[boulevard]

Okay I am getting angry! I posted a few days ago stating that I had broken my "Clutch Assembly" which is the part inside of the gear box that attaches to the clutch cable.   WELLL It FREAKIN BROKE AGAIN!!!!!!!  NO I was not pulling on the clutch hard! 

THERE IS MORE!!!! The cover to the gear box is cracked.  Something is putting a lot of pressure on that clutch assembly and the only thing that it touches is the rod that clutch assembly presses.  It is almost as if that rod is pushing back really hard on the clutch assembly.  so hard that it could crack the gear box cover.

Please please please help!

[The Garbone]

Pull your primary cover and take apart the clutch basket..   There are 3 bolts holding the top plate/springs on.  Once you take the fist plate off pull the plates but keep them in order, noting which side is out just to make it easier to put back together.   You should be able to pull the rod that actuates the clutch out and check things for binding / movement.    Sounds like your actually clutch is jammed/fouled and if there is no give this could cause these issues.    Maybe a bit of starter sprag got in there..

I wonder if you put it in and set it up properly. I found it pretty how sensitive the setup on that mechanism is.    Is your mechanic a RE guy? If not I suggest you might want to buy Pete Snidals manual, he has some good stuff in there.

Oh,  and if you have a LH shift 5 speed I can send you my old chrome lid for the price of shipping.  I have it left over from my RH shift conversion and it did not sell on ebay...

[Ice]

I can send you my old chrome lid for the price of shipping.  I have it left over from my RH shift conversion

 Good of you Sir, I salute you.

[boulevard]

I will definitely accept the offer for the gear box lid.  I can pay you through paypal or send you a check. 

I am also going to upload some pictures to show how jacked up this thing is

[The Garbone]

PM or email me your address...  You can pay using paypal me when you get the lid...

[boulevard]

Here is a pic of the first clutch assembly.  The arm that connects to clutch cable is broken off.

[boulevard]

The one I installed last night.  Notice the cracks in the plate.  Crazy.

[boulevard]

The crack in the gear box.  Holy crap . . . looks like this military has been to war. 

[Blltrdr]

It looks like the cover was overtightened. Check that the adjuster on the clutch operating assembly is slackened before the cover is put on. If it is screwed in to far you will have excessive pressure when tightening the case to the gearbox. Check the assembly of the clutch pack and make sure it was properly put in with dished plates facing correctly (dish out-dish in). Also check the actuator rods and ball bearing (rod-bearing-rod-clutch rod pad). Check your clutch basket and make sure it is fully seated and not hanging up on the spline. You should be able to figure this problem out fairly fast.

[1Blackwolf1]

  Sort of looks like something was sitting cock-eyed when it was reassembled.  Make sure the cover mates to the trans evenly when you reassemble it with the replacement cover.  May want to use some emery cloth to buff off the alignment pins.  The pins on mine were pretty scuffed up and the case wouldn't slide on easily during reassembly.  Five minutes with a diamond file and fine emrry cloth and voila, all was well.
 
  All the other posts are good also.  Good luck.  Will.

[UncleErnie]

I sure wish we could get full-screen pictures.  This is rather maddening.

[scoTTy]

I click on the forward and it downloads into preview..

and man that crack ain't pretty

[Blltrdr]

I sure wish we could get full-screen pictures.  This is rather maddening.

Can't you click on the attachment (clip) icon then open the pic with Windows Photo Gallery?

[1Blackwolf1]

  You know I just lookes at the picture at full size on both pieces, and am wondering if the outer cover wasn't weak/bad casting.  The covers seem to be made out of some thin material, maybe it cracked on a fault in the casting and took the mechanism with it.  I changed to right hand shift and the cover seemed to be thicker.

  I know it was posted somewhere else on the forum that the cover has a lot of flex in it and that was part of the reason not to hold the clutch in for extended periods/over adjust the clutch cable.  Does present another possibility.  Will.

