Author Topic: Newbie questions  (Read 4581 times)

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DILLIGAF

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on: January 26, 2010, 10:53:11 pm
Hey guys, great forum!  First off, I dont own an Enfield yet.  I have been shopping around since my wife decided she was going to buy a BMW F800GS for herself. 

There is a really nice 2000 Military for sale locally at a great price but I have a few concerns.  From my reading, it looks like the early bikes came with a 4 speed gearbox.  How does that effect the overall performance of the bike.  Are the gears just taller than a 5 speed?  The top speed of 70mph concerns me a bit also.  I really love riding to work but have a long highway ride where I need to maintain a higher speed just to keep up with traffic and not get killed.  Are these bikes capable of being modified to the point where they can ride at 80mph safely, not at full throttle?  I'm a bit of a motorhead also so I know I would be adding some bits to the engine in a short amount of time and there are quite a few performance items but i just dont know how much you can squeeze out of an iron, air headed 500.

I appreciate any honest opinions you folks can give me.  Although Id really love to own an Enfield since it reminds me so much of the Norton Big Four my grandfather used to give us rides on as kids, I dont want something thats going to limit my riding to around town. 

Thanks!
-james


Vince

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Reply #1 on: January 26, 2010, 11:14:09 pm
     These are the standard questions. The short answer is that you really need another bike. They were never designed for what you want. You are embarking upon a frustrating exercise in futility. Go through this forum for a while to try to grasp what these bikes really are.


rick505

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Reply #2 on: January 26, 2010, 11:17:15 pm
I suspect you will receive more than one more informed answer but my response is a simple "no".  Let's see, 2000 Military is the old iron engine along with a 4 speed.  No way it will cruise at anything approaching 70 or 80 mph.  Unmodified top speed of 70??  Perhaps downhill with a tail wind.  The easiest way I explain my 2008 AVL classic to folks is "pretend you are cruising the back roads of England."  Stick with a modern bike if you need highway miles consistently.

Rick


baird4444

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Reply #3 on: January 26, 2010, 11:22:10 pm


     what HE said...
these bikes were designed in the 50's when 40 and 50 mph was the speed
to go. There have been improvements along the way but a basic cruise
speed of 60 is about it without a lot more $$ and chasing the weakest link.
if you need a highway cruiser, that's what you need to buy,
not an Enfield.
           imo - Mike
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 but tomorrow I shall be sober and you will still be ugly'
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1Blackwolf1

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Reply #4 on: January 26, 2010, 11:37:21 pm
  The newer Triumphs are more suited to do what you want and have the classic look of their predecessors.  And you can a decent used one fairly cheap.
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ace.cafe

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Reply #5 on: January 26, 2010, 11:43:20 pm
They are "capable" to be modified  to do over 100mph top speed.

Doing 80mph for long terms on a superhighway is not really something I'd recommend doing, even on a modified Bullet. I know it's been done, but it's tough on the motor. And unless you really built it right, it will kill the motor.
Even as one of the resident "speed nuts" and a purveyor of Bullet speed parts, I recommend using the speed in bursts when you desire it, and not because you have to keep up with high speed traffic.

If you want to keep up with speeders on the superhighway, then get a different bike.

I  can make it go fast enough to easily do those speeds and more, but I don't recommend sitting on those speeds for long terms. This is an antique design bike. Not a modern bike.
It can race with over 100mph top speed, but it doesn't sit on that speed for any length of time. Speeds vary, and sometimes it's only doing 40mph in the corners.
Droning along on the superhighway at 80mph just isn't a prudent idea to do on a any Bullet, and a stock Bullet would die a quick death trying to do it.

What I do with my Bullet is ride it briskly on the fun twisty roads all day.
When I need to go to another state on the interstate highway, I take my nice comfy air-conditioned pickup truck.
If I needed to go a long distance on my Bullet, I'd take State Highways with a 55mph limit, and allow myself longer time to reach my destination. That works fine.
Trying to make a Bullet fit the mold of a modern bike, and pushing it beyond it's limits trying to do that, is not going to work out.

Get a matching BMW like your wife has, or maybe a modern Triumph Bonneville, and then it will be just fine.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2010, 11:59:42 pm by ace.cafe »
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GreenForce82

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Reply #6 on: January 27, 2010, 12:54:06 am
If you really want the style of the Enfield military, and you are "well off" financially, I believe some people have mentioned that some engine swaps are available.   But that would take alot away from the look. I feel that the Big Single is an integral part of the bikes look, sound, and feel...

