[Bug_Catcher]

So this deserves a whole new topic. 

I got geared up to go for a ride today, tried to kick my bike over and it caught on fire... oh dear.  I had to bust out the fire extinguisher to put it out.  Now I'm trying to figure out what caused it.  My first thought is there is a major gas leak somewhere.  I noticed a little drop in gas from who knows where when I turned the petcock switch on.  Didn't think about it as she is known to drip occasionally and tried to start it up.  I saw the flame from behind the air filter box.  After I put it out I pulled the box off to see if it was full of gas or whatever.  There was a bit that dripped from the manifold but nothing major.  Inside the air filter is not dirty or covered in gasoline.  the area that is connected to the hose that runs out the back is covered on the inside with yellow gunk.  I figured it was just the fire extinguisher crap but I only sprayed that a split second on the outside.  I don't know how that much would've gotten in on the opposite side with a hose still attached covering the hose.  So I am suspect that the gunk was there before this happened but I could be wrong.

I had pulled the air box off less than a week ago just to check the filter and it was very clean.

what should I dooo? 

[Bug_Catcher]

here is a pic of the gunk.  Just looks like extinguisher powder doesn't it?  That's what I thought, but how did it get on the inside, and why so much... the other side isn't as yellow but is a thick almost powdery mixture of something.  It could just have been a gas puke from my carburetor that got mixed with the powder.  Forgive me I don't know the texture of the stuff, this is only the second fire extinguisher incident I've had in my life so far. 

My poor pony.... 

[Blltrdr]

The yellow gunk may be caused by your breather catch can being full. Firebreathing Bullet? Possible timing issue or maybe float valve stuck a bit. Was the gas coming out of your overflow lines on your carb or from your fuel line? Lucky you had an extinguisher handy!

[ace.cafe]

Did the bike kick back just before the fire?

[REpozer]

Sorry to hear it.  Wash off all the fire extinguisher powder. It is corrosive.

[Bug_Catcher]

Wonder if this tube is the culprit, it is burnt and melted closed now, wonder if it was stopped up before.  There wasn't any kick back, everything felt as it normally does, just heard a puff and saw the flame after a full kick.

[mrunderhill1975a]

I agree with Blltr and Ace. Find the source of the fuel drip, petcock, fuel line , carb overflow?   Did the bike kick back just before the fire?

The goop in the filter is classic full oil catch can,....the excess oil finds its way to the filter. Empty the oil catch can. Get a new filter. Report back here with the answers to the questions above.

That tube is an overflow tube from the carb.  Is there fuel dripping from the carb?

[ace.cafe]

Ok, starting from the basics.

Gas got onto something from somewhere.
Something ignited it.

Where did the gas get onto, where the fire started?
What ignited it?

It didn't just "catch on fire".
Things happened to precipitate this.
Was the fire inside the airbox?

The only time I've ever seen a cold Bullet catch fire is when the engine kicks back thru the carb,

[single]

I am guessing this was a cold start,so some kind of spark set off the blaze,seems like.You must not have any fuel leaks whatsoever.You can live with oil leaks.But something set off the gas,and you need to know what that was.If you can reconstruct the xact situation.....if you saw where the fire first appeared,should be an area more burnt than the rest and so on like that until you can maybe isolate the beginning of the blaze.Was there fire arround the coil or the wires pertaining to it?Good for you in putting it out so quickly.Easy to loose it where fire is concerned.

[Bug_Catcher]

Well I'm not real interesting in re-creating the event.    It was a cold start, hadn't run her in a couple days.

I just cleaned everything up right now and looked over it all.  Where ever that gas leaked from I can't find it.  It's coming from underneath, which is pretty oily but no gas.. just oil that I can see. Both of those tubes are completely burnt up and melted pretty bad so I assume the fire started there.  By the looks of it, it was outside the airbox, behind it and not inside as the inside isn't burnt and filter is undamaged.  Nothing close to any electrical wires or coils, no damage there which is good. 

Normally I'd be more inclined to just clean things out, put it back together and try to start it again to see what happens but with it starting fires I'm a bit more apprehensive!    A friend is coming over tomorrow to look at it.  He has a lift I can use to get under it too.  Losing light today so it will just have to wait!