[ScooterBob]

Those parts certainly DO look like something was forced/crammed together - or the lifter rod was seized in the mainshaft. Check CAREFULLY before re-assembly. Also note that the clutch lifter mechanism has been upgraded to include a "pivot swingy thingy" on the cable end so as not to put the cable in a bind. This happened in late 2006. Call Tim at CMW for the part number - he'll hook a man up! Good luck with that project.

[boulevard]

Thanks for all the input! I really do appreciate it.  let me reply to some of the posts.

1.  this is now two clutch assembly's that have broken.  First one broke before I ever opened the gear box.  I just bought this bike 1 week ago.  AARG!  I was ready to do repairs but not so serious and so soon.

2.  The clutch assembly came already assembled so I know all the plates were pointed in the right direction and I don't think there was any room for error because there was really only one way that it could have gone together.

3.  After installing assembly I effortlessly put the gear box cover on.  Nothing was jammed.  The cover just slipped on and I tightened the screws.

4.  I did refill gear box with EP 90

INTERESTING THINGS THAT MIGHT HELP

1.  The screw on the new clutch assembly was cracked right in the middle (attached)

3.  I was riding it and everything sounded good for about 20 miles

WHAT I FELT WHEN IT BROKE

1. I went to pull in the clutch and it wouldn't budge.  I pulled a little harder because I was coming up on a stop light.  I did not pull really hard but I did pull again harder. 

2. In an instant all of the tension on the clutch handle was gone. because this just happened to me last Sunday I did not want to be stalled on the side of the road again.  So instead of letting the engine die I rode it in the gear I was in (2nd) all the way back home carefully listening to make sure that there wasn't any clanking or weird noises coming from gear box. 

3. Without using the clutch I carefully pushed it into neutral as I rode in to my driveway.

4. Opened up the window / cover that says "5 speed" and pushed on the clutch assembly before removing the gearbox cover.  The clutch assembly wiggled as if it was broken in some way

5.  I then opened up the gear box cover and as soon as I loosened it I heard and saw through the window the clutch assembly fall apart. 

6.  I didn't seem as if any of the parts were grinding around in there

My ignorant synopsis.  I either don't know my own strength the clutch rod is pushing back on the assembly or something is making it so that the clutch can't move the clutch rod and I don't know my own strength and am pulling too hard.

WIERD . . . I can't be pulling too too hard because it happens in an instant. I didn't even have time to think . . . pull harder.  You would think if I was pulling hard enough to crack my gear box cover that I would have to . . . stop . . . think . . pull hard. . . now pull harder .  . . crack . . . crap!  It happened effortlessly in an instant

[boulevard]

A few more things.

1.  The screw was cracked at the same time as the clutch assembly.  previous post made it sound as if I installed it with a broken screw

2.  My mechanic is hardly "mine"  He is just the mechanic at the dealership I bought the bike from.  When I called him he recommended that I bring it in for him to look at.  This is 2 hours away.

3.  I have no idea how much experience he has with enfields.  They are an Enfield dealer so he must have some experience

4.   Picture of dog snuck in there . . . I should name my pictures to keep them organized . . . He does look concerned. 

[1Blackwolf1]

  Couple questions, you say you installed a new clutch and that it was pre-assembled, where did you buy it from?  Unless you changed the drum/basket and all and the new one was bolted/bound together I've not seen a clutch pre-assembled for a bike.  The parts may have beeen put in a configuration of disks and spacers to aid in counting. 

  Suppose we should also ask if this was a used unit or new.  You may be fixing a prior owners problem that he had or created.  The actuating rods need to be lubed on reassembly.  Both the one under the pressure plate and the one in the transmission.  I used Amsoil red grease and that really made the clutch action smoother.  Any binding/resistance in these components makes a huge difference in required effort.

  Did you go to heavy duty springs on the clutch assembly?  If so did you install only three?  (Every other bolt).  Just trying to give some more options of where to look for a cure.  Will.

[The Garbone]

Nice dog.     

