Author Topic: Sneak Peek! Ace Spin-On Oil Filter Kit for Bullet  (Read 11689 times)

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ace.cafe

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on: August 05, 2009, 05:13:09 pm
Greetings!

I've got a few pics of a prototype in the middle stages of development.
It's an "add-on" Spin-on Oil Filter Kit for use as an in-line filter in the external oil line of the Bullet.

I haven't finished it up yet, and it needs cosmetic work and testing.
But, the basic concept is viewable, and you can see the filter and mounting system, and the hose connections for inlet and outlet, and where the item is located on the bike, and basically how it looks.
I plan a silver and black color scheme on it.
It should look pretty vintage when I'm done, considering it is a spin-on filter

The filter is from a 2000-2005 Toyota Camry. This filter is available from virtually all filter makers, so you can select the brand you like. They are inexpensive.
It's very small, as you can see in the photo. I try to make my stuff as small as I can, and still be useful, so that it doesn't dominate the appearance of the bike, but adds function.

I'm very happy with the way it's coming out so far.
The outlet elbow is a swivel head, so it can be rotated to point up or out or down, depending on what your needs are. I'm feeding my outet to my oil cooler on the other side of the bike, so I pointed my outlet elbow over toward that.
I think it should be usable for both KS and ES versions, with the swivel versatility. I haven't checked the fit on an E-start. It does have some flexibility in mounting position, to a certain degree, so I think it can accommodate all the possibilities.

The photos look like it comes close the the exhaust, but there's plenty of room. It's about midway between the exhaust pipe and the frame downtube. No problem for heat issues from the exhaust pipe.

Here are the pics:
Remember this is not "dressed up" yet! It's just a "try-fit" on the bike of the early proto, and it will look better when it's done.

Side view, off the bike, with a pack of smokes for size comparison.



Side view, installed on the bike.(Hoses not connected, just physical mounting).



Front view on the bike.




Now, this is a pretty labor-intensive item to make. It will cost more than the spin-on adapters made for cars by the millions in China. This is a hand made item.
I'm just hoping that it being custom made for a Bullet, and having the unique look and small size will carry the day for Bullet owners.

Do we like the basic concept?

« Last Edit: August 05, 2009, 05:20:12 pm by ace.cafe »
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geoffbaker

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Reply #1 on: August 05, 2009, 05:20:08 pm
ace, you really are quite the engineer!

looks great :)


Chasfield

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Reply #2 on: August 05, 2009, 05:38:25 pm
Would it supplement or replace the regular furry timing case oil filter?

The advantage of the stock installation is that  it is in just the right place to nab any grot that is making its way to the big end.

I can see that a proper spin on cartridge one would be way better at picking up the fine stuff.
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ace.cafe

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Reply #3 on: August 05, 2009, 05:45:11 pm
Would it supplement or replace the regular furry timing case oil filter?

The advantage of the stock installation is that  it is in just the right place to nab any grot that is making its way to the big end.

I can see that a proper spin on cartridge one would be way better at picking up the fine stuff.

It would supplement the original oil filter.
You're correct about the original oil filter being in the right place to protect the crank.
So, that should be left in place, and changed as usual.

What this system adds, aside from the obvious protection of the top end from contamination, is that all the oil  passes through it, since it is in the oil circuit, and it will catch what the crude Bullet standard filter will not catch.
So, with this in the oil line, all the oil is filtered down to a better level, even though this filtering happens at a different place in the oil circuit.

The result is that the oil will be cleaner everywhere in the engine.
And it's very easy to change, and inexpensive to change.
There will also be some amount of oil cooling provided by this system, due to the surface area of the spin-on filter can in the airstream.
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plane95302

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Reply #4 on: August 05, 2009, 06:04:42 pm
I like.


single

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Reply #5 on: August 05, 2009, 07:22:00 pm
This is good.I like the location as the spill won't go on the bike.Wix filters are black.Um,what's next?I have noticed that K&N filters will not cause as much pressure drop as others.By the way,Chevy built their reputation with an engine that carried 15 psi oil pressure,and none to the crank.55 mph cruise was supposed to be tops.Would run about 75 tho.Sound familiar?