There are defiantly options though for those well off enough to embark on that treacherous journey of intense customization.

Good Luck!
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cyrusb

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Reply #7 on: January 27, 2010, 01:26:03 am
Use your wifes bike for work.
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Ice

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Reply #8 on: January 27, 2010, 04:49:55 am
Welcome abord DILLIGAF.
 
 To safely cruise at 80MPH for extended periods you will need a bigger bike or lots of money.
An Iron barrel can be built for 80 but it will cost you dearly.
The iron barrel engine is happy at 50-55 MPH. I hear that the AVL is happy at 55-65 MPH
The C5 with the new EFI Unit Construction engine may be a compromise for you.
http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/models/classic-c5.html 
Ask the UCE powered C5 owners for feedback on freeway usage.
No matter where you go, there, you are.


500KsGerry

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Reply #9 on: January 27, 2010, 05:16:01 am
Check out a W650,  good looking, fast and reliable. May be the styling your interested in.
Modified 2001 Royal Enfield bullet 500


birdmove

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Reply #10 on: January 28, 2010, 04:41:44 am
  Heed the words above. You do not want a Bullet.I keep my 2007 to 50 mph and that means back roads. It will never see a freeway.

    Some guys buy these bikes because they look so great, and then proceed to ride them like they are a Suzuki or Honda, and blow up the engines. Next thing they are bad mouthing the Enfields and saying what a POS they are because they didn't do a little research. No offense, but that kind of press we can do without. These bikes are made for country back roads at 40-50 mph where you can ride in a leisurly manner and enjoy the ride and the countryside.

    I have two other motorcycles. If I need to get somewhere in a hurry on a freeway, I'll take my HD XL883.

    It's good that you came here to research these bikes. People that understand them tend to love them. People that think they can ride them on the freeway at 80 mph are going to be real unhappy. A test ride would be advised also.

   Take care, and good luck in your choice.


    Jon in Puyallup, Wa.
Jon in Keaau, Hawaii


bullethead63

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Reply #11 on: January 28, 2010, 05:50:26 am
Welcome to the forum,DILLIGAF...by all means,buy that Military model,at a great price,and use it to putt around town,run down to the store,give the kids a ride like your Grand Dad did...but don't even THINK about using it on the Highway...my 4-speed,2002 Iron Barrel Classic is happiest at 35-45 MPH...it  WILL do 60...for a few minutes,if it has to...but it really shines on the twisty-turny back roads,like ACE said...you could always buy the Military model,pull the engine and transmission,sell it on eBay,then use the proceeds to put a 700cc RE Interceptor engine and tranny in it...by all accounts,it's pretty straight forward...and probably prohibitively expensive...BUT...you'd have the only known Military Interceptor...damn...now you've got me thinking about doing it...and,you could buy a Chiang Jiang 750...my buddy down the street has one painted up like a WW2 SS/Wehrmacht Military bike,Panzer Grey,looks just like something from an Indiana Jones movie...they're apparently Chinese copies of a late '30's BMW...he loves it...but it,too is a design from a by-gone era,and would probably blow up if treated like a modern bike...let us know what you decide,and Happy Motoring!
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birdmove

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Reply #12 on: January 28, 2010, 11:21:19 pm


    There has been a couple of guys that put Yamaha XS650 vertical twin engines into the RE Bullet frames. Those were pretty darn good solid motors. They liked to wear out generator brushes, but those are available, and swingarm bushings too.

   jon
Jon in Keaau, Hawaii


DILLIGAF

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Reply #13 on: January 31, 2010, 01:50:16 pm
Thanks for all the great and honest answers guys.  I regretfully had to pass on the Enfield due to all the answers above.  If I had the money, I would have jumped on that deal without a question, but I need it for a down payment toward something more suited to my riding conditions.  I had considered buying a more modern retro bike like the Triumph but there all built like sport bikes with a cafe racer look and after crashing a sport bike many years ago, my mind will not let me get back on one.  I'm also a bit of a purist and refuse to put an engine that a vehicle wasnt built with in there, just to suit myself.  I'm a firm believer that you can always build a motor to your specifications, with enough time and money of course!  I currently have a garage full of vintage scooters that dont get used as often as they should because there use is limited.  I'd hate to add another bike to that collection.  I can get on my modern scoot and go anywhere and thats what i'm looking for in a bike.  Maybe down the road I will have some spare cash and can find another great deal on one of these wonderful Enfields and be part of your great forum here!
Thanks again guys and I will hopefully see you on the road one day!
-james


