[jaminjim]

I have 2  Indians one is a 57 I think its a trailblazer it looks to be complete but has put a rod through the case .I think I can save it if I can get parts.the other is I think a 58 and is not complete but engine,tranny and primary seem to be in good shape.I could use it in the 57 but I really want to build a custom bobber out of it.So if anyone knows of parts for the 57 or maybe a custom frame for the 58 let me know thanks.  jaminjim.I am new to this computer stuff but im learning also the 57 has HDT on the left front case and the 58 has HDS in the same location is it a 58? thanks. jaminjim

[chiller184]

Hi jaminjim,

I can not help you with parts, sorry.  I can tell you that HDS and HDT are prefixes to the gear box number.  HDS gearboxes were used in some 57 Trailblazers, 57 Apaches and Super Meteors.  I am not sure about HDT, I don't have any information on a HDT gearbox, HDT correct?

Cheers Charles

[ERC]

Lets see if I can get this right.55-57 used a pushrod type clutch. The 58 and up used a lever type clutch. You would have to use the correct tranny, primary and clutch together to bolt to whatever motor you use. The motors will bolt into any of the frames as far as I know. HDS tranny was used on 1957 Super Meteor, Trailblazer and Apache. The HDT was used on a 1957 500 twin. Thats the extent of my knowledge on them.   ERC

[rotorwrench]

Royal Enfield stamped most engines with the transmission numbers as ERC mentioned previously. They also stamped case match numbers somewhere on the split line of the case assembly. The engine numbers for 1957 & 58 were on the left side case just below the cylinder base. They were stamped around the two hex plugs there. If they are Trailblazers the engine number prefix will begin with the letters SMP or SMPA depending on whether a 57 or 58. the prefix is followed by a 4 digit number. The 57 700cc engine did not have removable cam covers so thats another way you can tell early from late type engines on the exterior.

Conn rods are all the same on the 58 & later 700 and 750cc engines so they are available from Hitchcock's in the UK. You may have to search around for the early type con rod used in 57 & earlier 700cc. They don't have replaceable bearing shells on the bottom end like the later ones. I've seen a lot of cases welded up for cracked bearing webs and broken rod divets. You can also watch the old E-pay. Cases come up for sale now and then. If your not worried about the engine number then you can use any 700cc case as long as you use certain parts assiciated with either the late type case or the early type case. Royal enfield improved the cranckshaft in 1958 so the late type crank won't fit in the early type case.

Hitchcock's is the best source for the old twin parts. He carries a lot of used parts too so you might send them an e-mail of your needs and see what happens. They send their orders out promptly and generally the stuff gets to your door nearly as fast as if you had ordered it from a USA source.

[jaminjim]

I took some pics of the 2 indians so you guys can see and maybe ID the bikes.how and were should I post them?Also the early bike has a lucas mag but the later has what looks like a cross between a mag and a distributer.it also has a stator with 2 wires in the primary. thanks Jaminjim

[ERC]

Rotorwrench nailed it, a lot of the parts are interchangeable. You just have to know what you are playing with.  ERC

[rotorwrench]

You should be able to find some info on this site about posting pictures if you do a search. If you don't have your own server then you will need an account with a hosting server such as Photo Bucket or an equivalent. There are many to choose from if you Google. The chosen host jpg file can be included right into your post on the forum or into this site's photo gallery if you wish.

I can tell you more from the motor number than a picture. I've seen so many bitsa bikes over the years it's hard to tell what they are. A 500cc Tomahawk motor will fit right into a 700cc Trailblazer frame and visa versa. As a general rule, the Trailblazers came with an SR2 Lucas magneto, the Tomahawks & Chiefs had the Lucas distributor ignition, and the Apache had the Lucal K2F mag.