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Reply #6 on: August 05, 2009, 11:19:11 pm
  Ace you the man, that should do the trick to remove fine grit.  So when's this beauty going to be ready for us commoners?  Soon these old beauties will have all the ammenities of their newer, less traveled siblings.  Mighty nice.  Will.
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PaulF

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Reply #7 on: August 06, 2009, 12:50:29 am
Ace, fantastic. One suggestion. Why not mount the oil cooler below the filter, on the mount, and make it an all-in-one.



clay

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Reply #8 on: August 06, 2009, 02:10:06 am
MMMMMMM Looks like a KS model there.Might not fit rhe ES in that location
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Reply #9 on: August 06, 2009, 02:35:56 am
I am guessing here but i think that by the time the oil has returned to the the oil pump the filtration system will have captured 90% of anything bigger than 30 microns.

30 Microns = 0.0011811023622047244 Inches.

 In short what ever is left should pass just about harmlessly between everything even roller bearings in the performance crank shaft kit. (.0017” running clearance )










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ace.cafe

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Reply #10 on: August 06, 2009, 03:11:56 am
MMMMMMM Looks like a KS model there.Might not fit rhe ES in that location

Well, I have a KS Bullet, so I always prototype on that.

I think that it will go on the ES models too. The hose fittings are slightly outboard of the starter motor, and can also be positioned slightly below the starter motor. If the filter is used without the cooler on the left side, the angle fitting(outlet) can be rotated on its swivel upward, and a hose connected to the oil line going to the head. The smaller inlet fitting can take the hose from the oil pump end of the oil line. So, for normal installations without the oil cooler in the loop, it should fit.
For use with the oil cooler, it's a matter of if the hose will fit under the starter motor. From looking at pics, it looks like it has a good shot at getting under there. There is about 1/2" of adjustability in the mounting system, which I think will accommodate use with the ES bikes. If the hose can't get under the starter motor, the outlet fitting can be swiveled upward,and the hose can be routed  over, or in front of the starter motor.
There's enough flexibility in the mount and the swivel fitting feature, so that I think it will be ok.

It will need a "try-fit" on an ES to be sure of the fit.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 03:18:46 am by ace.cafe »
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The Garbone

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Reply #11 on: August 06, 2009, 03:14:34 am
Hmm,  could be mounted on the left and maybe put one of these on it...

http://home.roadrunner.com/~bikepics/cooler.htm

Or do those things not work well for cooling...
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ace.cafe

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Reply #12 on: August 06, 2009, 03:24:47 am
Ace, fantastic. One suggestion. Why not mount the oil cooler below the filter, on the mount, and make it an all-in-one.



Paul,
It really could have several different places where it could be mounted.
I chose the spot that you see in the pics, because it was the least obtrusive location, and did not hang below the engine and limit the ground clearance, and wasn't hanging out in front so far as to look strange.

While it's not real visible in the oil cooler pics, there are mounting struts behind that which get in the way of mounting the filter housing in tight under there. So,then it would stick out front, and be very low, and those are some issues that I preferred to avoid.

As with anything, there are some positives and negatives to any design decision, and I had to make some choices which I felt would add up to the most effective overall result. So, that's where it ended up.

For a person who doesn't have the oil cooler on the primary side, the mounting system is actually "ambidextrous", and can be mirror-imaged for use on the primary side too. If a person has room  there, then it could just as well be mounted on the primary side in the same fashion that you see in my pics, except mirror imaged.
However, it is likely that on ES bikes, the sprag "hump" on the primary would be in the way. I think that for a KS bike, the primary side mounting would work with no problem at all.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 03:29:52 am by ace.cafe »
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ace.cafe

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Reply #13 on: August 06, 2009, 03:41:08 am
  Ace you the man, that should do the trick to remove fine grit.  So when's this beauty going to be ready for us commoners?  Soon these old beauties will have all the ammenities of their newer, less traveled siblings.  Mighty nice.  Will.

Thanks Will.

I should be able to finish up this working prototype and be testing it by the weekend, if the weather holds out.

As far as commercial availablity, I'll do a similar thing with this as with the other stuff. I'll sell some prototype orders, and hopefully CMW will also want to pick up this item for the catalog, and then I'll make a short production run for them.

