Author Topic: Harley-Davidson / Royal Enfield Collaboration (Read 14123 times)

RAKe · **on:** November 20, 2009, 06:44:27 am

I have recently heard some rumblings about Harley and RE teaming up in some respect in the future, but I have seen no concrete information on any collaboration between the two companies. Then today as I surfed the Pensacola Harley-Davidson website, I saw a large Royal Enfield emblem. When I clicked on it, I was linked to the RE India site, but no other information was provided.

My interest in Royal Enfield began when I wanted to downsize from the Big Twin I now ride, and I need to learn more about the HD / RE partnership. Can anyone help me out?

t120rbullet · **Reply #1 on:** November 20, 2009, 12:16:02 pm

I know that HD did some testing (EPA/DOT) for REM along the line somewhere.
I hope that their collaboration goes no further than that.
CJ

ace.cafe · **Reply #2 on:** November 20, 2009, 03:07:03 pm

Don't know.

There was some mention awhile back that HD wanted to get into the market in India, but I don't know if it means anything to do with RE.

HD just closed Buell, and is selling MV Agusta, so they may have different ideas about what they want to do now.

Or maybe HD might not want to expand at all now, during this economic situation.
It remains to be seen.

In the more distant past, HD has made some collaborations with foreign bike makers.

Kevin Mahoney · **Reply #3 on:** November 20, 2009, 06:16:23 pm

Harley and Royal Enfield have had a relationship as long as I have been involved in this. It may go back to family ties. As T120 pointed out they helped us with emissions testing years ago. There have always been a lot of back and forth visits. I was told by a factory executive (but cannot confirm) that at one time Harley and RE were in preliminary talks about RE assembling Harley s in India. I am told that RE declined because it didn't really do anything for our brand. I am also told that RE did some market analysis work for Harley prior to their entry into the Indian market. I would call the relationship "friendly" but don't see a future with them as one company. It really doesn't make sense for either company.
I can also tell you that some of the valve train in the new UCE is based loosely on some Harley parts. The hydraulic lifters are made in the US and if i could cross the numbers would drop right into some Harley.

GreenMachine · **Reply #4 on:** November 20, 2009, 10:25:20 pm

I'm not surprised by Kevin's post..lived in Delhi for 2 years and never had coco cola in country as they sold local product "campa cola" ..they are very proud of being a self sufficient democracy and with all their problems they seem to make due with their domestic manufacturing..Nice enough people but they seem leary of outside influences which probably goes back to their colonist past..I've heard that lately they are open to imports but only the ones they feel provide quality to their society...Interesting place to live and it was fun but was glad to come back to u.s.a....They can be tough in negotiation and business relationships..I'm sure things are more expensive now vice 15 years ago as the dollar isn't as strong against the rupee and any cost savings of building harleys there would create alot of heartburn over here....just some thoughts..

Ice · **Reply #5 on:** November 21, 2009, 01:28:03 am

H-D sources parts all over the world.
It makes business sense to me for them to want to expand their sales in the region as well as possibly source parts there.

Hornhonker · **Reply #6 on:** November 29, 2009, 08:21:16 pm

I think India has a 100% tariff on motorbike imports so Harley would do well to put them together
over there.

birdmove · **Reply #7 on:** November 30, 2009, 06:44:18 am

There is apparently a relationship between the American ATK motorcycles and Hyosung. Some kind of a joint venture where they will come up with smaller or mid sized street bikes. The piece I read said that the bikes will be sold at some HD dealerships. Interesting. Since Buell has been shut down there should be no more Blast.The Blast was used pretty heavily in the Riders Edge riding courses. It leaves the XL883 Lows,Customs,and Irons as the smallest bikes in the lineup-hardly good bikes for bare beginners. Maybe these ATK/Hyosungs might produce a motorcycle that would be a good starter/training bike? See:

http://www.powersportsbusiness.com/output.cfm?ID=2364175

RAKe · **Reply #8 on:** November 30, 2009, 02:27:01 pm

Many of us in the Pensacola, FL area understand that D&D Cycle (a Triumph dealer with a race team) recently ceased to carry the Royal Enfield line of motorcycles (they never liked REs anyway). I thought I was going to have to travel to another locale to buy a new RE, but I have learned that Harley-Davidson of Pensacola will become the local dealer for Royal Enfield.

That also answers Birdmove's question about a smaller bike at Harley dealers. I expect that Harley-Davidson will also handle service issues for the RE line, but at $70 an hour? I wonder how such a small and inexpensive manufacturer such as RE will fare beside the large and costly Harley behemoths. Maybe I can get a better deal because I am a returning customer--NOT!!

The Garbone · **Reply #9 on:** November 30, 2009, 03:03:15 pm

Quote from: RAKe on November 30, 2009, 02:27:01 pm

Many of us in the Pensacola, FL area understand that D&D Cycle (a Triumph dealer with a race team) recently ceased to carry the Royal Enfield line of motorcycles. I thought I was going to have to travel to another locale to buy a new RE, but I have learned that Harley-Davidson of Pensacola will become the local dealer for Enfields.

