[1Blackwolf1]

 or should say used to...tore into her today at 9 Am and spent the whole day futzing on her to fix it right.  Glad I talked to the folks at CMW and they suggested checking to spigot ring to make sure the head wasn't rocking because of a high spot.  Sure 'nuff was.

  Good thing I have diamond files and stones for gun smithing work I do as a hobby, and a good digital caliper.  Hand shaved the ring down to where it shouldn't weep again for a long time.  I suppose that's to be expected since the dies and molds are probably as old as the design.  Put a little Indianhead sealer on it, and just got back from a 5 mile run to warm her up to dry it out.  Not surprising the valcea were very loose after reassembly.  But all is well now (hopefully).  Will.

[ace.cafe]

Hey Will,

Sounds like you did fine.
Those spigots almost always need work.
I had to do mine, and I didn't even get it right. It still leaks a little.
But, I'll get it next time I have the head off.

It comes under the category of "finishing what the factory didn't get right"!
Ha!
It's actually all part of the fun, IMO.

[1Blackwolf1]

  Exactly, I suspect it had been weaping quite a while so got the kit Friday from CMW and decided I had the time best get it done.  Can't say it was any harder than a VW or Continental air cooled diesel.  Just lucky I have all the tools needed to do decent hand machining.  I think the spigot height varied by .030 when I started now it's more like a .010.  Not perfect but should do the trick.

  I prefer doing my own engine work if it's something I've done before.  Will. 

[Geirskogul]

OT: What's this "spigot" people keep talking about.  I can think of three or so things it would be from prior experience, but I'm not too sure exactly what this item is

[ace.cafe]

The "spigot" is the part of the cylinder liner that sticks up higher than the rest of the cylinder barrel.
It fits into a recess in the cylinder head when it's bolted on, and it forms the compression seal for the engine.

Here's a pic.
Look at the top of the cylinder barrel, and that round part that sticks up higher than the rest, is the "spigot".

[Cabo Cruz]

Brs. Will and Ace, I thank you for the lesson; in particular, the pictorial... always worth 1,000 words!!!   

[1Blackwolf1]

  No problem Brother Cruz..not a hard job at all, just good and messy.  What I couldn't believe was the carbon build up at 2500 miles.  So guess it will probably need de-coking about every 5000 miles.  But I think I'll do the spray bottle method about every 1000 miles.  Can't hurt anything to do so.  Used to do that after every hill climb on the Norton Commando.

  I'll probably order the composite gasket next, they are supposed to seal around irregularities.  But the only real irregularity is the spigot not being even, causing the head to sit on a high spot.  I'll research that issue more when the time comes.  Will.

[bob bezin]

not only is it uneven, but the darn thing is just too high. i ground mine down twice but still didnt go far enough. one has to be carefull not to go too far . i wound up putting in two head gaskets . which really slowed the leak to almost nothing . lowering the compression seems to have made a slight difference in top end speed.

[1Blackwolf1]

  Makes you kind of wonder if anyone had even seen a Vernier caliper at the factory.  Height A minus depth B add thickness C equals?  Oh well it was just a simple machining issue.  But yes a little bit of a pain.  Will.

[Jinx]

FYI, I've gott'a do my head gasket and the composit gaskets are on backorder.
 Planning to call and change my order to the copper gasket if it looks like it'll be awhile till they come in. I hear the copper ones are a pain to seal up?

[Leonard]

Guys,
  Educate a non-machinist a little bit.  Since that spigot just hangs down there (I'm assuming here) why would it have to be precise?  Couldn't you just grind it down with anything and dress out the burrs with a fine file and be good to go?  As long as it isn't touching anything seems to me that precision wouldn't matter.
Never too old to learn,
Leonard

[1Blackwolf1]

  If the spigot area is too high the head can't be tightened so it's level across the gasket sealing surface.  The cylinder head will have a high point it's riding on and will wobble on it.  Leak remains after installing new gasket.

  If you grind it down to far (make the wall to short) the result is a compression leak since you took away it's sealing area as Ace pointed out.  So what I did was measure the height of the spigot in 6 places (near the head studs) and wrote the numbers down.  Then measured the depth of the spigot recess area on the head.  Height minus depth gave me the max the spigot could go into the head.   Then measured the thickness of the gasket.  The first figure minus gasket thickness said the wall was about.025 inch to high, plus not smooth.
 
