Author Topic: Who has replaced a sprag clutch? (Read 13087 times)

UncleErnie · **on:** August 07, 2009, 11:04:10 pm

Getting ready for new sprag and reading the manual (read; looking at pictures).
- What is anabond?
- Do I need to take out the alternator also, or just the clutch?
- Do I need any special tools?
- How long did it take you?
- Is the take-down and re-assembly fairly self evident, or am I going to need documentation as I go?
- Any things to watch for / tips?

I realized I didn't have nearly enough oil in there- may have contributed to blow-up? I plan to use a quart of ATF. Good? Bad? What do YOU use?

REpozer · **Reply #1 on:** August 07, 2009, 11:46:24 pm

Sorry Uncle E,
My spag appears to still be working.
Let me share a few pointers that you may find helpful.

1)We all know how to accomplish the fluid priming gyration we all learned in RE 101.So I will spare you that. Do it now.

2) After garnering all factory recommended safety gear( IE cool shades, leather flight jacket and sturdy pair of tennis shoes). Confidently mount your MC from the left side remembering the lessons learned way back in Coolness 101 class (hopefully you have an audience by now)

3) After you are safely mounted on your RE MC, assume a relaxed poster (a crowd should be on pins and needle's by now if you have followed steps 1&2 properly.)
And remember coolness still counts.

4) Hold chin up in a symbolic juster as to point to a bright riding future. Now ready your right thump approx 1mm away from the electronic starter motor switch.

5) THIS IS IMPORTANT....hold tongue to left side of lips and MASH the STARTER BUTON.

6) Once you are certain the RE engine is pumping under its own power, promply release the electronic starter motor switch . This seems to not agitate the spag.

7) Enjoy a safe ride. Give the crowd a slight wave as you ride away.( coolness 202)

If you properly follow the above steps a sprag should last a life time.

And yes, I have kept a full litre of 20w-50 dino oil in my primary.Perhaps your Crew Chief has betrayed you.

UncleErnie · **Reply #2 on:** August 08, 2009, 01:08:09 am

Well, there seems to be a raging debate about what oil to use, doesn't there.
So what wlse is new.

Sprag gears and crashes; not a matter of "if", but "when", my over confident friend.
I have twice the miles you do and thought I was in the clear, also. Hear those foot steps in the night...?

So, that was fun.
Do I have to take out more than the clutch?

REpozer · **Reply #3 on:** August 08, 2009, 02:55:41 am

Quote from: UncleErnie on August 08, 2009, 01:08:09 am

Sprag gears and crashes; not a matter of "if", but "when", my over confident friend.
I have twice the miles you do and thought I was in the clear, also. Hear those foot steps in the night...?
So, that was fun.
Do I have to take out more than the clutch?

Thump! Drag! Thump! Drag!......
" Uah!??? Uncle Ernie , Is that you"?!!!!
Thump! Drag!....
AHHHHHHHH GLOP!!

UncleErnie · **Reply #4 on:** August 08, 2009, 03:09:05 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz_crHdfggY

Oh- that's not me. That's your sprag clutch coming to get you in the night.

(I wonder if Kevin ever reads this junk and cries himself to sleep?)

REpozer · **Reply #5 on:** August 08, 2009, 03:14:07 am

I actually just watch that one.

Got it free from the libray. No cable TV.

ace.cafe · **Reply #6 on:** August 08, 2009, 01:56:58 pm

Anabond is a company in India that makes sealant and threadlocker compounds.
So, depending on where they tell you to put it, you could substitute RTV or Blue Loctite.
RTV to seal like a gasket, and blue Loctite for thread locking.

The alternator definitely has to come out, and the sprocket behind it.

I didn't need any special tools, but I was just taking it out, not putting it back together.
I think you can do it all with normal hand tools.

It should be pretty self-evident as far as how to get it apart.
Be sure to clean any metal particles off the alternator, especially in the gap.
You have to set the alternator gap correctly when you put it back together.
There's a gauge for this, but some people just use a piece of plastic of about the right thickness, like from a milk jug or peanut butter container. It has to be a non-magnetic material.

