Author Topic: Chain (Read 3744 times)

Geirskogul · **on:** July 21, 2009, 05:35:30 am

So, adjusted my chain the other week as it was a bit too loose (would "slap" on acceleration pretty badly), and now two weeks later I hear what's almost a grinding noise from the chain/front sprocket area. I first noticed it when slowing down from 30 down to a stop, feels almost like there is a really, really bad wheel bearing or something was dragging in the rear brake.

I put the bike up on the centerstand on a block of wood tonight, and when I spin the rear wheel it's almost like there's a ratchet noise from the front sprocket. The tire doesn't really spin as freely as I think it should (or it did), but that could be just my mind. The noise is kind of a mix between a bicycle ratcheting mechanism, and just mechanical noise (like just the noise of the chain bedding into the gears); it's hard to pin down, but it's not crazy loud. The noise the the same spinning the tire both forwards and backwards, and doesn't make any noise if I spin it REALLY slowly.

I inspected it with a flashlight and feelers to be sure there wasn't any gravel in the chain, and the chain has about 1-1 1/4 inch freeplay in the center, depending on what part of the chain I push up as I spin it around (I was told to check it in multiple spots). The rear chain guard isn't loose or contacting it either, as I was hoping.

As I said, feels like a bad wheel bearing, but on inspection noise comes from the rear primary/sprocket area, just started these past two days, keep chain lubed with dupont teflon lube, 600 miles on the bike, what do you think? Too Tight? Too Loose? Sprag bits in primary? Let me know

Geirskogul · **Reply #1 on:** July 21, 2009, 08:28:34 am

When riding I would describe it as "growly." Perfect word for it. At first I thought I had a bad big end bearing.

PhilJ · **Reply #2 on:** July 21, 2009, 11:52:46 am

Seems 1-1/14 is way too much slack. I think it supposed to be around 3/8 with your weight on the bike, but check your manual.

UncleErnie · **Reply #3 on:** July 21, 2009, 02:33:34 pm

Yep- WITH YOU ON THE BIKE, or someone who weighs close to you.
I once ate up an Indian transmission because the chain was too tight.

I can't check chain tension by myself. Every time I think I need to tighten it up, I go to a shop and have Dave check it for me as I sit on the bike.

Geirskogul · **Reply #4 on:** July 21, 2009, 06:09:44 pm

I loosened the chain a bit, just for kicks, but it still makes the same noise. Maybe it never was as smooth as I thought and it's just in my head, because it still makes the noise when looser.

Ice · **Reply #5 on:** July 21, 2009, 06:35:00 pm

I hope it is not transmission bearings.

1Blackwolf1 · **Reply #6 on:** July 21, 2009, 07:00:36 pm

Guess it may be the time to open the primary and have a look. Also your chain shouldn't have great differences in slack as you check it in several different areas. Like it shouldn't be 1/2' one spot and 1" at another spot. Never used straight teflon lube on a chain, always used chain wax. Might be you are hearing roller against pin noise. I know from industrial maintenance dry lube doesn't give any lubricant that sticks for great periods of time. I'd go find a can of chain wax and give that a try first. Will.

PhilJ · **Reply #7 on:** July 21, 2009, 07:02:25 pm

You loosened the chain from 1 1/4. That's way too loose.

ERC · **Reply #8 on:** July 21, 2009, 11:06:54 pm

I've got almost 4000 mi. on mine and have always used Dupont teflon with no trouble,I don't think thats why you have the noise.Are you sure the chain after adjusting is still in alignment?If it's not you could get a noise from that. ERC

Laurence · **Reply #9 on:** July 22, 2009, 01:05:53 am

before looking into all the awful things it might be and taking things apart, check that the chain guard is not rubbing against the chain somewhere.

Geirskogul · **Reply #10 on:** July 22, 2009, 02:57:43 am

Chain guard is fine. I heard somewhere that too loose is better than too tight, so I left it at 1 inch for now. Tightening it up just made the noise worse. I'll check the countersprocket shaft bearings this weekend (if there are countershaft sprocket bearings, that is) for play, though there's no up/down play that I can feel by trying to move the sprocket around, or side to side play.

When you say "roller against pin noise" you mean just normal chain/sprocket noise, right? Or is something lost in translation from mechainic -> me?

UncleErnie · **Reply #11 on:** July 22, 2009, 03:30:25 am

I don't know how many miles you have, but maybe it would be a good idea to check the primary chain? Is the noise coming from inside the case maybe?

Geirskogul · **Reply #12 on:** July 22, 2009, 05:45:14 am

No, did another ride home from a friend's house tonight - definitely chain noise. Maybe I've just aligned it badly twice in a row? I do remember the stock snail cam adjusters being way way out of whack, but the bike tracked straight and didn't make any funky noises. Well, no better time than now to learn how to align a bike. Honestly it sounds like something hitting the chain up front (nothing by the chain guard area - I've triple checked) but I don't see anything. I'm hoping it's alignment.