[Bug_Catcher]

One more oddball question.  I'm going to remove the oil catch can.  Before I do that I should figure out how before I make a mess.  I removed the battery casing and I'm looking at it.  Seems to have a hose coming the bottom that I'll need to pull off.  Is oil going to come pouring out when I do that?  Anything else I need to do before I pull it?  Trying to not make a bigger mess on the bike than I have already! 

[mrunderhill1975a]

My oil catch can has a bolt on the bottom, and oil will come out if it is full..  You should be able to "catch" the draining oil  in a small tin of some sort (tuna can).

But, as Ace suggests, you still need to find the source of the fuel leak.  If it is not leaking now, it could have originated from a stuck open carb float valve,. Which caused the carb to overflow.

[ace.cafe]

Normally if the float needle leaks and allows overflow, the gas comes out of the little brass tube on the bottom/front area of the carb, near the front of the float bowl.
However, if one of those clear tubes was on that overflow outlet, then it could have come out the end of that clear tube, back behind the air filter housing somewhere.
That clear overflow tube is supposed to be positioned so that if any gas comes out of it, it goes right down to the ground, and not onto the bike.

There's not much electrical around that back area there,but if that clear tube was way up by the coil, it might have got a spark off the coil wires somehow.

I think you need to see where the gas comes from, and stop that gas leak from happening. That's the first thing.

[Ice]

Hey there B.C.

 Yup the crud in your air filer looks like the famous "mayo" to me.
There are bunches of threads on catch cans, breather mods and duck bills.

 Heres a link to a one on catch cans http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,676.0.html

[baird4444]

   

    Hey BC-
        you are a lucky gal to have gotten away with such little damage. If gas was
coming out one of the tubes IT could mean that the float is set to high
or was stuck....   find out why.
to do away with the sludge can is an easy one. Follow the tips in
http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,676.0.html
inside the little collector you will find a small duckbill that you can put on
the end of your hose with a simple hose barb. To drip on the chain is
ok but you will get tired of cleaning the back wheel.
                  - Mike

[Chasfield]

My bike had a mysterious minor fuel leak, which turned out to be a tiny split in the pipe where it pushed onto the carb.

For a fire to be ignited by a regular Bullet blow back you would expect the fuel build up to be most likely on the clean air, engine side of the filter.

External loose fuel wold more likely be having a stray ignition spark set it off.

[UncleErnie]

My guess is a spurned lover is sending a message.
Probably too late to check for fingerprints...

[Bug_Catcher]

My guess is a spurned lover is sending a message.
Probably too late to check for fingerprints...

Maybe it was my ex-mechanic.  He didn't take the news well that I had found somebody else.  Though I think burning my bike up is a bit too far!

So my mechanic is a no show so far!  I know he's busy so I won't bug him for the house call, I'll just have to wait.  Meanwhile my impatience and urge to take things apart is growing.  I am beginning to think that the "mayo" problem I'm having and the fire are not related.  I should have paid better attention to where those two hoses were going before I yanked on them. 

 

Normally if the float needle leaks and allows overflow, the gas comes out of the little brass tube on the bottom/front area of the carb, near the front of the float bowl.
However, if one of those clear tubes was on that overflow outlet, then it could have come out the end of that clear tube, back behind the air filter housing somewhere.
That clear overflow tube is supposed to be positioned so that if any gas comes out of it, it goes right down to the ground, and not onto the bike.

There's not much electrical around that back area there,but if that clear tube was way up by the coil, it might have got a spark off the coil wires somehow.

I think you need to see where the gas comes from, and stop that gas leak from happening. That's the first thing.

Carb was dry and clean on the outside.  If I'm looking at the right one, that hose was pointed UP and not down, which may have been close enough to those wires to spark?  But should those wires even be causing a spark?  What is the other hose for?  Same thing?  Should I just point those downward, put it all back together and try again?  Because that was my only fire hydrant.    Still can't find where that drop of gasoline came from, it was too far forward to be from the air filter box or that hose.  No idea!  But it hasn't dripped again.

You guys talk about floaters and such as if I know what that is or where it is.  Even if I found it, how would I know that it is too high/stuck/or otherwise dysfunctional?     My handy dandy service manual has me pointed at the bottom of my carb.... something about tickling it and tuna cans.  I think I can do it! 