I can tell you that this is alot harder for me to make than the other stuff I've been producing, and will take some time for me to make each one. So, I think we're looking at around 2 week delivery time, from the time an order is placed.
And unfortunately, because it is labor intensive, the price isn't going to be real cheap either.

What I want to do is make a few of them, and see how well that I can streamline the construction process, so that I can base a selling price from that. I don't want to base a selling price from my prototype construction time, because the first one is always the hardest to do. Let's see how good I can get at it, and then see how much I'll need to get for them.

Right now, I'm hoping that I can keep the price under $100. Maybe I can.
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ace.cafe

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Reply #14 on: August 06, 2009, 01:35:37 pm
Hmm,  could be mounted on the left and maybe put one of these on it...

http://home.roadrunner.com/~bikepics/cooler.htm

Or do those things not work well for cooling...

Yes, as I mentioned, the bracket is "ambidextrous", so it can be mounted on the left in front of the primary, if you have room there for it. The ES "hump" might be in the way.

I think that the finned clamp around the filter will do some cooling too. If you prefer to have that instead of a full-blown oil cooler, that will help.
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Reply #15 on: August 06, 2009, 03:00:43 pm
  Cool, will give me something to save up for.  I just know I'd been toying with the idea of an external spin on filter the muslin wrapped sleeve isn't exactly awe inspiring, suppose it does alright but like my dad always said there are 2 components on a vehicle that can never have to much capacity, one is the oil filter the other is the battery.

  Keep us posted on your findings.  Will.
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ace.cafe

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Reply #16 on: August 10, 2009, 12:08:04 am
Well, I'm still working on it.

Made some progress on the prototype this weekend.
It's slow going. Very tedious and time consuming detail work.
I also decided to paint and detail the filter element, just because I wanted to.

But anyway, it's ready to go on the bike now.
I have to wait a few days for the paint to fully cure, before I can install it and run it.
I styled it to go with my black DeLuxe.
I plan to put some kind of logo or decal  on the bottom area.

Here's the latest pic.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 12:26:30 am by ace.cafe »
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Reply #17 on: August 10, 2009, 01:30:07 am
Does the filter have an antidrainback valve.I would think if it doesn't ,if it drains back depending how you mount it even with it's small size at times could cut back on oil reaching the top end.Resulting in faster wear to those components.  ERC
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ace.cafe

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Reply #18 on: August 10, 2009, 01:45:48 am
Does the filter have an antidrainback valve.I would think if it doesn't ,if it drains back depending how you mount it even with it's small size at times could cut back on oil reaching the top end.Resulting in faster wear to those components.  ERC

*Edited to update:*
Yes, it was found in BRW's post down below that it does have an anti-drainback vavle as part of the filter element itself.

« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 01:24:42 pm by ace.cafe »
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Reply #19 on: August 10, 2009, 02:52:42 am
I used a filter mount from a Harley big twin and mounted it where Ace has his cooler. I put my filter straight up so I can fill it before installing, then I pull off the hose going to the rockers and kick it by hand until I get oil coming out. Ithen put the hose back on and start it up. Works well and no possibility of drain-back issues. I'd post some pictures if I could... but for some reason this forum won't accept them from me.


ace.cafe

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Reply #20 on: August 10, 2009, 02:58:13 am
If a person wanted to mount my filter system down low, with a more vertical orientation, that is possible with my mount.

If you notice, there is a 2nd hole drilled in the lower-right area of the "teardrop" portion of the mount.
This hole can be located on a different stud on the front motor mount, and that will give you a low mounting option with vertical or slanted orientation of the filter.

I opted for the higher mount, because I felt more comfortable with the filter up higher.
But, there is a "built-in" option for low mounting that is inherent in the mount that I am using. The other hole drilled in the mount is what you'd use for that.

Or, you could choose another location entirely, and figure out a way to use my bracket for that. It's got some flexibility in mounting options, and can be mounted easily on either side of the bike, too.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 03:03:36 am by ace.cafe »
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Reply #21 on: August 10, 2009, 03:06:33 am
Ace

Nice touch with the black and the gold accents!

I have been busy getting my last off to college but have been following both your cooler and fitler projects. Nice stuff.

I hope to be up your way on a ride soon, I will call you when I have a date.

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Reply #22 on: August 10, 2009, 03:28:55 am
Ace,
The camry filter itself has an ADBV on it.
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Reply #23 on: August 10, 2009, 11:44:37 am
Here are some specs for the filter.