Well, not now. Tomorrow before work, maybe. Loosening the big nut, castle nut, brake adjuster rod nut, brake base nut (the one that's in front of the castle one I assume) and the brake "pointer" nuts is a bit much to do quickly tonight. It's dark and I'm tired.

PhilJ · **Reply #13 on:** July 22, 2009, 11:57:05 am

The adjusters should be marked from the factory. They may not be even but the relationship between the adjusters should be maintained.

1Blackwolf1 · **Reply #14 on:** July 22, 2009, 12:03:41 pm

That'swhat I meant. So you now know what chain noise is. If there is also a grinding/crunching sound with it it's probably that the chain and front sprocket are not aligned. The snails are not the best method of alignment, they are reasonably close and will do on the road if you have to change a tire. The string method is much more accurate. And good chain lube helps quiet that noise/cut down chain wear. Unless you have put on O-ring chain when you get this nailed down I'd still suggest some form of wet lube that will stay with the chain/get into the rollers. Chain wax (the real stuff) has a cosmoline type lubricant (hard wax) that coats the pins and rollers, and is water repellant won't sling off easily. Used it since the 80's haven't had a noisy chain since. Good Luck, Will.

Geirskogul · **Reply #15 on:** July 22, 2009, 06:30:43 pm

I"ll see what I can do now that I'm awake. I found a neat way to align the chain online somewhere, akin to clamping a straight-edge (like a small level bar) to the rear sprocket - it will easily show if it's not aligned with the chain or front sprocket, as long as the straight-edge is straight.

EDIT: Well, aligned it as best I could (six foot aluminum levels FTW!) and made sure that everything was buttoned up, and lubricated it with engine oil, because it was handy (read: within arm's reach). Seems to be much quieter, and I don't see any uneven wear on the sprocket or chain, like wear on one side of the sprocket or peaking of the teeth or anything, so I'm hoping it was just lubrication and misalignment. Did not know they could be that noisy

Laurence · **Reply #16 on:** July 22, 2009, 08:08:48 pm

PhilJ wrote: "Seems 1-1/14 is way too much slack. I think it supposed to be around 3/8 with your weight on the bike, but check your manual." Snidal book suggests around 1 /14" as correct (with a rider on the seat), but that it's not a "black and white issue."

On my 2008 AVL it's about 1 1/4 without a rider, and when I shorten the rear wheel distance by only one notch on the cams the chain tightens to about 1/2 inch. That seems awfully tight, given Snidal's advice that it just shouldn't be loose enough to slip off the rear sprocket when you hit a good bump and bottom out the suspension.

1Blackwolf1 · **Reply #17 on:** July 22, 2009, 11:04:57 pm

Dry metal rolling against dry metal at speed can be very noisy. Learned all about primary/final drive chain maintenance from my pop, all those old H-D's he had and never seemed to adjust the chain much or have much noise. had him teach me the "ropes" on my first Triumph. He used cosmoline grease heated up and shot on the chain for lube and checked his chain about every 1000 miles. And my pop drove a bike, he didn't ride one. He used an oak 2 X 4 to check alignment. Think you got it together for the future. Will.

PhilJ · **Reply #18 on:** July 23, 2009, 02:28:07 am

Quote from: Laurence on July 22, 2009, 08:08:48 pm

PhilJ wrote: "Seems 1-1/14 is way too much slack. I think it supposed to be around 3/8 with your weight on the bike, but check your manual." Snidal book suggests around 1 /14" as correct (with a rider on the seat), but that it's not a "black and white issue."

On my 2008 AVL it's about 1 1/4 without a rider, and when I shorten the rear wheel distance by only one notch on the cams the chain tightens to about 1/2 inch. That seems awfully tight, given Snidal's advice that it just shouldn't be loose enough to slip off the rear sprocket when you hit a good bump and bottom out the suspension.

Lawrence, your right. I should never mix my inches with metrics messes with my head. 1"- 1 1/4" is the correct amount.

I hope I didn't detour you much, Geirskogul.

Geirskogul · **Reply #19 on:** July 23, 2009, 04:28:54 am

Since I'm an eternal fiddler I took it off after work today and cleaned it, then heated it in some trailer grease that I found in our shop to get it under the rollers (even though it's not an o-ring chain I like to let it seep in) then gave it an overcoating of some engine oil again on the outside.

These bikes are really easy to work on, and anything I do I learn something from for the future. It took me no more than five minutes to take off the chain using another chain I found to link to it and run it through the sprockets, and maybe 10 minutes to put back on because I had trouble with the master link clip. BTW: How come these aren't O-ring chains? The chain I used to pull this one out and back on with was an old O-ring chain from an ancient honda dirtbike scrapheap in our garage, and it looked like it cleared everything and fit pretty properly. Of course, it probably doesn't fit right in the end and that's the reason, but I found it interesting. Either way, the Enfield is sure a fun first bike for me.