Ideas about the oil vary, but what I've heard is that Dexron ATF with an over-fill is the most recommended.

UncleErnie · **Reply #7 on:** August 08, 2009, 09:11:18 pm

Huh. I wonder where this gap is you speak of.
Well- it doesn't work now, nor I guess I'll just start unscrewing things and see what happens. I guess I can always dump it in a trailer and take it to my dealer....

UncleErnie · **Reply #8 on:** August 08, 2009, 10:52:30 pm

I put a socket on the first nut and the whole shebang moves- except the nut. Do I need to put the bike in gear to offer resistance?
Also, the manual says to use special tools- pullers I assume. I can get this thing apart without these pullers?

ace.cafe · **Reply #9 on:** August 08, 2009, 11:49:23 pm

Quote from: UncleErnie on August 08, 2009, 10:52:30 pm

I put a socket on the first nut and the whole shebang moves- except the nut. Do I need to put the bike in gear to offer resistance?
Also, the manual says to use special tools- pullers I assume. I can get this thing apart without these pullers?

Yes, it's a good idea to put it in gear and lock the brake on.

I didn't need any pullers. You might not need any.

Blue Ridge Wheeltor · **Reply #10 on:** August 09, 2009, 01:27:21 am

Hey Uncle Louie,
On the member rides-what's the green cylinder behind the air cleaner?

UncleErnie · **Reply #11 on:** August 09, 2009, 02:20:44 am

The new air filter- a dirt bike pod. I have the right-sized black Uni pod, but saw this and just had to put it on- just to be pervo I guess. There seems to be 2 air boxes, and the one with the filter in it was in the way of my feet (rear-sets), so I took iboth side boxes off. The pod filters the air into the secondary airbox, and everyone is happy.

Mr Cafe, spent the whole day with the AMCA Blue Ridge chapter on my sidecar today (wanted to take the Musketball, but-). I feel like I've been mugged in a blind alley, so sitting in front of left side of this miasma may be just the thing. If I can find the strength to lift a wrench...
I feel like the old routine; "I just flew in from Chicago..."

What the heck- here's a picture of Glen's '51 Chif next to my Beemer just prior to leaving.

UncleErnie · **Reply #12 on:** August 09, 2009, 06:04:27 pm

Running diary;
Using a socket to remove the alternator nut, everything moves. Finally put a thin wedge of hardwood between the chain and sprocket, put a pipe on the ratchet handle to extend the leverage, and gave it a sharp rap with a 4x4. Came right off.
I've inadvertantly discoveresd the inside of the alternator is made of VERY soft material. Thin aluminium? Hope that doesn't matter much- it's only a small disturbance. (I hope)
Now I can't figure out how to get the alternator off. I can see why a puller is necesary, but some say it's not. (Tapping with a rubber hammer is how I discovered the inside of the alternator) We shall see...

mbevo1 · **Reply #13 on:** August 10, 2009, 02:20:52 pm

Ernie -

I just removed all the starter stuff this weekend (one lazy kick and kickback locked her up).

I used a standard gear puller to get the alternator started. Just had to get it started, and it wiggled right off. I think I could have used my small Stanley pry bar, but didn't know how much force I'd have to put on it. Turns out, not much...

Mike and Stumpy in Michigan

UncleErnie · **Reply #14 on:** August 10, 2009, 03:20:54 pm

I tried a whammy bar from behind... thought about a good tap with a hammer, but I'm afraid of chipping the case. Especially the edges where the gasket sits.

UncleErnie · **Reply #15 on:** August 10, 2009, 07:52:32 pm

Went to Northern Tool and got an Harmonic Balance Puller. Had to get body washers and nuts seperately. (what the heck!). Took some wrench turning and hammer tapping, but the alternator popped off. The next nut to come off is a deep-well 1 1/4. Off to Northern Tool again.

The clutch springs came off no problem. Same with the retaining ring, which is bigger than I would have thought. The big nut in the middle is 7/8" and had no resistance to coming off. It is a nylock nut and the insert looks burned, so I am going to replace it (and get anothetr spare. From the looks of the washer, it has been loose for some time. Scary stuff. (When you go around checking nuts and bolts on a new bike, you don't really think of internal things like this...)