By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI:     8-11
Anti-Drain Back Valve:    Yes
Burst Pressure-PSI:    400
Max Flow Rate:    7-9 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating:    21
  21 Microns = 0.000826771653543307 Inches !!!!
 
 A word about bypass valve settings. Some cut and paste

The Filter By-Pass Valve

If a full-flow filter becomes "clogged", or excessively restrictive to oil flow, the filter by-pass valve ensures continued engine lubrication by allowing the oil to by-pass the filter.  By-pass Valve Assembly -- spring loaded valve assembly that allows oil to by-pass the element under high-differential pressure conditions such as cold oil and/or excessively contaminated media. This allows lubrication of the engine, but without full-flow filtration.
   


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ace.cafe

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Reply #24 on: August 10, 2009, 01:21:14 pm
Ace,
The camry filter itself has an ADBV on it.

Cool!
I didn't even notice that before.

Thanks!
I guess that solves that issue.
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ace.cafe

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Reply #25 on: August 10, 2009, 01:44:42 pm
It should be noted here that this filter element is for the Camry models that use the American thread size of 3/4"-16 for the center thread.
It is not the metric threaded model.

My fitting is 3/4"-16 threads.
The filter seals the threads on an internal O-ring that I have on my filter housing unit, when the filter is spun-on and tightened, so that it is O-ring sealed on the perimeter AND on the center threaded fitting.
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ace.cafe

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Reply #26 on: August 10, 2009, 05:22:51 pm
Ok, for you guys that like a low mounted filter option, here's the same mount with the swivel plate swung around to a suitable position, and mounted low and forwards.
No modifications needed to the unit to achieve this position, and it can even be adjusted a little in this position to vary the angle.
I don't know if this mounting will clear all exhaust systems, but it can be done with the exact same mounting procedure on the primary side too, if you want to.

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Reply #27 on: August 10, 2009, 09:47:05 pm
Ace

If I missed this question being asked I'm sorry, but do you plan on keeping the oem filter or removing it and only going with the new external filter?

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Reply #28 on: August 10, 2009, 10:34:13 pm
I like the idea of both.
 The O.E.M. filter to catch the really big stuff and the  A.C.E unit to to complete the process.

 Also if the A.C.E. filter were suffer damage on the trail It would be a simple matter to by pass it and continue on with O.E.M. filter.
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ace.cafe

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Reply #29 on: August 10, 2009, 11:00:17 pm
Quote from: BigDon  link=topic=5027.msg57780#msg57780 date=1249937225
Ace

If I missed this question being asked I'm sorry, but do you plan on keeping the oem filter or removing it and only going with the new external filter?

Don

I think it's best to have both.
Here's why:
We have a dry sump system with 2 oil pumps.
The feed pump takes oil from the tank and feeds the crank. This needs a filter on it(which it has in stock form) to filter out anything that might have been sucked-up into the oil line from the oil tank(or anywhere else) before that oil goes to the bearings.
The return pump takes  oil from the sump, and pumps it up to the top end. There is no filter normally there, so if anything does get picked-up from the sump, nothing filters it out until it goes back thru the feed pump again.

And the regular oil filter is pretty porous anyway(especially in the old Iron Bullets), but at least it's better than nothing, and can catch some bigger stuff.

With the additional finer-grade filter in the return line, the head is protected from grit better, and any oil that has contamination particles smaller than the stock filter can pick-up, will be caught in the spin-on filter.
So, as the oil circulates thru both filters, the cleanliness of the oil will be a much cleaner overall condition than with the stock filter alone.

Now, I'm not gonna say that a person "HAS" to have this extra filter, nor that their engine is going to have problems if they don't have it, or anything like that.
This is just an improvement in oil filtering for those who want it, and desire finer filtering of the sediment levels in their oil. It would generally be expected that longer bearing life and longer life of oiled parts would be a benefit of improved filtering.
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Reply #30 on: August 11, 2009, 03:54:16 pm

Ace,

What is the reason the mounting bracket is so large at the bottom. It seems there is alot of unnecessary/unused metal. Could it be streamlined or is there balancing/pivoting issues?


