Author Topic: horse power vs top speed whats the deal? (Read 7384 times)

catastrophe · **on:** October 22, 2009, 12:00:38 am

OK, I have fun reading the forum awesome guys and smart talk. So on to the question....

There is a mikuni re-jet kit which gives a possible "4 more hp" for my 09' AVL Deluxe that means almost 20hp awesome. So what does that mean...? torque + topend or just torque.

If only torque at what HP or CC would the enfield see a difference in topend.

The reason I ask I've seen people say don't mod the bike up 535cc if your looking for top speed... you wont get it. But then again I see guys say I ride at 65 and the bike loves it. Is that a stock bike? My bike with 1500 miles loves the speedometer speed of 50-55.

I know I want to get a 20 tooth sprocket, ace air can, free flow exhaust and carb re jet or new carb all together. I'm not looking to ride the highway next to a big rig allday. Just looking for torque and power but topend would be nice without a massive engine job.

Dang I'm long winded.

ace.cafe · **Reply #1 on:** October 22, 2009, 12:51:01 am

Your bike has plenty of top end.
It will do about 75-80mph.
You have enough hp to do that.

The cruising speed is something else. Cruising speed is what you can maintain over a long period of riding, and that is limited.

The AVL comes with an 18T sprocket, if I remember correctly, so that is already one tooth higher than the Iron Barrel Bullet.
So, your gearing is already pretty good too.

The re-jetting kit, and perhaps the free-flowing exhaust and Ace Air Canister or other free-flow filter, are going to improve your engine's ability to make more power and run a bit cooler, and help acceleration. And it probably will give you a few more mph top speed too.
But, the cruising speeds are going to remain 65mph or under for an AVL.

catastrophe · **Reply #2 on:** October 22, 2009, 01:12:44 am

ACE get off the computer and ride your RE... just kidding I figured you would be the first to answer. Yea I've got to yes to that.

So should one do the re-jeting or is there a better carb to go with. I'm looking for simplicity and improvement. I've owned several vw beetles and the carb needles/jets were all accessable from the outside. Remove the needles spray carb cleaner and go. I've never re-jeted anything and reading around I cant find any air flow metering devices. I don't want to do test drives to see if the bike is to rich to lean... trial and error is not my bag.

ace.cafe · **Reply #3 on:** October 22, 2009, 01:27:09 am

Quote from: catastrophe on October 22, 2009, 01:12:44 am

ACE get off the computer and ride your RE... just kidding I figured you would be the first to answer. Yea I've got to yes to that.

So should one do the re-jeting or is there a better carb to go with. I'm looking for simplicity and improvement. I've owned several vw beetles and the carb needles/jets were all accessable from the outside. Remove the needles spray carb cleaner and go. I've never re-jeted anything and reading around I cant find any air flow metering devices. I don't want to do test drives to see if the bike is to rich to lean... trial and error is not my bag.

I can't ride right now.
I am sick with some kind of flu-type bug,and am stuck inside.

I think you can leave the bike as it is, and it will do fine.
The AVL filter is not a bad filter, and is much better than the older Iron Barrel filters.
You probably don't "need" any extra power of any magnitude to enjoy the bike.

If you want to do any changes that are out of your comfort zone, then you can take it to a dealer and have him do the changes and sort out the tuning until it's right.
Then you can have the mods, and don't have to fuss with it.

Ice · **Reply #4 on:** October 22, 2009, 03:16:57 am

Hi catastrophe,
I have no AVL experience as I own an Iron Barrel or perhaps it owns me

It stands to reason that your AVL machine would respond well to a low restriction air filter and exhaust.
Those you could install yourself.
Then you cold have your dealer or favorite service shop take care of tuning the carby.
Just a thought.

REgards,
Ice

Geirskogul · **Reply #5 on:** October 22, 2009, 05:20:29 am

The exhaust is the big one - the filter on the AVL is already quite large stock, flows pretty well, and has that HUGE airbox after it to accommodate quick throttle changes. But, of course, it's a case of once you start, it's hard to stop changing things.

I have the stock carb jetted up a bit, and I took the hotpipe out of the head pipe but left the black zeppelin muffler as-is, and things changed a bit for the better. I did have a problem with fuel flow, but a float height change fixed that. My bike likes to cruise at 55, but 60 is not unheard of, and I once got it to 75 by hunkering down behind my windscreen and using the passenger pegs. I was at WOT though and that's probably not too good on things like bearings and rods for extended periods.

Of course if you want to go more than 75 on a bike that weighs 350 lbs, be my guest

Ice · **Reply #6 on:** October 22, 2009, 06:15:25 am

I am not ecouraging any one to hot rod anything here.
Your AVL engines are better in many ways than my Iron Barrel.
The electronic ignition offers more stable and precise ignition.
The head has a better rocker system and improved cooling not to mention improved porting and better valve train geometry.
The lovely alloy cylinder sheds heat so much better than cast iron.
The positive displacement gear type oil pump has much greater capacity for better lubrication and cooling.
The crank is a more modern pressed up design with better bearings for greater durability and service life.

