  Enjoy,
  Will.

[The Garbone]

Not having been on an AVL I can just comment on the Iron barrel..  I find my bikes capable of any surface streets around these parts.   The 4 speed needs to be RH shift IMO as compared to the 5speed it is just awful as a LH shift with all those linkages.   Also the gap between 3 and 4 on the 4speed is annoying but it does add to the old school charm in a way.

I think it depends on what your looking for..  When you park the bike and walk away will you look at an AVL and think "I could have had an old school iron, just like the ones 50 years ago."   or will you walk away from your iron an look back and think," I could have had the same bike but a little more reliable with that AVL engine."  

[ace]

Thanks one and all for the valuable replies and sorry for apparently "jacking your id"ace cafe" I setup "acecycleworks" on ebay a few years ago and it was just a natural when I registered.
Deep down I am a traditionalist and being as an RE is a decision of the heart and not the head (specs). I really lean toward the looks and heritage of the iron.perhaps an iron 5speed...
I'll just get my black wish-book out and flip through again...




( suck- squeeze- bang- blow)... lol

[UncleErnie]

Ity's not like the iron barel is neanderthal and the AVL is space-age.   Visually, they're almost identical.  The iron barrrel does sound better, though.
I have rear-sets on my AVL, but have zero problems with shifting, or the linkage.  My only real complaint is the E-start is useless.  Put in a new sprag and that one went out too soon, too.  So- I kick-stat now.  When I'm really tired, I have to use the center-stand, but otherwise no big deal.
From everything I've read here, the AVL is the way to go.  Just enough improvements to make it a little better choice.   You can still "enjoy" all the maintenance you can eat.

[Blue Ridge Wheeltor]

Ity's not like the iron barel is neanderthal and the AVL is space-age.   Visually, they're almost identical.  The iron barrrel does sound better, though.
I have rear-sets on my AVL, but have zero problems with shifting, or the linkage.  My only real complaint is the E-start is useless.  Put in a new sprag and that one went out too soon, too.  So- I kick-stat now.  When I'm really tired, I have to use the center-stand, but otherwise no big deal.
From everything I've read here, the AVL is the way to go.  Just enough improvements to make it a little better choice.   You can still "enjoy" all the maintenance you can eat.

I don't know about that. The AVL motor looks like it came off an air compressor, and i heard the aftermarket tanks dent real easy.

[PaulF]

Ace, (Cafe), what kind of AVL con rod bearing failures have there been? Many? Catastrophic? What were conditions when they failed? Can you elaborate?

[ace.cafe]

Ace, (Cafe), what kind of AVL con rod bearing failures have there been? Many? Catastrophic? What were conditions when they failed? Can you elaborate?

Hi Paul,
I haven't seen them myself.
I just read forums where people that have the bikes report what's happened to them.
I've read mostly reports about this from the  UK and Australia.

Apparently, according the the reports that I've read, there is no bearing race in the con-rod, and the rollers run directly in the steel rod. The steel rod is not as hard as a bearing race, so they don't last as long as a bearing race would last, and  so longevity is not as long as it could be.

There is already a con-rod kit available from the main UK supplier for Royal Enfield parts, which provides a con-rod and bearing race pressed in, which is designed to overcome this issue.
The item description reads as follows:
"ELECTRA BIGEND AND CONROD
There have been a number of problems with the standard Electra (X) big end bearing failing. This is because the bearing runs directly in the conrod. We have taken a standard new conrod and machined it to accept an English made bearing which runs in a hardened sleeve pressed into the conrod'

The item is currently "Temporarily Unavailable", and no price listed at present.
 

I think that about sums it up.
However, the floating bush big-end bearing in the iron-barrel Bullet doesn't have the most sterling reputation in the world either, so it's safe to say that there are some design and execution issues in both engine's bottom ends.
In fact, a general statement could be made that all the bearings in the OEM Bullets and AVLs could be better than they are, including main bearings, big-end bearings, and also other bearings in the other parts of the bike.
And all can be improved with aftermarket parts.

[ace]

Well the quest continues, spent today with my check book zippered up in an inside jacket pocket and rode the wheels off everything in the showroom.(40degrees be damned. I tried adjusting the 2003 4speed shift lever down a spline to get more upward travel from my boot, slightly better but came to the conclusion we still weren't gonna get along.

 That left the 5speeds. specifically the2009 miltary avl and a 2008 red deluxe iron barrel, I 've been ooogling the red deluxe since it arrived a couple a years ago, I found the AVL  slightly quicker and nice and smooth,the iron barrel really wasn't much behind.. ( I cut my teeth on xl500's so Ii don't even notice any vibration from either).

Tough decision :"one train of thought: " it's a second bike so if I'm gonna go "traditional" why go halfway and grab the AVL when they are  so close in feel? especially when i think "it" (the AVL cylinder head; looksjust plain  awful.) I really love the polished timing covers that are haplessly sprayed  OD green on the mil.

I was leaning toward the mil when we left at 4:30but wanted a cooling off period before pulling the trigger..

Hell its 1130p.m. and I'm still waffling back and forth like Oprah shopping for  new friggin' shoes.



Iron bore:
l ike the idea I can throw a set of points a coil and a bit of wire in the tool pouch and rebuild the ignition. if needed halfway to Tierra Delfuego.

[1Blackwolf1]

  Did the same thing with the 2007 Military they had took about a year then one Monday just did it.  That's the best part of the irons.  Parts are readily available and if you buy a distributor plate and mount the points/condensor to it can change it out in 10 minutes at roadside and away you go.

  My choice that day was the '07 military and an '06 Electra in red.  Wifey went back about three weeks later and bought that for herself.  But either one are good choices.

   If he gets a G5 military in battle green that would be my only other choice for the future.

[Ice]

ace, I have an Iron barrel 5 speed military and love it dearly but there is a AVL in my future. If you can get both do it 

 I do have to warn you though, these Bullets can be quick   something on the order of 3.2 sec. from zero to obsession  .

 They can be down right maddening too,, until you get any and all faults sorted out.

[hocko]

  Did the same thing with the 2007 Military they had took about a year then one Monday just did it.  That's the best part of the irons.  Parts are readily available and if you buy a distributor plate and mount the points/condensor to it can change it out in 10 minutes at roadside and away you go.

  My choice that day was the '07 military and an '06 Electra in red.  Wifey went back about three weeks later and bought that for herself.  But either one are good choices.

   If he gets a G5 military in battle green that would be my only other choice for the future.

They are just now available her in oz

[UncleErnie]

Seems like everyone likes what they have.  Just throw a dart.