Will is right,  you going to have to open the primary up and take apart the basket and verify things or you risk a repeat.  How many miles does the bike have?

[hoppyre]

When you get around to getting your parts for your clutch, don't forget to get a new clutch cable. With the new release lever style (07) it has a shorter cable. That way you will have more adjustment for it. Good luck,  Mark

[GreenMachine]

you mention 90 wt. gear oil refill....when u put everything back together on the primary, what did you fill it with (type f transmissiion or 20w50 oil)....just curious on that one..

[boulevard]

Well I thought about this bike all night last night and came to a few conclusions. First let me respond to the posts.

1. I only replace the "clutch operating assembly" it was new and it is the piece that is in the pictures that the clutch cable connects to.

2. I didn't touch the clutch itself

3. I used gear oil from auto zone that matched what the enfield manual said to use.

4. The bike has 1700 miles on it. Mechanic said it ran fine for him. I have lots of bikes and don't have a history of being rough on them. I just happened to get the bike at the wrong time. I still love it ... Just want to get it fixed. Feels like a child is sick. I'm restless.


As I thought all night long. Here is what I think.

1. Something is causing that rod that goes through the clutch to not be "pressable" or whatever you want to call it. Something causes it to stick.

2. I pulled to hard on my clutch lever then shattering the clutch operating assembly.

3. the gear box lid must have been weakened.

4. I must have lots of leverage with the clutch lever allowing me to do a lot of damage with a little bit of strength.

if you haven't given up on me yet. What could be causing that rod that goes through the clutch(the one that the clutch operating assembly pushes) what could cause it to stick and not be pressed?

[1Blackwolf1]

  I think I'm on the road to figuring out your clutch problem.  You haven't had the primary cover off yet I take it.  Let me know if this is the current situation.  Will.

[boulevard]

Oh man that would be great. No I haven't had that cover off yet.

[1Blackwolf1]

  Okay now we're getting to the root of all problems.  Up till now you have only been working on the engagement arm/clutch cable system.

  The clutch assy (pressure plate/discs/friction plates/clutch pad) are inside the primary housing.  Something is fubared/stuck/jammed up in the clutches themselves.  Let us know if you have a manual.  If you do go to clutch removal/installation.  I'd say your clutch pad is stuck to/fused to the inside of the pressure plate.  Or something (trash/metal shavings are stuck inside the system not allowing it to freely engage and disengage.  Lack of lube possibly caused seizure.  I'd definitely open the primary and start looking for the gremlin. 

  Basically you probably need to do a primary drive service/major clutch service.  Not a biggy, couple hour job tops.  Let us know if you have a manual, I can probably -email you the pages from the book.  Will.

[1Blackwolf1]

  Lets work on finding the piecy parts that are fubar first, our host has everything you need to fix her up to snuff.  Just go to the accessorize link and you'll find everything you need.  A virtual candy store of goodies, and they ship fast.  Let me work on downloading the pages you'll need to do the job.  Will.

[boulevard]

Candy store sounds good. I'll open it up tonight and post pics and see what we see. 

[chumma7]

Hey boulevard
If you still need another transmission cover I wouldn't mind sending you mine.
Mine is also off an '06 military and is in perfect condition so the paint would match perfectly.
send me a pmg with your address if you are interested. I'll have it out tomorrow. Paypal me shipping when you get it.
chumma

[1Blackwolf1]

  Sent you the manual page you'll need to do the job.  Don't worry about the steps to emove the chain adjuster or clutch center hub.  Loosen the cover plates a little at a time so you don't strip any threads or have springs flying.

  Just have to follow the steps I gave you on how to remove the primary cover.  Make sure you disassemble the components in order noting which way the discs are assembled they have to go back the way they came off the shaft. 

  If you get it apart tonight the piece I'd suspect of malfunction is the clutch pad.  If it is deformed or won't slide in and out of the shaft it's in thats not good.  It should look sort of like a nail head with a raised center portion.

