[Royal Bulleteer]

Howdy,

I'm looking to purchase a 1999 Bullet 500 from a guy near me but there are some things that are a little off.

Firstly, I'm in California.  So there's that whole issue.

However, the guy says the bike is titled in California and he's had it for three years.

He said he's the second owner and he originally purchased it three years ago from someone in Oregon. 

Here's the interesting part, it's a 1999 which is matched on the body and engine but the title says it's 1955.  He said it was like this when he got it from the guy in Oregon.

He said b/c it was out of state he had to take it to the DMV for inspection and they issued him a new title.

Couple of questions;

Does any of this make sense?  Is this possible?  If I bought this bike what kind of issues could I run in to?  Is it possible it's stolen?  Is there anyway to find this out?

Thanks!

Z

[REpozer]

Sorry I have no Cali experience , some thoughts...

After you are  totally confused from making a barrage of phone calls to all the authorities...

Depending on the price and how much you trust the guy.....

You could offer 1/3 down and the rest when the title clears. Or shoot offer $ 1.00 and the rest when the title clears , maybe his reaction will help you make up your mind.

[brkeegan]

Well, I can't say for Cali, but in Ohio if you buy an out of state ride, you have to bring it in for an inspection that confirms the VIN, make and model.  I suppose that if that is the case in Cali as well, then perhaps the person checking may have been fooled and thought the bike actually was a 55, or they just looked at the Oregon title and transfered what ever year was there.  I'd try and find out where  the first owner got the bike.  People in the forum have mentioned that if the bike came from India (brought back by some one or purchased as a "restored bike") they often have false documents to support the year, when in actuality the bike may be a mashup of other bikes and parts. Not sure if any of that helps, the only issues I could see is if you leave Cali or want to sell the bike at some point, you may encounter difficulties there.
          BK

[PhilJ]

There has been some talk on this board about issues like yours. It seems that a bike with a date like '1955' was probably imported from India and quit possibly have been put together with odd ball parts from different vintages.

This does not mean it would be a bad bike but could make repairs and service nightmare.

To me the gamble isn't worth the potential hassle.

[single]

Why not just take the paperwork to the dmv and find out if they are ok with it?If not,it is the sellers' responsibility to straghten things out.It took me three years to get a Mi title on my RE because the computerized system did not "like" the title.New bike.Had to get a letter from aN RE company official to satisfy dmv.Three years.

[ace.cafe]

Why not just take the paperwork to the dmv and find out if they are ok with it?If not,it is the sellers' responsibility to straghten things out.It took me three years to get a Mi title on my RE because the computerized system did not "like" the title.New bike.Had to get a letter from aN RE company official to satisfy dmv.Three years.

The paperwork was changed by somebody, so they could get it into the US, or registered in Cali.
The "DMV" didn't do it.
Somebody else got some "fake papers" for the bike, to fool the Cali DMV into thinking it was an antque bike, so they could get it registered there.
This is pretty common, but it's also fraud.
As PhilJ says, it may have been exported from India with the fake paperwork, so it could be imported into this country. That's done alot. And it's still fraud.

So, I dunno what you want to do, but  you are looking at a bike that has "funny paperwork" either way you look at it, and it's not really kosher.
You may get away with it, and it seems that some do get away with it, but there's always a chance that you could get stung with it, if somebody figures out what's been done.
If you are thinking about doing it, you'd better see that valid Cali registration paper in your hands before even thinking about proceeding.
The "guy says it" isn't going to cut it, when you're dealing with a situation like this.
You have to see it on official Cali registration that isn't expired, and in full compliance with their stuff, and hope that nobody figures out the scam when you are changing the title to your name.

There are "grey market importers" that do this to newer bikes from India, to get them thru customs and into this country. They show  paperwork from India that says it's an antique bike, when it really isn't. That's how some of these Bullets get in here.
If it was imported from India that way, and it gets found out, US Customs will seize the bike and you'll lose the bike and your money.