So far, everything is layed out on a cookie tin. I think for the next level, I'll get anothe tin, just so things don't get too jumbled up. Not looking forward to getting into whatever gears are in there, but hope it will be nothing to worry about.

UncleErnie · **Reply #16 on:** August 10, 2009, 10:30:31 pm

The big nut behind the alternator is 1 1/4' / 32mm. I can not get it off. I may have to trailer the bike to earl so I / we can use his impact driver. Wonder if i should use a torch there... ?

ERC · **Reply #17 on:** August 10, 2009, 11:29:45 pm

The best way to get the nut off is with an air gun. Ace said above about needing to have shims to set up the alternator when you reassemble it if this is an Electra there is no adjustment when you reassemble it. It lines up and bolts on. According to the manual I have. ERC

UncleErnie · **Reply #18 on:** August 11, 2009, 12:14:40 am

I have a "Classic" with the AVL engine. I assume the engines are the same as the Electra? At any rate, I'm assuming if I don't take shims off, I won't need shims to put in on re-assembly. Is that wrong?

Since it will be easier -for me- to try a torch first, I'm going totry that first. Otherwise, I'll have to pack the bike on a trailer just to get it to an air / impact wrench.

ERC · **Reply #19 on:** August 11, 2009, 01:15:53 am

The shims are used to set the distance between the rotor and the coils on the iron bullet. If you have the AVL you won't need to set any clearance on it.It should bolt right back on.I wouldn't try to heat anything with a torch the heat could possibly ruin the hardening on the crank or wreck the seal on the shaft in the motor. ERC

UncleErnie · **Reply #20 on:** August 11, 2009, 01:50:01 am

Well- that's good intl. Glen has an electric impact wrench- never heard of that before. I'll try that first, then. Thanks.

Blue Ridge Wheeltor · **Reply #21 on:** August 11, 2009, 03:45:13 am

Have you tried using a stick?
Oh wait, that's for aluminum tanks. Forgot.

UncleErnie · **Reply #22 on:** August 11, 2009, 04:25:36 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0PIdWdw15U

> tap tap tap <
Is this mike on?

REpozer · **Reply #23 on:** August 11, 2009, 06:55:11 pm

Used my E-start about 10 times yesterday, all is well.

UncleErnie · **Reply #24 on:** August 11, 2009, 09:31:08 pm

Keep your fingers crossed and your idle up.
Hmmm... bubmper sticker material there.

That impact wrench is a miracle; 1.5 seconds and the nut was in my hand! Incredible.

Tomorrow I'm at the gallry all day. Maybe the part will come in by Thursday. Still have more dismantling to do, though.

REpozer · **Reply #25 on:** August 13, 2009, 12:14:33 am

Yup, today is a kick start only day.

If I do this right , and of course follow the' 7 steps of coolness" I figure a sprag should last for years to come.

UncleErnie · **Reply #26 on:** August 13, 2009, 09:01:59 pm

Got my parts in today. I have no clue what I'm looking at. I assume it will become clear when I get the gears out.
BUT- I can't get the primary drive gears off. Got a puller on there, but nothing. Not budging. Maybe there's a circlip that manual doesn't mention?
It's hot again and Uncle Ernie wants this all done 2 days ago.

UncleErnie · **Reply #27 on:** August 14, 2009, 07:46:47 pm

   - FINAL REPORT -

Most of the time it takes is going to stores for this and that. I replaces a couple of bolts and nuts, for instance. Took me a long time to realizesome gears weren't going to come out until I lined up the teeth of the starter motor gears.
The old sprag looks looked good, but I put the new one in, anyway.
Added a quart of ATV, pushed the button and

   > NOTHING <

Earl kick-started it easily. Idles real pretty, too. He shut it off and pushed the button.

   > NOTHING <.

So, I put on my gloves and layed a phillips-head screwdriver across the posts of my NEW and improved warranty SOLENOID and it started right up. So, now I'm off to my local bike shop to buy a solenoid that will work- from Parts Unlimited.