  Once you drain the primary note the color/quantity of fluid that was in it.  This should give you a good starting point to work from.  Take pictures of what you find as you work..makes our job helping easier.  Will.

[boulevard]

well I opened her up and I found a cracked spring washer part number 140346.

I will upload pictures first thing in the morning before work.  They are all on my camera and I need to upload to my other computer.

After taking off the primary cover and draining the oil I found a piece of a washer a little over a quarter inch long sitting in the bottom of the pan or whatever it is called.  After I took the clutch plates off I saw the broken washer smiling at me    I did pull out clutch rod pad and it looked unharmed.

As with anything I think now hmmm what caused the washer to break?  I will upload lots of pictures tomorrow and see if you guys see anything else suspicious. 

BTW I am beginning to think this forum is the best thing since sliced bread and 2 wheeled vehicles.  There is no way I would have made it this far with my non-grease monkey self. 

[1Blackwolf1]

  Kind of hard to say what could have caused the washer to break.  Could have been like that for a long time.  Bolts might have been loose from original assembly causing uneven clutch actuating.  Prior owner may have done something inside the clutch and not got everything lined up right on reassembly.

  So my thought is if the washer was stuck between the plates/discs when you put your replacement parts in the trans cover you adjusted the free play to the correct amount, and when you rode the bike the clutch was already at max tension and pulling the clutch lever was putting extra force on the lever.  Kind of like mechanical overload on a weak design part.  And the force had to go somewhere, and took out the weakest link in the equation.

  Kind of wondering if you don't have a weak/strong clutch spring set-up.  Thats where someone put a stronder spring on very other mount and used the original spring in alternate locations.  Suppose I'd do this and start out with a level field and know what I had for the future, especially since you have it aprt anyway.  I'd order a Z90281, clutch pad w/roller bearings.  Clutch overhaul kitZ90833,  And the heavy duty springs Z90283.  This way you have everything new and better than stock.

  You could probably get away without the heavy duty springs and the clutch pad w/bearings.  But the roller bearings on the clutch pad reduce friction, and using the heavier springs will reduce clutch slip if installed on every other mount.  And I think, IMHO that the upgrades make the bike a little more user friendly.  But I would definitely replace the clutches/discs at a bare minimum since they may have become warped.

  Suppose I need to go back through and look at the picture that shows the actuating rod from the transmision end also.  Thats the rod the clutch actuator was working against.  What did the oil look like when you drained it?  Amcurious if it ran hot due to lack of oil.  Will.
 

[boulevard]

Okay here are the pictures.  The picture of my hand is intended to show the little fragments of metal that I found in the oil.  They were little but I thought it might benefit to show them.  The washer that broke came from behind the lock nut with the red lock.  I had to drain the oil into a white trash bag because I didn't have anything big enough to cover so much ground.

Before I took off the primary cover i unscrewed the screw that is supposed to serve as the way to tell if you have enough oil.  A little oil dribbled out which made me think that there was enough oil in there.

[boulevard]

more pics

[boulevard]

you can see the broken washer in this one

[boulevard]

more pics

[boulevard]

more pics

[boulevard]

more pics

[boulevard]

last one

[1Blackwolf1]

  I'm trying to figure out where that piece of shrap metal came from.  Doesn't look like anything that belongs to the clutch sytem.  Unless that piece came from the washer behind the nut holding the basket on the shaft.  Thats a large piece.  Take that chunk and see if it completes a puzzle on the washer behind the lock nut.  We know what it was doing to your clutches, now we have to find out where it came from so we can repair the problem so it doesn't cause more grief.  Maybe take some pictures of the other end of the primary, thats the alternator/sprague clutch end.  Will.

 

[boulevard]

Ya it fits the washer perfectly.  I think it is safe to say that it completes the puzzle.  here is a pic of the alternator side.