[Vince]

    Listen to Phil and Ace. These bikes are a nightmare. RUN!!!!

[Royal Bulleteer]

I think the message is pretty clear.  Whether or not my seller did any of the changes doesn't really matter.  It's still a gray market bike and I really don't want to deal with the hassle that could be associated.

It's such a shame because the price is right and it's got all the accessories I wanted but it also has some potential for heart ache.

I've seen pictures w/ recent CA plates/tags on it.  Just haven't seen it in person yet.

THanks guys!

Know anyone with a completely legit Bullet 500 near San Francisco?

[Kevin Mahoney]

There is someting very fishy about the sellers story. You can buy a legitimate 1999 REM for a very good price so why bother with something that is going to give you title trouble sooner or later, If nothing else when you want to sell it.
  As others have said it is not unheard of for an Indian seller to fake the paperwork. Beyond the obvious troubles parts can be a nightmare. We just sold a guy a crankshaft for his 500cc 1972 Enfield (bear in mind the 500cc was not produced until the 1990's in India). The crank on his "rebuilt to new specs in India" crank had been hammered together and failed almost right away. Turns out that what he really had was a 350 crankcase that had been machined to accept a 500cc barre ll. Of course the crank wouldn't fit and the worst part is that in the process of trying to fit it, he damaged it (figuring it had to fit if it was a 500) and it was not returnable. Now he is into two crankshafts. Whatever little bit of money he saved has not evaporated and he still does not have a bike he can ride. Parts for these mutants can be a nightmare.

[Royal Bulleteer]

So lets say the guy goes for $100 down the rest pending successful registration with California DMV; if I mention to the DMV that the title appears to have an erroneous year on it (1955) what are the chances they'll just edit it in the system so the new title pops out with 1999 which is what the bike is.

Also, what if they dont?  What could occur then?  I tell the guy they won't take it/change it or they gave me hassle about the 1955 ... I get my $100 back and we part ways.

Someone else e-mailed me about this and said he bought his bike from Oregon and it was the same way, 1955 on the title.  He said he mentioned it to the DMV lady and she changed it to 2001.

Looking forward to your responses

[1Blackwolf1]

  Doesn't California have a minimum mileage needed to be registered?  If it's past that mileage I suppose that would make it less bogus for the future..but letting any DMV know they made a mistake, I had something similiar to that happen in Louisiana years ago.  Almost ended up with a fine for illegal registration.  I think I would walk away now.  The guy might be trying to unload it and get a littlke hostile if you give him those terms. 

  Something isn't kosher here, why don't you call the DMV to see what flags get waved over the phone before showing up in person.  May save lots of hard feelings later.  Just my 2 pence thrown into the discussion.  Will.

[Royal Bulleteer]

Will,

Thanks for the advice.  That's exactly what I was going to do tomorrow.  Give the DMV a call and explain the situation (originated erroneously in Oregon as 1955) and wasn't caught at CA registration.

As it stands, it's not my bike now and not my problem, so I dont want to make it so.  Information seeking first!

Will update later

Z

[Kevin Mahoney]

I had a 49 Ford pickup in the 1970's with a title that said it was 48 and had a VIN number snafu. Got the VIN number fixed in Montana after I did a big favor for the sheriff who had to inspect the vehicle. Moved to CA. Title still said 48. Took it for inspection and the guy called me on it. As it happened it had a Studebaker hood ornament on it. I pointed to the ornament and told the the guy that it was how you could tell a 48 from a 49. ( I thought that was pretty quick thinking since I didn't see it coming - served me well after I got married to my first wife LOL). Got my papers but vowed to never get involved with an erroneous title again.

[Royal Bulleteer]

Good advice Kevin!  I'm on a fact finding mission first.  If I get any sense they think something is up or won't change it to a 1999 on the title then I'm not buying it.

I've only had one wife so far and hope to keep it that way!

Z

[Kevin Mahoney]

I have a first class wife now. The first one was an alcoholic nut case and I asked for the trouble I got.