My concern is that it was running and starting quite well a couple days ago.  It's the fire that has me nervous.  Seems like if I was having floater issues wouldn't I have heard some sputtering and fighting?  Or you think these two are related somehow? (probably vomited gas overflow back via that little hose? as ACE has mentioned)

[cyrusb]

Have you produced a tray of brownies yet?  Brownies generously applied to the speaking end of your mechanic usually does the trick.

[ace.cafe]

The two clear hoses that attach to the carb are a vent and an overflow drain.
The one that attaches to the side of the carb body is the vent. This must not be plugged, and is to remain open to the atmosphere for air venting into the carb.
The other one attaches to a little brass tube under the bottom/front of the carb, and it is  an overflow drain, in case your float system overflows.
So both tubes never get plugged with anything, and they are just left open on the far ends. You route the drain hose to where it would drain harmlessly to the ground, and not get on the bike or the exhaust system, if it were to need to let some gas out.
The vent hose can go anywhere that's out of the way.
No kinks in it.

As for the drain hose pointing UP, that could have let some gas get on the coil, depending on where that hose end was.
The coil has a high-tension electrical wire on it, and if it gets wet, it will spark to ground, and that could definitely light some gas on fire. Or if it gets on any wire that has a bad ground, it could spark when you turn on the key, and if gas is there, it will ignite.
I've seen Jaguar fuel pumps cause a problem like that.

Regarding the "floaters" , there is a little float and a valve in the carb float bowl, that acts just like the float and valve in a toilet tank. As fuel comes in, the bowl fills and raises the float. When the float gets high enough, it pushes a little valve closed, and the fuel shuts off. If this is not set right, or if a little dirt gets stuck in the valve, it doesn't shut off the fuel, and you get overflow. This can happen at any time. If a little piece of grit gets in there, you get an overflow.
This is why it's good to have a little fuel filter in the fuel line from the gas tank.

I don't know for certain that's what happened to your bike, but it might be what happened. It's one of the prime candidates.

[t120rbullet]

Have you produced a tray of brownies yet?  Brownies generously applied to the speaking end of your mechanic usually does the trick.

Chocolate chip cookies are what get my ratchets twirling.
CJ

[scoTTy]

iis the tank cracked at the hold down tab welds from over tightening

[Bug_Catcher]

Have you produced a tray of brownies yet?  Brownies generously applied to the speaking end of your mechanic usually does the trick.

So that's why my mechanic was a no show.  I knew I had forgotten something.  I sat around my house waiting by the phone all day Monday with no word!  I was like a sad girl after a first date.

While waiting I started taking things apart....

Below is a pic of what she puked out all over me (tuna can my arse!) when I pulled on her oil catch can.  It was black and mucky and full of chunks.  I had no idea she was so constipated... poor baby.  I bet that feels better.

Found and examined the float from the bottom of the carb, as well as pulled the carb off to unscrew the top and look for any leaks.  A bit of mostly clean gas poured when I pulled the bottom, other than that it is very clean.  Float seemed to be responding well so I just put it back together.

I am going to assume it was a 'struck by lightning' kind of incident where gas coming from the tube on the carburetor must have gotten sparked by those coils somehow.  I turned the petcock on and kicked her through with the ignition off and saw no signs of that gas drip I saw earlier.  There were no odd sparks and nothing came out of that tube after I unclogged it.  Maybe it was just some spilled gas that had gotten on the tank or something that dripped off.

iis the tank cracked at the hold down tab welds from over tightening

Thanks for the advice, checked around the tank for any cracks or anything unusual but everything looks pretty sound.  Tank isn't rusty inside though I see quite a few "floaties".  Not sure if that is something I should worry about or if it's normal.

Bah... I can't figure it out.  I'm going to just put the filter back on and try to start again.  After I go buy another fire extinguisher today after work. 

[ace.cafe]

Ok, make sure when you put the new clear hoses back on the carb, that they are routed like I said, so if you have an overflow occurrence, the fuel goes harmlessly to the ground.

Check all around the area where the fire was, to be sure that the insulation wasn't burnt or melted off any wires
Check all the wire connections around that area to be sure that they are connected tightly.