Geirskogul · **Reply #7 on:** October 22, 2009, 06:50:50 am

Wait the AVL has better bearings? I thought it had kind of the same crappy bearings and mediocre rod that the iron head had, and the only change was material and top valve train...? I've been waiting for the day when I'd have to order bearings and put the crank into the oven and press fit them out. Not saying that I was looking forward to it, but I kind of was looking at my Enfield like a ticking bomb.

Ice · **Reply #8 on:** October 22, 2009, 07:03:16 am

Yes Sir,
Better bearings in the AVL was among the many topics covered in a lengthy phone conversation with a fellow at C.M.W. I believe his name was Tate. He was very knowledgeable and genuinely passionate about motorcycling.

ace.cafe · **Reply #9 on:** October 22, 2009, 01:27:46 pm

Quote from: Geirskogul on October 22, 2009, 06:50:50 am

Wait the AVL has better bearings? I thought it had kind of the same crappy bearings and mediocre rod that the iron head had, and the only change was material and top valve train...? I've been waiting for the day when I'd have to order bearings and put the crank into the oven and press fit them out. Not saying that I was looking forward to it, but I kind of was looking at my Enfield like a ticking bomb.

The AVL has a roller big-end bearing and a steel con-rod, and higher volume gear-type oil pumps as standard equipment, in addition to the changes to the top end.
The main bearings are about the same as the iron barrel.
So, the basic thing is that the AVL comes stock with a similar setup as the Iron Barrel guys pay extra to get in an aftermarket crank with roller big-end and steel rod.
So, if your AVL crank was assembled well and is running true, you can access higher rpms than a stock iron barrel engine would.

UncleErnie · **Reply #10 on:** October 22, 2009, 03:22:06 pm

Unless you live on the Bonneville Salt Flats, a 20 tooth sprocket will feel like your horse-power left the barn and wandered away.

PhilJ · **Reply #11 on:** October 22, 2009, 03:34:48 pm

Catastrophe, I have an AVL and the one thing that gave more torque, a big noticeable jump, was discarding the 'bazooka' muffler, replacing it with an 60's BSA muffler. It's not real loud but had a great British bike sound. I later took out the restricter in the header pipe. The sound was a little better and the torque?, well I think it went up some but only slightly. I didn't have to rejet.
Ace was right about the top end. It is what it is unless big bucks are spent and then the top speed isn't really that much more. More peppy is what you get.

Cabo Cruz · **Reply #12 on:** October 22, 2009, 05:23:54 pm

Brothers, I know an excellent British motorcycle mechanic who believes the AVL is a 100,000-mile engine! So, I suggest that, while never pushing them beyond their limits, you should go ahead and have fun with your AVL Bullets! I have a lot of fun with Perla (my 2004 IB 65); I ride her hard (not beyond her capabilities) but I don't put her up wet!

With all due respect, I think there's a bit too much fear going around regarding the durability of our Bullets (IB, AVL, shive a git)! Most (if not all) of you know that I'm no mechanic!. So, simply read these comments from a guy who does take care of the things he enjoys using -- I had a Pentel mechanical pencil that I used, daily, for 15 years. Lastly, its beautiful in the ATL today... I'm going to use and enjoy my beloved Perla! Hasta la vista, baby!

Rick Sperko · **Reply #13 on:** October 22, 2009, 06:04:17 pm

Quote from: ace.cafe on October 22, 2009, 01:27:09 am

I can't ride right now.
I am sick with some kind of flu-type bug,and am stuck inside.

At least not with a full face helmet

I have nothing of value to contribute so I will walk away quietly now.

-Rick

1Blackwolf1 · **Reply #14 on:** October 22, 2009, 06:21:00 pm

I rmoved the PAV, put a K&N filter and cocktail shaker on my wifes AVL. Did a rejet and it runs out much better. I did the mods to let it run a little easier, not really for a top-end improvement. But it now reaches 60 mph easier. Have had it to 65-70 testing it but not any faster. I know it has a little left at the top end but figure why risk failure. Will.

ScooterBob · **Reply #15 on:** October 22, 2009, 08:03:07 pm

My Enfield experience tells me that a dead bone stock Enfield will, if you tune it well and lay down on the tank, go as fast as the valve springs will let it. If you add lots of hot-rod goodies and don't gear it up, it'll just just get to that point a little faster. It's funny to me how many people out there think "I"m gonna put me a bigger carb-uh-raider on it - and it'll go FASTER ...." Yeah, right - not without the 19 or 20 tooth sprocket! C'est la Vie ...

dogbone · **Reply #16 on:** October 22, 2009, 09:20:19 pm

Scooter bob is correct. Iff'n you want to go fast, buy a bmw, or a ducati.
Enfields are low speed cruisers that happen to have very good road manners.
Torque rules .

catastrophe · **Reply #17 on:** October 22, 2009, 09:18:29 pm

Alright guys, I think my questioning is over... I'm defiantly not looking for a rice rocket, just want to let the engine run easier IE make it less lean burn.. just more burn HAHA. I feel more comfortable riding around if I have to go to 60 or higher. I have checked the spark plug during regular maintenance and it has a nice white powdered look which if memory serves... lean. Anyway I think I'll add a new exhaust and adjust the carb. That's all the bike and I would ever need.