birdmove

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Reply #14 on: January 31, 2010, 04:46:57 pm
  What about a Triumph Bonneville? The standard model (not the cafe style Thruxton model) is a fine motorcycle. Not real expensive, and it's been around for quite a while now so used ones are plentiful.

   Jon
Jon in Keaau, Hawaii


GreatNorthRider

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Reply #15 on: January 31, 2010, 05:30:09 pm
..my 4-speed,2002 Iron Barrel Classic is happiest at 35-45 MPH...it  WILL do 60...for a few minutes,if it has to

Help me understand something... How can a 125cc scooter go 45 all day long with bursts to 55-60 yet an Enfield with 375 more cc's has trouble? What gives here?
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ace.cafe

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Reply #16 on: January 31, 2010, 05:59:26 pm
Help me understand something... How can a 125cc scooter go 45 all day long with bursts to 55-60 yet an Enfield with 375 more cc's has trouble? What gives here?


Okay, first of all, a 125cc scooter is a two-stroke engine, which means that it's more equivalent to a 250cc four-stroke. A two-stroke engine has no valves or issues with oiling. It's all lubed by the fuel system, so there's never any oil overheating problems, or oil starvation problems, or oil pressure problems. And since there's basically nothing outside the cylinder, it's all cooling fins. And a two stroke has a very efficient and low-friction type of design,which doesn't generate alot of excess heat from inefficiencies..
Secondly, an Enfield has no trouble at all with 45 all day long and bursts to 55-60mph.
In fact,it has no trouble with 55-60 all day long, with bursts to 75-80mph.
I do it all the time.

The issues with the Enfield arise when you take a stock Enfield and try to go on the highway for several hours at 65mph+. Especially if it's a hot day.
The stock Enfield engine has a poor level of efficiency, produces alot of unnecessary heat that it has trouble shedding, and it heat-soaks the castings.
Much of the oiling is done by simple "slinging" and "splashing", and it isn't an efficient oiler, and it doesn't flow much oil to begin with.

It's an almost 60 year old design, which was originally a 350, and it was punched-out to a 500,  so the design was really intended to cool a 350, not a 500.
And in those days, 55mph was the normal highway speed limit all over the country anyway.

If you want to go faster on a Bullet, it's very possible, but many don't want to spend what it costs to modify it to do that.
So, they accept what's available from the stock design, and ride within those limits.

The Bullet in stock form is handy for all but the superhighway types of use.
It can ride fine all day on roads with 55mph limit. And it has enough power to pass at that speed, and can burst up to over 70mph with no problem, although it's not real fast at doing that.
It's not the actual speed that can present the problems. It's the constant riding  at the higher speeds that causes the overheating to show up.
It's an antique that was designed to do what the speeds were, when the design was originated a long time ago.

You don't have to ride like a granny on a Bullet.
You can ride it with quite a bit of spirit, and it's a sporty ride on the twisty roads,and you can push it to 75mph or more on some straights when you want to.
Just don't go on the interstate with a stock Bullet and expect it to maintain a constant 65-70 for hours on there, because it won't do it without overheating. It needs to have the throttle varied down to lower speeds periodically, to let it cool off some.
On the twisty back roads, where you are accelerating and decelerating in turns, and having alot of varying throttle activity, you can do pretty much whatever you want with it.




« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 06:30:02 pm by ace.cafe »
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Ice

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Reply #17 on: January 31, 2010, 06:48:48 pm
 
IMHO These are not interstate touring machines.

 Most of us are talking about our older Iron Barrel engine powered Bullets in specifics and short wheel base bikes in general. 



 For high speed and freeway cruising a Gold Wing or Road Glide would be a better choice.
A Throne on wheels.

 For regular freeway commutes and the occasional weekend get away,, look to the 750 and up class of engines.
 Not as comfy as a road couch on the long haul but eminently do-able.