The Garbone · **Reply #28 on:** August 14, 2009, 07:56:39 pm

Yikes......

Is it the solenoid or the starter button circuit?
Did you try jumpering from the + batt post to the starter lead on the noid?

UncleErnie · **Reply #29 on:** August 14, 2009, 11:43:28 pm

I doubt it's the starter button circuit because my new warranty solenoid worked for about 2 weeks. I got a soenoid at napa today. It's taking me some time to get the wire connections to fit.

Blue Ridge Wheeltor · **Reply #30 on:** August 15, 2009, 03:27:05 pm

Quote from: UncleErnie on August 14, 2009, 11:43:28 pm

I doubt it's the starter button circuit because my new warranty solenoid worked for about 2 weeks. I got a soenoid at napa today. It's taking me some time to get the wire connections to fit.

Ah, didn't you read the fine print on the directions sheet? The warranty on solenoids is 13 days. Sorry.

REpozer · **Reply #31 on:** August 19, 2009, 04:26:34 am

Now I'm really gettin scared of sprag failure.

This looks pretty involved.

There anint no Northern tool here.

Don't have no electric wrench either.

I'll have to improvise something with my "cheater bar" a hammer an pair pliers.

Maybe I can improvise a PTO off of my 1984 Ford 4x4 truck to power some kind of puller to remove the sprag. I just don't know.

Joe28 · **Reply #32 on:** August 19, 2009, 02:25:54 pm

I had my scoot for a whopping 10 days before mine went, like 300 miles!
The dealer was 3 hours away, so I bit the big one and got all the parts and did it myself, (like $400 smackers).
I think if you search this site, you'll find what EXACTLY I used and did.
I think it was basic tools, and air impact to get the really tight bolts off. (lazy old guy)
I'd say it took me like 45 minutes???
I also swapped out the ignition box for the green one at the time, and a LARGER front sprocket, (getting ready for the side car), heavy duty clutch springs.
I use 1 qt of ATF in the primary, and so far, (2000 miles) it's still in 1 piece!
(Did I just jinx myself)?

Joe
Fix it? Fix it? IS THAT what I'm supposed to do!?? All right, get me that BIG hammer then..........

UncleErnie · **Reply #33 on:** August 19, 2009, 03:22:47 pm

Joe Joe Joe

Oh Joe....

If by front spocket, you mean the counter-shaft sprocket -the one that comes out of the engine- why would you put a bigger one in there for a sidecar? That will reduce revs at speed, but give less torque in lower gears.

You meant the sprocket on the wheel- right?

Joe28 · **Reply #34 on:** August 21, 2009, 01:08:43 pm

UncleErnie, UncleErnie, UncleErnie,
Years ago the Army did a test with POWERFUL drugs on certain G.I.'s to try to make them smarter, and well, um, well, ahhhh, some of the drugs stayed in my system!

"LOOK OUT!!!!! IN COMMING"!

Ever since I hit my head..... or..... got abducted by aliens and the neighbors found me naked in a field behind my house, smeared in peanut butter, sometimes I get things backwards arsed.
I put a SMALLER sprocket on the front to increase torque off the line. (my rear sproket is part of my drum.... for now,( that's this winters project, get the removalable system).
Sorry for a minute, "LOOKOUT THERE IT IS AGAIN", I got confused!

Joe
My brain hurts

UncleErnie · **Reply #35 on:** August 21, 2009, 07:22:00 pm

Did you get the e-mail I sent? (just checking)

Joe28 · **Reply #36 on:** August 25, 2009, 03:18:24 pm

no?

??

UncleErnie · **Reply #37 on:** August 25, 2009, 03:22:03 pm

I used the address in your profile... I have a hard time seeing this small type, though. Send me an e-mail to my address so I can send a response and give you the whole story.

The Garbone · **Reply #38 on:** August 25, 2009, 05:19:51 pm

Ernie, try Ctrl+ to zoom in, it should help your font size issue...

UncleErnie · **Reply #39 on:** August 25, 2009, 08:06:38 pm

Get outta town on the first bus!
My stars- that scared me!

Thanks, though those yellow people's faces are kind of gruesome, aren't they?