PhilJ · **Reply #18 on:** October 22, 2009, 10:04:13 pm

Welcome to the world of Bullet, Catastrophe.

Cabo Cruz · **Reply #19 on:** October 22, 2009, 10:55:49 pm

"Welcome to the world of Bullet, Catastrophe." PhilJ

Amen!

Geirskogul · **Reply #20 on:** October 23, 2009, 04:23:38 am

I'm thinking that after basic mods, the bike may gain just enough torque to put on a 19t and still be able to climb hills. I've still got the 18t, and it's nice, but with the aforementioned modifications I may be able to bring the rpms at 55 a bit down.

Anon · **Reply #21 on:** October 23, 2009, 05:47:45 pm

Quote from: Geirskogul on October 23, 2009, 04:23:38 am

I'm thinking that after basic mods, the bike may gain just enough torque to put on a 19t and still be able to climb hills. I've still got the 18t, and it's nice, but with the aforementioned modifications I may be able to bring the rpms at 55 a bit down.

I've got an 18 tooth sprocket lying around for my iron barrel. I've been planning on swapping it in place of the 17t once I ever get around to upgrading to a classic exhaust and either re-jetting the carb or getting another carb. I'm thinking along the same lines though - I'd be putting it on not for speed, but rather just to drop the rpms at 50-55 a little lower. My bike has very little vibration at 50mph, but at 55-60 it starts to get pretty noticeable. I'm hoping the 18t will move that vibration point a few mph higher. I figure with the power boost of the exhaust it ought to handle one tooth on the sprocket without trouble. You AVL guys are already one sprocket higher than us iron barrel guys by default.

Eamon

Vince · **Reply #22 on:** October 23, 2009, 06:41:44 pm

Eamon, you are right as to the changes you want to make. You will get what you are looking for. Talk to me about options and set up.
As for the AVL gearing, as well as any other RE, everyone should count the sprocket teeth before changing. I have had both AVL and OB bikes come from the factory with other gearing. Some of the AVL's came with 17t. Some OB's came with 18t. It doesn't matter what the specification is in the book. Just count to be sure.

LJRead · **Reply #23 on:** October 25, 2009, 01:19:43 am

I guess I'm not macho enough (with my Machismo) to give one hoot how fast I go or am able to go. My recent accident, which must be put down to improperly installing the rear tire,means I am now convinced that 40 mph is fast enough (especially with a speed limit the same). If I were living there I wouldn't have a bike, I don't think, just get by with my jeep type. Today I am carefully reinstalling said rear tire and it is all fine with me. I have a slow speed bike in a very slow speed country, one in which people are constantly exiting their cars on the traffic side without looking among a lot of other things. There is no real course of training for drivers here, so I know very well what I'm getting into. Big fast Ducatis and Harley's are for the other guys, I'm afraid. I have a moderate speed 350 AVL with 4 speed tranny and seem to get along just fine (until a week or two ago, that is).

Having said all this, I do like the general appearance of my bike and the new trike. If nothing else I can draw up a beer and enjoy looking at them!!!

ace.cafe · **Reply #24 on:** October 25, 2009, 01:20:35 am

Quote from: LJRead on October 25, 2009, 01:19:43 am

I guess I'm not macho enough (with my Machismo) to give one hoot how fast I go or am able to go. My recent accident, which must be put down to improperly installing the rear tire,means I am now convinced that 40 mph is fast enough (especially with a speed limit the same). If I were living there I wouldn't have a bike, I don't think, just get by with my jeep type. Today I am carefully reinstalling said rear tire and it is all fine with me. I have a slow speed bike in a very slow speed country, one in which people are constantly exiting their cars on the traffic side without looking among a lot of other things. There is no real course of training for drivers here, so I know very well what I'm getting into. Big fast Ducatis and Harley's are for the other guys, I'm afraid. I have a moderate speed 350 AVL with 4 speed tranny and seem to get along just fine (until a week or two ago, that is).

Having said all this, I do like the general appearance of my bike and the new trike. If nothing else I can draw up a beer and enjoy looking at them!!!

LJ,
I love what you did with the carburetor extension pipe into your airbox that you did a year or two ago.
I was just looking at that photo in your avatar, and it really looks perfect.
I know that is helping the bike's performance and is probably making it start up easier too.
That was a good mod!

LJRead · **Reply #25 on:** October 25, 2009, 03:00:10 am

The carburetor pipe mod just happened - not much thinking involved. The battery was stolen, so I decided to just use a condenser, then there was the carb. box on the other side, which seemed inefficient once I had gotten rid of the carb. box and the battery box, the rest went according to some obscure plan. Here in Tonga, any mods are unimportant as just having bike to ride means so much more.

And I suppose that's how life should be - people important, everything else to help them out. There is this tendency left over to try to make the best of each thing, but having a bike is such a fine thing - there is no local money for one and the cost of getting even a poor one here is so ridiculous, that I'm quite happy with what I have. I have a weird feeling that things there will someday be pretty much the same way.

Ice · **Reply #26 on:** October 26, 2009, 02:44:46 am

Its not how fast you go, its how you go fast.