 Around the county, short jaunts on lightly trafficked highways, twisty turns , the occasional forest service road ?
 That's the realm of the 650 and under group of bikes. Compact and nimble.

REgards ,
Ice
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bullethead63

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Reply #18 on: January 31, 2010, 11:16:12 pm
Help me understand something... How can a 125cc scooter go 45 all day long with bursts to 55-60 yet an Enfield with 375 more cc's has trouble? What gives here?

OK...since he's quoting me,I'll weigh in on this one...I've only got 1166 miles on the clock,and after a few hundred more,I'm sure that I'll be able to push her a bit harder...like I said,around town,35-45 MPH is quite smooth...I've had her up to nearly 70 MPH on a straightaway,for just a minute,but I wouldn't hold her to 60+ for any length of time,out of respect for the antiquated design,and the limitations of the metallurgy...ALSO...it's pretty cold outside right now,which really helps to cool the mill...I don't think that I'd push her that hard in the Summer,on a 90 degree day...I bought her to putt around the 'hood,not to ride to Sturgis and back...if I wanted a highway bike,I'd have bought a BMW...but I'm in love with this little Bullet...and I'm beginning to think that this IS a cult...
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birdmove

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Reply #19 on: February 01, 2010, 01:30:12 am


   I did much of my break in mileage on my 2007 iron barrel in the cold of winter, which helps aid in cooling, and tends to keep the rides shorter  too.

    My wife has a SYM HD200 scooter. It's a four stroke with a very potent engine. It can go on a freeway. But it's a very modern water cooled engine, and I believe it has four valves. It;s made to rev.No pushrods. Well made modern piston, crankshaft, and rod. Not that we are planning to run it a bunch on the freeways, but it would do it.

    Compare the Ninja/Vulcan 500 cc engine to the iron barrel Enfield. The two Kawasakis use the same basic engine, with the Vulcan version, I believe, using different cams, and with less high rpm power than the Ninja, but more mid range. The Kawa engine is a DOHC water cooled four valve per cylinder vertical twin with a six speed trans. I rode the 500 Ninja for a few years, and it is a sweet running 500cc. Very fast for it's size, easily will cruise at 50-60-70-75 all day long, and I know of some running well over 80,000 miles. Totally different animal then my iron Bullet. So why the hell did I buy my Enfield when the Ninja/Vulcan 500 is superior on paper in every measureable way? First, because I fell in love with the looks of the Enfield, and had already ridden many thumpers over the years. Also I had studied up on the Enfields and knew the limitations going in.Then, after a test ride at Vince's. I decided on the spot that I still wanted one and could abide by those limitations.

   jon
Jon in Keaau, Hawaii


GreatNorthRider

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Reply #20 on: February 01, 2010, 03:21:45 pm
Thanks for the answers, guys! This is a great forum with many of you chiming in with great info. Here is where I am coming from....

As you can see from my signature, I have lots of bikes that will blast down the road as fast as I ever want to go. But lately I have been thinking on how our "High Tech" life has really complicated things. For instance, If my Buell or Guzzi were to quite by the side of the road, I would not be able to figure anything out without some very high tech tools, or atleast a VOM. TPS, CPU, ECT...You get the idea.

So I have been thinking on how much I like the low tech approach. Air, fuel, spark and your there. Not to much to go wrong with the Iron Enfield that I could not figure out in the field. This has become very appealing to me.

So it looks like the 2007 and older "iron" bikes would fit my bill. Anything that gets me down the road around 55 is just fine with me. (I hate the interstate anyway!)
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bullethead63

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Reply #21 on: February 01, 2010, 04:36:45 pm
Sounds like a used,well maintained and properly broken in Iron Barrel Bullet is just the ticket...the whole low-tech approach is why I bought mine,instead of a new fuel injected,UCE,AVL,high tech Bullet...they're pretty,and I'm sure that they're nice...but I'll be sticking with "the motorcycle that they forgot to quit making" for now...keep us posted on what you get...Craigslist and eBay are always covered up with low miles,one owner,IB Bullets for $2500-$3500,and sometimes less...
1959 Royal Enfield/Indian Chief 700~(RED)~1999 Bullet Deluxe 500 KS~(BLUE)~2000  Bullet Classic 500 KS~(WHITE)~2002 Bullet Classic 500 ES~(GREEN)~1973 Triumph Tiger 750~(BLUE & WHITE)~Ride-Wrench-Repeat~your results may vary~void where prohibited by law~batteries not included~some assembly required~


single

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Reply #22 on: February 01, 2010, 07:25:14 pm
I don't care how fast my Bullet is/isn't.It NEEDS me,and that is what I need.I do not ride my Bullet,we ride together.Occasionally,it wants to go fast and so I humor it,for a little while.