  But you wouldn't have to be quite that precise,  I did the lapping down with diamond files and stones from my gun smithing tools.  I just wouldn't get on the project with a power grinder, just my thoughts there.  Will.

[1Blackwolf1]

FYI, I've gott'a do my head gasket and the composit gaskets are on backorder.
 Planning to call and change my order to the copper gasket if it looks like it'll be awhile till they come in. I hear the copper ones are a pain to seal up?

  The stock gasket CMW supplies is much better than the original IMHO.  The brass outer halves are crimped together instead of being pressed from one solid sheet with fiber material between.  The new gasket actually has a decent thickness fiber mat between the halves.  If you install the original just put some sealer like Indianhead/Caterpillar Cat in A Can sealer on it on both sides.  It is a tight fit installing it over the head bolts I'll say that.

[ace.cafe]

Guys,
  Educate a non-machinist a little bit.  Since that spigot just hangs down there (I'm assuming here) why would it have to be precise?  Couldn't you just grind it down with anything and dress out the burrs with a fine file and be good to go?  As long as it isn't touching anything seems to me that precision wouldn't matter.
Never too old to learn,
Leonard

Leonard,
It needs to fill the recess in the head for the proper compression sealing, as Will mentioned.
Even if it is not quite touching, we want it to be as close as we can get it.

So, a typical method is to take off the head and previous gasket, and then put the head back on without the gasket(no torquing for this check), and use automotive-style feeler gauges to measure the gap where the head gasket goes.
If it's even all the way around, then you only need to grind down the spigot evenly all around. If not, you need to address the uneven issues too.
But, when you get it done, you want it to have a feeler-gauge gap of half the thickness of your head gasket.
That way, when you torque it down, and compress the head gasket, then it will be right, and the head gasket will be compressed enough to seal the pushrod tubes.

It's a matter of getting 2 different surface planes to be in correct positions to seal 2 different things when you torque it down.
If you lap the head to eliminate the gasket, then you just grind the spigot until the head sits right on the barrel evenly, with no gap at all.

[Leonard]

I guess I thought the gasket did all the compression sealing, never could figure out what that lip was for.  Thanks

[1Blackwolf1]

Leonard,
It needs to fill the recess in the head for the proper compression sealing, as Will mentioned.
Even if it is not quite touching, we want it to be as close as we can get it.

So, a typical method is to take off the head and previous gasket, and then put the head back on without the gasket(no torquing for this check), and use automotive-style feeler gauges to measure the gap where the head gasket goes.
If it's even all the way around, then you only need to grind down the spigot evenly all around. If not, you need to address the uneven issues too.
But, when you get it done, you want it to have a feeler-gauge gap of half the thickness of your head gasket.
That way, when you torque it down, and compress the head gasket, then it will be right, and the head gasket will be compressed enough to seal the pushrod tubes.

It's a matter of getting 2 different surface planes to be in correct positions to seal 2 different things when you torque it down.
If you lap the head to eliminate the gasket, then you just grind the spigot until the head sits right on the barrel evenly, with no gap at all.

  Wish I'd known about this method..makes it much easier.  Used what I was taught on Continental diesels.  Both work but this is much simpler.  Thanks,  Will.

[thestewart]

I used one of the composite gaskets to replace my weeping one. To check the spigot, I followed a method someone posted on the Yahoo group, which is similar to Ace's recommendation. I removed the old gasket, and placed a feeler gauge half the thickness of the uncompressed gasket (.5mm) at the offending weep area (on mine near the pushrod tubes). With the gauge in place, I put the head on (with no gasket) and torqued it down part way (I think it was 15lbs?). Then I checked to see if I could pull the gauge out. If I could, the spigot was too high for the compressed gasket. In my case I could not. I installed the new gasket, torqued down, and it has been bone dry ever since. You can use this method to see if the spigot is topping out on the head before adequately compressing the gasket in as many places around the head as you like. I just checked the spot where I knew the oil was reliably weeping from.

[1Blackwolf1]

  That would/will work too, but I have reringed and resleeved some many of those old Conti 12 cylinder air cooled  diesels just got used to doing the height A depth B thickness C formula.  Knock on wood it's dry as I speak.  Will.