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ace.cafe

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Reply #31 on: August 11, 2009, 04:02:22 pm
Ace,

What is the reason the mounting bracket is so large at the bottom. It seems there is alot of unnecessary/unused metal. Could it be streamlined or is there balancing/pivoting issues?


Ed

Ed,
That could be cut off if desired.
I thought about making it shorter, but it offered some bracketing area for other bracketing options to bolt it on in different spots, and it was the way I had it on the original concept prototype for styling.
After looking at it for awhile, I sort of liked the look of that tear-drop piece on there. It gave it some appeal that looked vintage to me, and it's a little spot to put a logo or emblem on it too.

I guess it's just a personal taste thing. I like it.
If somebody hates it badly enough, it can be cut off.
If a person  wanted to order one, and specified they don't want that on there, I'd make one without it.

It doesn't really have to be there for function, if you mount it in the way I designed.
But, I like that look. That's really all there is to it.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2009, 04:19:16 pm by ace.cafe »
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ace.cafe

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Reply #32 on: August 16, 2009, 10:08:43 pm
Update on the Spin-On Oil Filter Kit.

I've installed the kit, and been riding with it.
It works, is tested, no leaks, flows properly, and is good to go.

Here's a few pics of the installation.
Includes a shot of the hose connections.
Let me tell you folks, installations don't get any cleaner than this.
Shortest hose routing, most compact placement, no vibration issues, nice and secure.
It's as clean as a whistle.

Close-up shot of the unit with hoses connected




Front angle view, so you can see the clearance away from the exhaust. Nicely spaced, and tidy.




And the whole bike parked on the side of the road, for a complete view



I'm waiting for some parts to come in, so I can work on a few more of these.
I also have a "Plan B" for a slightly simpler model that could be more easily produced, in case this one turns out to be too expensive to make.
When I get that done, I'll post pics of that too, and we can have options to select from what we like.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2009, 10:13:14 pm by ace.cafe »
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Blue Ridge Wheeltor

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Reply #33 on: August 16, 2009, 11:24:19 pm
You should get one of those Ace air cleaners for your bike. i heard they are pretty good.
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ace.cafe

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Reply #34 on: August 16, 2009, 11:36:09 pm
You should get one of those Ace air cleaners for your bike. i heard they are pretty good.

Heh! :D
Yes, they are!

However, I'm using that strange-looking tuned-resonance ram-air intake that nobody wanted, and went over like a lead balloon.
That's okay though, because that was what caused me to make the Ace Air Filter, after I learned what people wanted.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2009, 11:40:00 pm by ace.cafe »
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Reply #35 on: August 16, 2009, 11:38:48 pm
  So Ace what's the main difference between the DeLuxe version and Economy version filter set-up?  Inquiring minds want to know.  Will.
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2000 Victory V92SC
1976 Suzuki GT185 Rebuilder Special..AKA (Junkyard Dog)
Many, many other toys.
The garage is full.


ace.cafe

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Reply #36 on: August 16, 2009, 11:47:40 pm
  So Ace what's the main difference between the DeLuxe version and Economy version filter set-up?  Inquiring minds want to know.  Will.

I haven't prototyped it up yet, Will.
But, I have some of the stuff, and I'm waiting for fittings to come in.

It's basically a disc that is the same diameter as the filter element. No overhang on the edges.
I'm contemplating a simple "L-bracket" attached to the disc, to facilitate a simple mounting point to any 5/16(7-8mm) bolt location.
It's basically the same concept as the other, but the labor is less, and the parts are less.
And it will look a bit more basic, but functional.
I estimate that I could make it for about half what the other costs to make.
It will use the same filter element, and performance would be identical.
Just a bit easier on me to make it, and some reduced parts cost.
Maybe people will like that one even better. I don't know. Sometimes what I think I like, isn't the same as what other people like.
In that case, it would be cheaper, and people might like it better too.
Who knows?

The parts won't be in till at least Wednesday, so I won't have anything to photograph till probably the end of the week.
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1Blackwolf1

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Reply #37 on: August 16, 2009, 11:50:00 pm
  Sounds like a plan, I'll wait for a picture then decide which to run with.  Will.
Will Morrison
2007 500 Military
2000 Kawasaki Drifter 1500
2000 Victory V92SC
1976 Suzuki GT185 Rebuilder Special..AKA (Junkyard Dog)
Many, many other toys.
The garage is full.