cochi

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Reply #23 on: February 01, 2010, 08:08:17 pm
GreatNorthRider, I also had a bit of trepidation before purchasing the Bullet and also agree with you about all of the hypertech in modern bikes. After giving it a long think, (2 years), I bought a brand new classic in 2003. It's one of the best decisions I have ever made. I've modified her slightly, low restriction exhaust, pancake air filter, re jetted the carb, stronger clutch springs, Boyer Brandson ignition and a Bosch Blue coil. I use her every day during the summer and she has been very dependable. She lives for back roads!!  For the few problems that I've had with her, the guys and gals on the forum are the best, There's nothing that ACE, Vince and some of the other folks cannot help you figure out.  cochi  ;D


Swiny

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Reply #24 on: April 16, 2010, 12:26:16 pm
Hi,
This is another newbie just looking for the best advice on buying Enfield..As i am a student,Can you suggest me the best for me..

Thank you

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UncleErnie

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Reply #25 on: April 16, 2010, 01:26:02 pm
Sounds like a used,well maintained and properly broken in Iron Barrel Bullet is just the ticket...the whole low-tech approach is why I bought mine,instead of a new fuel injected,UCE,AVL[/b],high tech Bullet...they're pretty,and I'm sure that they're nice...but I'll be sticking with "the motorcycle that they forgot to quit making" for now...keep us posted on what you get...Craigslist and eBay are always covered up with low miles,one owner,IB Bullets for $2500-$3500,and sometimes less...

Yeah- I love my high rech Musketball.  Why I can press a button and... oh- there aren't any buttons...   ::)

Similar to BMW in 1970, I think the iron and aluminium bikes have the same tank log as the UCE, but the similarity ends there.  Two totally different bikes. 
Run what ya brung


Ice

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Reply #26 on: April 16, 2010, 01:56:07 pm
Hello Swiny and welcome aboard.

 If your budget allows it get a UCE powered C5 or G5. Modern internals and EFI are hard to beat. They make the most power, achieve the best fuel economy with the lowest emissions. They also come fitted with front disc brake as standard and have an electric starter that works. lowest maintenance of the bunch.

 Next would be the AVL powered machines; electronic ignition, roller bearing crank and all alloy engine mean you can cruise at 55-65 MPH. five speed gear box is standard. Electra models have front disc brake as standard. The E start start system is fragile and has a hit or miss reputation. Use the kick starter.
 A bit more maintenance than the UCE will be required.

 Lastly I would recommend the Iron Barrel ; more maintenance intensive and the iron barrel along with the floating bush con rod limit your engine safe top cruise speed to 45-55 MPH (and keep the revs down).
 The up side is spares and accessories are most plentiful for these machines. Having been in production for a half century,the Iron Barrel powered Bullets are the most common therefore increasing your chances of buying a well used but not yet knackered one for a good price. Later models have the five speed gear box and the same E-start as the AVL machines.
 If you can live with the limitations and are somewhat deft with a spanner you might give it a go.

Hope this helps
« Last Edit: April 16, 2010, 01:58:34 pm by Ice »
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single

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Reply #27 on: April 16, 2010, 07:44:18 pm
You know,I do kinda fault RE for bringing a bike into the States with an engine that will not abide the roads we generally use most.But on the other hand they bring to life the total,undiluted experiance of a bygone era.I can kickstart myself right back to 1950 on any good day.I can also sit and stare at the little beauty when I can't ride,for various reasons.For me,it is all good.By the way,tha Bullet comes from a time when Chevrolet used a dipper and splash oiling system on the 6-cylinder engine that propelled them to the very pinacle of success in sales.Top speed was about 80,recomended cruiseing speed-55mph.Sound familiar?Yeah,I know I have said this before.Well,same era anyway.I am not sure when Chevy came out with the 235 and full pressure,about 1950,tho'.