That also answers Birdmove's question about a smaller bike at Harley dealers. I expect that Harley-Davidson will also handle service issues for the RE line, but at $70 an hour? I wonder how such a small and inexpensive manufacturer as RE will fare beside the large and costly Harley behemoths.

Yikes,,, Harley could not make Buell work, I hope they don't give the same treatment to RE...

rideOn · **Reply #10 on:** December 03, 2009, 06:45:27 pm

h-d and re. hmmmm....

no! unholy alliance. when it comes to survival, h-d will only look out for h-d

clamp · **Reply #11 on:** December 26, 2009, 02:24:27 am

Sounds like a great partnership to me. For instance there engineering and quality is similar.

Thier performance expectations are antiquated along with design and they both sell to owners who are generally known as being brand patriotic bigots unshaken by lack of technology.

2 peas in a pod.

Cabo Cruz · **Reply #12 on:** December 26, 2009, 02:37:53 am

"2 peas in a pod." clamp

Br. Clampo, is this like two clamps on a hose?

clamp · **Reply #13 on:** January 05, 2010, 01:08:13 pm

Oh and reliability.

Cabo Cruz · **Reply #14 on:** January 05, 2010, 10:32:01 pm

"Oh and reliability." clamp

Kevin Mahoney · **Reply #15 on:** February 01, 2010, 04:51:59 am

There had been a very interesting dynamic going on for us this year, especially late this year. We did move into a Florida Harley store, mostly because of the enthusiasm of the owner and his willingness to stock inventory for customers to see. Can't sell from empty shelves. . As you know Harley is struggling as are most other bike manufacturers. Lots of Harley dealers have gone out of business which was unimaginable a few years ago.
If you talk to enough dealers you find a common theme -"My big stuff in not selling". Many dealers are fleeing that market as fast as they can liquidate inventory. Those that are not proper dealers and sell at deep discounts with no service are also dying. A dealer has to make money to stay viable. Some have been helped by service work and used bikes.

I think the whole huge V-Twin thing might be over here. There seems to be a trend for 900cc and less currently. We are getting bombarded by mainstream dealers who want in on the RE. It has been a bit difficult to wrap our heads around. Many of the guys who have a mix in their store tell us that the RE is the only thing that is selling for them right now. Very few dealers have something in our price range. They have cheaper and they have more expensive but not where we are.

This was reinforced to me as I have been traveling in CA recruiting and setting up potential dealers. We are a relatively unknown quantity in CA and the history and issues with iron barrels are not part of the conversation with these people. We have had to pick and choose who we want to give the product to not he other way around. We have more applications for good dealers than we have dealerships available. CA dealers are stressed just like dealers elsewhere, but seem more optimistic than most. We have picked a mixed group of old name well known dealers and a couple of not so well known dealers who seem to have what it takes to be a good RE dealer.
more later

Ice · **Reply #16 on:** February 01, 2010, 06:42:45 am

That's fantastic Kevin !!!

I have long suspected that a segment of market was due for a return to its roots with a bike like the C5 & G5.

REpozer · **Reply #17 on:** February 01, 2010, 10:05:28 am

Its time Harley got back on track. They have been resented by the die hards for years, and thought of by young people as retirement cycles. Good for RE.

ace.cafe · **Reply #18 on:** February 01, 2010, 02:53:39 pm

I think that if you're getting into Harley dealers, there needs to be an "image" created.

Perhaps you could contact Steve Firth, who painted this poster of James Dean on a Royal Enfield, and get permission to use it for a promotional poster at dealers, especially Harley dealers.

We already know that James Dean rode a Royal Enfield, and he's about as close to an icon like Marlon Brando as anybody's gonna get.

Perhaps it might be a good idea to be telling those dealers that James Dean rode a Royal Enfield, and give it some "50s bad-boy" image.

Here's Steve Firth's painting of James Dean on a Royal Enfield.
Yeah, I know its a 250 Turbo Twin 2-stroke, and that's not what Dean rode, but it says Royal Enfield on it.

Or have some other graphic artist do up a rendition of James Dean on a Royal Enfield.
I'll bet Chris Bartlett could do a great job of that.

Heck, the actual history is there, so you might as well use it to sell bikes
Harley sells "image" more than anything else, and has been for years

..

1Blackwolf1 · **Reply #19 on:** February 02, 2010, 05:57:27 pm

On a side note H-D commercials are airing currently that are offering 1% financing. Guess if you really want that new bike this would be the time for a purchase. If you really want one that is.

Will.

REpozer · **Reply #20 on:** February 03, 2010, 07:17:41 am

I always hoped that some yuppie, would have an HD, tucked in his garage with 500 miles on it and need some low ball cash. Yep I'm still waiting .
I was at HD shop last month, I like some of what they do, but tooo much $$$ for what I need .