REpozer · **Reply #40 on:** August 25, 2009, 11:19:17 pm

Uncle Ernie,
How long are you going to drag this project out?

Is your bike fixed ? Hows it running?

UncleErnie · **Reply #41 on:** August 26, 2009, 04:28:37 am

I'm actually quite humiliated to report the truth. However, I know you're somewhere in the wilds of Alaska with nothing but a can opener, so I will set down here for you only, what has transpired;

I tend to make various assumptions based on stupidity and inexperience. A fine example was sending to England for a rare and expensive coil, based on everything I read. The problem on that particular bike tuirned out to be a blocked jet that was subsequently cleaned out with the end of a guitar string. I think it may have been an "E" string.

so. First I have trouble starting the bike. My battery appears to be swell. From everything I read, and counsel from alleged experts, I become convinced it's the solenoid. So I get a new solenoid.

Blue Ridge Wheeltor · **Reply #42 on:** August 26, 2009, 04:35:32 am

... to be continued

UncleErnie · **Reply #43 on:** August 26, 2009, 04:50:47 am

Still having problems, and end up carrying a screwdriver to lay on the solenoid posts to start the bike. I have taken off the side boxes so the solenoid just hangs out for convenience.
Then, the bike stalls in a strange way. It barely starts up again. The next day it just won't start. From various things I've read, I become convinced my sprag went out for a pack of Camels and just never came back. Very sad. So- I get a new sprag clutch and Earl helps me put it in, commenting, "This doesn't look like anything is wrong..."
THE MUSKETBALL STILL WON'T START. So Earl wanders around with his little doo-dad with wires and a digital read-out. He looks at switches, tests the battery, sticks an alligator clip in one ear and the other drounded to the cylinder. nada.

Earl also works at a dealership. He says that a lot of small dealers put bikes on the floor, and when they do, they put gas in the tank and a charged battery in the bike. Who knows how long all this sits there.
So, an irritating person like me comes in and orders a bike not on the floor. When the new bike is uncrated, it needs a battery but who wants to spend the money on a new battery in times like this, so "Let's just use a battery from a bike on the floor!" ah-HAH!

So- now I have a new Yuasa from Parts Unlimited with no extra postage because I just picked it up from a local shop, and I took out that litttle jumper cable inside the casquette. Now my neutral light comes on, but I still need to pull the clutch to start the bike- and turn the lights on manually before getting on the road.

Not being an ace mechanic, I've worked from what I got to know from other specific bikes. A '48 Indian Chief or a '65 BMW R69S, I can pretty much diagnose what's going on with pretty good accuracy. This RE is totally new to me, and seems to need some things I never dreamed or thought about. I guess I'll be learning the hard way. Fortunately, I have good support around town, and here too.

To sum up; the bike is running fine in spite of my efforts to kill it with concern.

UncleErnie · **Reply #44 on:** August 26, 2009, 04:54:18 am

Of course I need to give a shout out full of gratitude to my biggest supporter and straight man Mr Blue Ridge Whealtor, whithout whom none of this would be possible.
Just ask him/

Blue Ridge Wheeltor · **Reply #45 on:** August 26, 2009, 12:36:27 pm

My battery died after 7 months too. I replaced it with a maintenence free battery from a place on the web- Yausa brand under another name. All my bikes are going to maintenance free batteries, worth the extra $$$$$.

UncleErnie · **Reply #46 on:** August 26, 2009, 12:50:35 pm

Some thoughts;
I have to wonder how many sprag clutches are replaced for the wrong reason?
My bike conked out, but I didn't hear any damage occur- no clanks, crunches, or bangs. Without the sound effects, I would recommend looking elsewhere first.

Mechanicals; The first nut on the alternator I got off by putting a pipe on the ratchet and giving a good whack. I really do think you'll need a harmanic balance remover to get the magnet off. It's dges are too curved for a gear puller to take hold, and it's made for this tool anyway. There are 2 holes in the back for this to happen. It is terribly cheap for a tooll, so there's really no reason not to get one on-line if you don't have any tool or auto supply stores within a reasonable distance. (you don't need a "special RE tool" ) That magnet is VERY SOFT, so don't try hitting it with a hammer to get it loose.