Ice

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Reply #38 on: August 22, 2009, 12:11:16 pm
Any updates on the new model for us Ace.?
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ace.cafe

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Reply #39 on: August 22, 2009, 01:08:45 pm
te author=Ice link=topic=5027.msg59363#msg59363 date=1250939476]
Any updates on the new model for us Ace.?
[/quote]

Ice,
Nothing yet on the newer model.
The parts haven't come in yet, and I don't know what's taking so long with that, but until I can get the fittings, I can't do anything on oil filters.
I've been pretty busy anyway, with finishing up some orders from last week, and some other activities, so I probably wouldn't have been able to make anything anyhow.

I hope that next week will allow me to get a prototype made in the other version.

From as far as I can tell, there's no interest whatsoever in the original one that is shown here on this thread.
Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree.
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Ice

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Reply #40 on: August 22, 2009, 02:37:22 pm
Thanks for the update Ace.
Myself and I think others may be waiting to see V 1.1 on this one before making a decision. ;)
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Chasfield

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Reply #41 on: August 22, 2009, 08:39:31 pm
I heard that  Microsoft saw Ace's air filter design and launched a V2.0 rival set up for Bullets.

We were assured that it would work fine on any standard 500 model, but it turns out that the bike won't run above 40 mph until you've bored the motor out to 612cc, added a racing grade crank with 11 to 1 piston and bolted on a gas flowed big valve cylinder head.

And even then it's no faster than a standard 350.

 :D

Just noticed I am in the oil filter thread. Ah, a quality gag is a quality gag!
« Last Edit: August 22, 2009, 08:49:31 pm by Chasfield »
2001 500 Bullet Deluxe


Ice

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Reply #42 on: August 23, 2009, 04:33:23 am
I heard that  Microsoft saw Ace's air filter design and launched a V2.0 rival set up for Bullets.

We were assured that it would work fine on any standard 500 model, but it turns out that the bike won't run above 40 mph until you've bored the motor out to 612cc, added a racing grade crank with 11 to 1 piston and bolted on a gas flowed big valve cylinder head.

And even then it's no faster than a standard 350.

 :D

Just noticed I am in the oil filter thread. Ah, a quality gag is a quality gag!

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Br Chasfield ! I needed that.
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ace.cafe

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Reply #43 on: August 27, 2009, 05:12:37 pm
Update on delay of 2nd version of the spin-on oil filter kit.

The company which claimed to have placed my order for the hydraulic fittings I needed, didn't follow thru, and I have just re-ordered today, in an attempt to get these parts in.
Hopefully, the parts will actually come in next week, and I can proceed.

If anybody is still interested, that is.
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1Blackwolf1

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Reply #44 on: August 27, 2009, 05:16:16 pm
  Let me know, Will.
Will Morrison
2007 500 Military
2000 Kawasaki Drifter 1500
2000 Victory V92SC
1976 Suzuki GT185 Rebuilder Special..AKA (Junkyard Dog)
Many, many other toys.
The garage is full.


Ice

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Reply #45 on: August 28, 2009, 12:40:30 am
  Let me know, Will.

Me too. Still interested.
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ace.cafe

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Reply #46 on: September 14, 2009, 06:29:40 pm
Okay.
I got the hydraulic fittings and stuff in, finally!
Yay!!!!

So, I've assembled the Spin-On Oil Filter Kit, Ver. 2.0, and I should have some pictures up by tomorrow after it's painted.

It's very small. It's as small as it could possibly get.
No larger in diameter than the actual filter, and very low-profile.
2-studs are on the top plate, for attaching bracket plates. Should be a very simple and straightforward procedure to mount this wherever you want to.

We'll see how you like it after I post the pics.
I can do this one for about half of what the other one would cost.
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1Blackwolf1

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Reply #47 on: September 14, 2009, 10:33:11 pm
  And i was just starting to wonder when they would be unveiled , feel like a kid waiting for the comic book store to open.  Will.
Will Morrison
2007 500 Military
2000 Kawasaki Drifter 1500
2000 Victory V92SC
1976 Suzuki GT185 Rebuilder Special..AKA (Junkyard Dog)
Many, many other toys.
The garage is full.