Ice · **Reply #21 on:** February 04, 2010, 02:39:47 am

Quote from: REpozer on February 01, 2010, 10:05:28 am

Its time Harley got back on track. They have been resented by the die hards for years, and thought of by young people as retirement cycles. Good for RE.

With good reason.

Those are the fiscal demographic groups that H-D corporate management consciously decided to exclude from their marketing and sales focus. The stated strategy was to create a new image of cool and sell an upscale product to those who could afford it at higher prices.

When rebuffed at the dealerships the die hards voted with their wallets and exited for the Independent shops. They are the only ones who will work on H-D's over ten years old.

People have a tendency to trade up or replace their first bike with same brand.

H-D did not want to sacrifice R&D funds or production capacity to develop a light weight entry level bike. The young voted with their wallets and went to the Asian brands.

I don't think that the majority of baby boomers who are now retiring en masse plan on buying any more big V twins with their meager pensions if they have one.

I believe the goose is not laying many golden eggs these days.

1Blackwolf1 · **Reply #22 on:** February 04, 2010, 12:36:06 pm

At least at H-D they have stayed the course on design. I think the Victory has really lost what little design flavor they had. Those Ness boys have reallt done some stuff here recently. The Vision to me is in the from same design hell as the Honda Ruin (want to really make an ugly bike?..AKA the Ruin). And make it cost more than an H-D Police special.

Just my two pence on the situation.

Will.

RAKe · **Reply #23 on:** February 05, 2010, 05:31:04 pm

The other night I went out with a gal whose parents own the Harley dealership here in Pensacola, FL. After I filled her with expensive thai cuisine, she gave me the rundown on the RE-Harley partnership-it is pretty straightforward, actually. Select Harley-Davidson dealers have become dealers for the RE line of bikes. Sounds logical to me--both are iconic brands with a loyal customer following, and Harley desperately needs to offer a smaller bike to complement their Sportsters and big twins.

In fact, my initial interest in RE was while looking for a unique, but smaller and less expensive bike than my 2007 FXDB (now on Craigslist for $12,000--a giveaway). That search led me to this website and finally, to a new UCE in the spring or summer. But I still question how the Harley service department can expect to charge $70 an hour for service on REs.

bob bezin · **Reply #24 on:** February 05, 2010, 05:45:29 pm

most repairs take less than an hour?

Gregorin · **Reply #25 on:** July 21, 2010, 11:32:05 am

I tinking the H-D and RE is last real motor bike old school manufacturing on the world. But the RE is older.

cyrusb · **Reply #26 on:** July 22, 2010, 01:45:02 pm

Maybe the connection between the two companys is closer than it seems. Both are very old, both allmost went out of business, both "Evolved" into unlugged framed, pressure cast, modern UJM construction.
To stay competitive?

gashousegorilla · **Reply #27 on:** July 23, 2010, 03:11:36 am

Quote from: Kevin Mahoney on February 01, 2010, 04:51:59 am

If you talk to enough dealers you find a common theme -"My big stuff in not selling". Many dealers are fleeing that market as fast as they can liquidate inventory. Those that are not proper dealers and sell at deep discounts with no service are also dying. A dealer has to make money to stay viable. Some have been helped by service work and used bikes.

I think the whole huge V-Twin thing might be over here. There seems to be a trend for 900cc and less currently. We are getting bombarded by mainstream dealers who want in on the RE. It has been a bit difficult to wrap our heads around. Many of the guys who have a mix in their store tell us that the RE is the only thing that is selling for them right now. Very few dealers have something in our price range. They have cheaper and they have more expensive but not where we are.

Kevin, not to get off topic but has RE given any thought to looking into Indian(motorcycle) Dealerships? I know there are not many, but one opened up about two miles away from me in Jersey, this past spring. When I went in to check it out, I thought who the heck, in this economy is going to pay 35k-40k for a bike. Remember they only now sell the chief

Might be a good fit for RE?
I also noticed that they have more used harleys out front, then new Indians. IMHO, Harley better start looking to the next Generation. I'm a early Gen X'er. We are a mixed bunch, and forget about the generation after us, not much Harley interest there.

Mr_Gently · **Reply #28 on:** July 24, 2010, 10:58:08 pm

I gotta great idea, Why not sell "Indian" motorcycles that are actually Royal Enfields with different badges and logos on the the tanks? If all they've got is 35 grand bikes, they could sell some much cheaper ;Royal Enfields as Indian Tomahawks or Scouts or FireArrows or whatever. Just throw some leather fringy saddle bags on them and have some tassles coming off of the solo seats and such. Bound to work out for everyone involved!

Jinx · **Reply #29 on:** July 26, 2010, 11:23:18 pm

Well we now can have Officially Licesened "Royal Enfield cologne". LOL!