A 32mm deep-well socket is pretty much neccessary for the big un back there. Every tire shop and mechanic has an impact wrench of some kind- put the bike in a trailer and make friends. I could not get that nut off with Earl standing on the brake pedal. Maybe a 4 foot pipe as an extension to the ratchet and a good whack with a 4x4 would work?

The clutch side was easy enough, except to say the big nut was nylock and heat had melted the nylon insert. I replaces the big washer and nut with an equally big (extra thick) washer and used a regular nut with a lock washer and blue loc-tite.

UncleErnie · **Reply #47 on:** August 26, 2009, 12:53:35 pm

Mr BRW, that is a good idea. However, I hope I won't have to make that purchase decision for another 3 years.

REpozer · **Reply #48 on:** August 26, 2009, 02:51:54 pm

Thanks Uncle Ernie,

When I read these post , it could be me.

My riding season is about 5 months, so I don't get the miles on my bike as some do.

I have a decent set of craftsman , Haber freight , air tools,and a Briggs& straton factory tool set. So I'm better off then some .

Hope all works well and you have mild winter so you can ride.

UncleErnie · **Reply #49 on:** August 26, 2009, 03:42:08 pm

Hah! I got the impression you were working with half a pair of pliers, a bent screwdriver, and a sterling silver spoon your grandmother left to you. Sounds like your doing better than me.

So what do you do up there? Count snowflakes for the government? CIA mental stability testing under white-out conditions?
You might have a lot to talk about with Blue Ridge Whealtor. He tracks the geneology of the mildew in his bathroom for fun and profit.
Says his agent is negotiating a lucrative book deal.

Blue Ridge Wheeltor · **Reply #50 on:** August 26, 2009, 04:20:18 pm

hmmmm

Blue Ridge Wheeltor · **Reply #51 on:** August 26, 2009, 04:29:57 pm

Actually, ~~Uncle Festus~~, i mean Uncle Ernie, is the "go to" person for mods on the AVL Enfield. His tinkering is well known in these parts and he has an instructional video that may be of some help. I will search for it.

Blue Ridge Wheeltor · **Reply #52 on:** August 26, 2009, 04:32:21 pm

Lucky me, i found it. here you see him tinkering with his latest project with his faithful sidekick. Can't remember the other guys name, but I think he rides a silver Enfield and is from georgia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPuWX7d7yEw

REpozer · **Reply #53 on:** August 26, 2009, 04:33:12 pm

Hmmm, book deal???

Yes....." The Yarns and Yurns of a Rambler"

My editor's eyes glaze over...." I 'll get back to you on that'!

Blue Ridge Wheeltor · **Reply #54 on:** August 26, 2009, 04:39:58 pm

Quote from: REpozer on August 26, 2009, 04:33:12 pm

Hmmm, book deal???

Yes....." The Yarns and Yurns of a Rambler"

My editor's eyes glaze over...." I 'll get back to you on that'!

Never had a Rambler, had a few Studebakers though.

UncleErnie · **Reply #55 on:** August 26, 2009, 05:01:16 pm

Now he's using a video camera...
Well- you notice my bike doesn't leak anywhere.

Can't believe they actually popped popcorn a few months back. (hey- I made a funny!)

Anyhoo- I can fight fahr with fahr. Here's cousin Bernie after the news he got his study grant from the gubmint. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ84vb1f7M4

I'm officially abandoning this thread now.

Blue Ridge Wheeltor · **Reply #56 on:** August 26, 2009, 06:24:38 pm

Aw, cmon. It was just getting to be fun.

I swung thru bike night last yesterdat at Sonics, but ther were all harley posers, so I didn't stop. When are you going to show up?

UncleErnie · **Reply #57 on:** August 26, 2009, 06:48:44 pm

Usually Glen asks me that. Is this a weekly event at the same place?

Blue Ridge Wheeltor · **Reply #58 on:** August 26, 2009, 07:29:37 pm

Every tuesday night at Sonics in Hendersonville, across from wal Mart.