[1Blackwolf1]

  Okay you have snatched the pebble from the masters hand grasshopper.  All that's left to do is order your repair parts from the store.  And you should be GTG (good to go).  After you reassemble everything I'd put in a full quart of either ATF/20w50, you can read all the prior posts about what peoples choice is.  I use 20w50.  But type F ATF is also reocmmended by the pro's at CMW.  You make the choice, but you definitely didn't have enough lube in there originally.

  Keep us posted on the repairs.   Will.

[boulevard]

Aaaah I feel like I graduated college all over again.     Thanks for your help! I think this will fix it too.  I just ordered all the parts and gaskets.  Can't wait to get it back on the road again. 

Strange how these bikes cause a love hate relationship.  I am no longer frustrated and can rest well knowing she's gonna be okay. . .   at least for a while

[1Blackwolf1]

  Yes you have to bond with these, but it makes you appreciate the ride more.  Will.

[boulevard]

Well most of my parts came in today and I have been installing everything on the primary side.  My new question is probably crazy but here it goes.  Do I need to tighten the 3 screws that hold the clutch springs in all the way?

It seems like I remember them being tight but I can't figure out how the clutch engages and disengages if those springs are tightened all the way. 

I guess I can't figure out how those springs work.

[Blltrdr]

Well most of my parts came in today and I have been installing everything on the primary side.  My new question is probably crazy but here it goes.  Do I need to tighten the 3 screws that hold the clutch springs in all the way?

It seems like I remember them being tight but I can't figure out how the clutch engages and disengages if those springs are tightened all the way. 

I guess I can't figure out how those springs work.

Yes tighten them down evenly and finish by torquing to 7ft. lbs..

[1Blackwolf1]

  The bolts are the stop/anchor point for the clutch(es) system.  When you pull the clutch in it acts on the engagement rod and opens the plates basically.  Doesn't really work the same as a car clutch.  Does the same thing but not by the same action.

   After you assemble everything and reinstall your trans cover you can adjust your free play and see what I mean if you leave the primary cover off.  Disengage/engage your clutch a few times and you can see how it works.  I just wouldn't start it w/o the primary case closed up and oil present.  But you can see how little play you have and what probably transpired.  Will.

[boulevard]

Whew it was a busy weekend not involving fixing the military. 

Okay I see how those springs work now. 

1 thing confused me for about an hour.  I could not get the new clutch assembly lever (part that connects to clutch cable) to connect with the clutch pad.  Keep in mind I assembled it on the cracked gear box just to make sure everything was looking right.  What I figured out was that my original clutch cable that came on the 06 military is too long to work with the new different clutch assembly.  Placing an order for the right one tomorrow.

I also discovered that the "pin" or end of clutch assembly lever was fatter in diameter compared to the original one.  When I looked closely at the second clutch assembly lever (i'm on the 3rd) I noticed that the metal had been strippied away around the edges of the pin that connects and presses on the clutch pad.  HMMMM so I placed it next to the clutch pad and there is no way that the thick diameter would allow it to press in on the clutch pad.  My original "Pin" or screw that presses the clutch pad was smaller in diameter and in good shape so I swapped that portion of the clutch assembly with the new one. 

I'll attach pictures once the new gear box cover comes in and I open it up again. 

[1Blackwolf1]

  Amazing how much variance there is in the same part.  You really have to put on your detective cap sometimes to do simple repairs.  Was just beginning to wonder where you were at on repairs.  Good luck, Will.

[boulevard]

Everything is installed and bike has run great for 100 plus miles    Thanks to Chuma Gee for the gear box cover. 

The only wierd thing is that the kickstart pedal is sometimes sticking in the down position after I kick it.  I am guessing that the oil just needs to work itself into the hole that the kick pedal goes through on the gear box.

[1Blackwolf1]

  Return spring may be a tad weak.  Are you pushing the kicker all the ay through the starting stroke.  Mine sort of did that until I realized I wasn't going all the way through the stroke and it was getting hung.  Next time it does that give it a tap with your foot and see if it returns.  Will.

[clamp]

The spring need to be pre loaded. You will have to remove it and re attach 360 degrees tighter.