Go to an auto parts store, or a lawn mower store, and buy a small fuel filter that is small enough to put into your fuel line from the gas tank.
That will keep any "floaties"(dirt or rust specks) from getting into the carburetor, and will help ensure that the float valve doesn't get stuck open from dirt.
You may have your mechanic install this into the fuel line, if you want. It's a good idea to have one.

Next time  you start up the bike, open the petcock and give it about 30 seconds to fill the empty float bowl before you try starting it up.

[1Blackwolf1]

  And if nothing else you can always blame Lucas Prince of Darkness for a momentary glitch in the system causing a major snafu. 

  But seriously if you follow the ideas given so far you should be alright.  As far as the vent lines from the carb I zip tied mine to the frame and routed them towards the ground so lost fuel would go anywhere except near the coil. 

  May want to follow the elctrical harness from the distributor toward the coil also and wrap electrical tape around the bullet connection you find.  Mine had metal showing after I crimped it tighter when mine popped apart.  Couple wraps of good electrical tape and it's good and fool proof now. 

  Will.

[Ice]

Did I ever tell you about my fuel l leaks ?

 I wasn't the needle and seat nor the float level. I had checked those several times.

 Turns out there was a pin hole casting void about half way up the side of float bow.
  My theory is that fuel varnish sealed the hole (that is, until I cleaned the carby ).

 The fix was to lightly sand the float bowl and "paint" on a layer of J-B Weld.
twenty four hours later I reassembled and installed the Carby.

 That's when I found the second void higher up, just below the normal fuel level  .
This Time I "painted it inside and out right up to the top. Problem solved.

Moral of the story ,,,,Sometimes its the unexpected things.

[Blltrdr]

If you do install the filter like Ace suggests (great suggestion) make sure the arrow on the filter points with the gas flow.

[bullethead63]

OOOOOOOOOOOhhhhhh...I just LOVE a good mystery! This is thrilling...do keep us posted!

[Lahti35]

  And if nothing else you can always blame Lucas Prince of Darkness for a momentary glitch in the system causing a major snafu. 

  I'm always looking for someone/where/thing to shift blame to, sounds like a winner!

[cyrusb]

Hey , I just found this on Blasco's  bullet blog and for some reason, thought of this thread........

[Bug_Catcher]

Hey , I just found this on Blasco's  bullet blog and for some reason, thought of this thread........

lol. That is the look on my face while I looked for damage after the fire.

So, that little poorly placed tube was the source of the fire.  I found the wire that seemed to start the spark, but it seems to have just been extreme bad luck for the most part.  The plastic that attached some wires was a bit black but no damage.  When I think about it I was REALLY lucky.  If that would have happened anywhere but in that garage at that moment my bike could very well have been toast.  Why I didn't panic and instead just immediately jumped on a near fire extinguisher I will never know! Someone was was putting sense in my brain.

I was wondering how common fires are on starting bikes like this.  Found this video.... I was laughing and crying at that poor dude all at the same time.  It was cool how they pulled that tank off in a few seconds after the flame got out of control.  That carb just seemed to fall right off though!  As designed?!  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqI-XYu5dKw

Tempting to strap a mini hydrant to my bike, god forbid that had happened at a gas station after I just filled up or something.  I could have taken my pony, myself, and possibly a gas station out.  

[1Blackwolf1]

  I guess you would probably be the second..maybe third bike fire I've heard of on a street bike not in a competition environment.  Raced hill climbers for a couple years and only saw one.  Drag bikes have them occasionally.  Think I've seen two crispy critters for sale as rebuilders in maybe 15 years.

  A fire extinguisher wouldn't exactly be a bad idea to carry..might have to get inventive for a mount location.  If you will feel safer with one handy I say go for it. 

  Will.

[Darth Sid]

Fix a mount for the extinguisher under the front seat. Remove the front mount of the seat, change the rear mounts to hinges. The seat should lift like a lid. You might need a lock instead of the front mount of the seat to keep it from flipping up over a bump on the road. Of course, the lock should be such that it releases quickly and easily in case of emergency.
Don't know if my idea is of any use but thought I'd share it anyway.