[ERC]

What are the motor numbers? You'll definitely have a better idea of what you have then. I have a lot of the numbers to go by that can probably help identify what you have.  ERC

[jaminjim]

OK the one thats supposed to be a 57 with the lucas mag and does not have removable rocker covers has the ID HDT 106 on the upper left front eng.case and on the back near the split it has on each side NC 1055.nothing on the trans.       The other also has same rockers the ID is  HDS 694 on eng. and trans. the split # on each side are NC 800.  Just wanted to say this is really great to be able to to talk to somone who knows something about these old bikes.My dad had one when he was young and told how he smoked his fellow harley riders on what they deemed a put put.He passed away in 98 but I can still see him laughing and telling that story. thanks jaminjim                       

[ERC]

HI, The numbers on the back flat part of the cases show that they match and you don't have different ones bolted together.  The number you need is stamped on the left case just above where the breather comes out and below the cylinder. This will be the engine number for the year of the motor. Back then your Dad was right the Harley's were really slow the British stuff would kill em right out of the box.  I think you mean cam covers aren't removable that would most likely put them 57 or earlier. Let me know what the numbers are where I told you to look.  ERC

[rotorwrench]

All the numbers so far are either transmission numbers or split line numbers. I don't know why but Royal Enfield stamped all of there engines with the transmission number that it was mated with at the factory. The actual engine ID numbrs are either stamped in the front of the case near the engine mount plates (very early RE twins) or they are stamper on the left side below the cylinder as mentioned previously. The characters are large either 1/4 or 5/16 inch. I have owned cases with no engine number stamping but I think they were replacement cases and they were busted too. Some owners ran them till they blew up then patched them and did it all over again. The old RE twins will run pretty fast but all bikes have there limits.

I can get in the ball park with the frame number but the Royal Enfield Owners Club  in the UK can get that number right on the money and they usually have the engine number that went with that frame from the Redditch factory plus what year it was dispatched. The numbers on the old twins are usually a 4-digit number stamped on the steering head with 1/4 inch characters or larger. there is also a casting number on there but it is raised and not stamped. I've had to strip the paint on some to see the numbers. These numbers were usually what was put on the title or registration as the actual VIN.

Kerby

[jaminjim]

Ok call me stupid I thought I had found all the eng. numbers but I was wrong.you guys are good.How about # SMR 4452 with stamped frame#5575 and cast frame #4759 The other has no frame but the eng.# is  SMP 4216    jaminjim

[ERC]

From the info I have the SMR # puts it as a 1957 Apache. The SMP# appears to be a 1957 Trailblazer. The info I have is not exactly on the money but I"m pretty sure thats what you have. The only way to find out exactly is to join REOC in England. At least the parts you have are all pretty much interchangeable. The 5575 on the frame could put the Apache at 1958. If you want I can Email you the list of #s I have for  REs of that period.   ERC

[jaminjim]

ERC that would be great.and thanks again.  Jaminjim

[rotorwrench]

I think ERC and I have the same list of engine numbers. It leaves out good bunch of numbers in 1957 due to all the 700cc motors being assigned numbers but prefixes were stamped in as soon as they knew what model it was going to end up. The engine change for the 1958 model year allowed them to assign a new numbering system for the different models. In any case I am fairly certain that both machines were manufactured in mid 1957. I have a Tomahawk that has a frame number higher than yours and I know it was manufactured in late 1957. It could have been a 57 or a 58 model but I never got a title with it. The Apache was the stripped down version of the Trailblazer and made for track or trail riding. They had the Amal 10TT9 carb and the K2F magneto with manual advance adjustment. They also had the Constellation type high compression pistons when new. They were the fastest bikes of the RE Indian models so many of them ended up with broken rods.

You may need some of the parts from that Trailblazer engine to repair your Apache. You'll have to tear it down & see what you'll need. I may have a good case for an Apache of that vintage if yours is not salvageable. I'll have to dig through my parts pile & see.

I know of no one currently making custom frames for RE twins but you can find originals of various vintage on e-pay all the time. It may be easier to modify an original than build a new one.

Kerby

[ERC]

What Rotor says is right on the money. I'll need your email address to send you the number list. It's hidden on your profile.   ERC