Author Topic: ES Battery in Toolbox (Read 4481 times)

Rick Sperko · **on:** June 27, 2009, 10:58:29 pm

My father's day gift was a Yuasa YTZ14S equivalent battery from Parts Unlimited to put in my right side toolbox. It arrived this week and I made the mounting bracket and put it in today.

I started with a 6"x18" piece of aluminum. Made a paper model, then using tin snips cut it out:

I used a vice block of wood and hammer to shape it. Picked up a black rubber mat and cut it to protect the battery.

Here it is in the toolbox:

Here is the left side of the bike without the battery:

And finally, here it is on the bike:

To be perfectly clear: DO NOT DO THIS! I am now using an 11ah battery. The bike is supposed to have a 14ah battery. Your current battery can turn over the starter for longer than mine can. The concern with 11ah is too little juice causing the spag clutch to frag. I am willing to take the risk, particularly since I almost never use the ES.

A while back Blltrdr recommened this battery here: http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,1875.msg36016.html#msg36016 I agree with him, but you don't have to. My bike turns right over with this battery, perfectly.

Now I just need the get the Ace Air Box and put it in place. I think the bike looks like a greyhound.

-Rick

geoffbaker · **Reply #1 on:** June 27, 2009, 11:14:35 pm

Nice! I'm still thinking about doing pretty much the same thing...

my diesel only needs 5A but I have a lead acid battery. I'm betting your 11A gelcel probably weighs no more than my lead acid unit... and could give me twice the power storage which would be helpful in ekeing out my electrical power...

To get high mpg I'm not charging the battery enough so that the system runs down over several hours. With one of these batteries, that could be extended...

ace has also recommended (and I'm looking into) using a 11v-13v step up transformer to up my alternator output at low revs (higher voltage but lower current). This might help me keep the battery charged... I'll be talking to the electronics store guy on Monday on this issue.

Anyway, sorry to hijack the thread but do you think the gelcel would be worth trying?

Rick Sperko · **Reply #2 on:** June 27, 2009, 11:53:07 pm

Quote from: geoffbaker on June 27, 2009, 11:14:35 pm

Nice! I'm still thinking about doing pretty much the same thing...

my diesel only needs 5A but I have a lead acid battery. I'm betting your 11A gelcel probably weighs no more than my lead acid unit... and could give me twice the power storage which would be helpful in ekeing out my electrical power...

To get high mpg I'm not charging the battery enough so that the system runs down over several hours. With one of these batteries, that could be extended...

ace has also recommended (and I'm looking into) using a 11v-13v step up transformer to up my alternator output at low revs (higher voltage but lower current). This might help me keep the battery charged... I'll be talking to the electronics store guy on Monday on this issue.

Anyway, sorry to hijack the thread but do you think the gelcel would be worth trying?

It is actually an AGM battery: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRLA#Absorbent_glass_mat_.28AGM.29 this article shows they are often used for electric vehicles. Price wise, it cost me about $70. I was following your capacitor queries, this might be a good solution for your idling power concern. Apparently, they charge rapidly. You might be able to find an even higher AH AGM that would fit in the KS batter location to extend the discharge even further.

-Rick

geoffbaker · **Reply #3 on:** June 28, 2009, 12:10:21 am

Quote from: Rick Sperko on June 27, 2009, 11:53:07 pm

It is actually an AGM battery: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRLA#Absorbent_glass_mat_.28AGM.29 this article shows they are often used for electric vehicles. Price wise, it cost me about $70. I was following your capacitor queries, this might be a good solution for your idling power concern. Apparently, they charge rapidly. You might be able to find an even higher AH AGM that would fit in the KS batter location to extend the discharge even further.

-Rick

Don't suppose you have a link to the battery at that price? It's a bit cheaper than I've found on the web just typing in the product number...

Rick Sperko · **Reply #4 on:** June 28, 2009, 12:24:58 am

Dennis Kirk: http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/product_catalog/Product.jsp;jsessionid=NPXAU0Q5RB1Z5LA0WTISM4VMDK0OWIV0?store=&skuId=209044

My brain is great at playing down how much I spend. It is $75+ shipping. I found cheaper ones on eBay, but for no real reason other than a good friend of mine works for Parts Unlimited I felt safer with that brand since I was not going to pay Yuasa prices.

-Rick

geoffbaker · **Reply #5 on:** June 28, 2009, 12:28:03 am

Quote from: Rick Sperko on June 28, 2009, 12:24:58 am

Dennis Kirk: http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/product_catalog/Product.jsp;jsessionid=NPXAU0Q5RB1Z5LA0WTISM4VMDK0OWIV0?store=&skuId=209044

My brain is great at playing down how much I spend. It is $75+ shipping. I found cheaper ones on eBay, but for no real reason other than a good friend of mine works for Parts Unlimited I felt safer with that brand since I was not going to pay Yuasa prices.

-Rick

thanks Rick!

1Blackwolf1 · **Reply #6 on:** June 28, 2009, 01:54:04 am

Looks good Rick. Will.

Rick Sperko · **Reply #7 on:** June 28, 2009, 02:45:29 am

Thanks, Will.

I was not sure if I would like it, but I really do. I think it will look great with the Ace Air Box (patent pending:) chromed on both sides.

-Rick

ace.cafe · **Reply #8 on:** June 28, 2009, 03:35:12 am

Rick,
Looks good!
Just be careful that nothing can touch those terminals when the toolbox is closed.

Airbox went out yesterday via Priority Mail, and if they ran the trucks over the weekend, you might get it Monday.

1Blackwolf1 · **Reply #9 on:** June 28, 2009, 03:38:58 am

We'll have to compare pictures when we both get the air boxes installed. Will.

Blltrdr · **Reply #10 on:** June 28, 2009, 05:30:34 am

Rick I'm glad to see that someone (you) took the initiative to put that battery in their ES Bullet. I did the research to make sure that battery would fit and emailed the guys at Yuasa to make sure that battery would be sufficient for the ES Bullet. I am very happy to see that this setup works great for you. These batteries hold there charge longer and also have more CCA than their lead/acid counterpart.

Like you pointed out the AH difference is the only thing to possibly be worried about, but time will soon tell if there is a negative to this setup. Keep everyone posted on your findings.

By the way, i like the way this has opened up your frame. Looks great!

I'm sure others will follow suite as soon as you give a full performance update.

Rick Sperko · **Reply #11 on:** June 28, 2009, 06:24:14 am

Thanks for the info Blltrdr, I have been using the electric start today just to test it and the bike turns right over. It is working well.

Then I started taking my gearbox apart to replace the clutch lever and see why I am popping out of 5th. I gave up taking apart the gearbox for now, and the reassembly is not going well. It is now after midnight and before I break anything I am stopping for the night. Hopefully I will get to ride the bike again soon. I am sure some sleep and the light of day will show me what I messed up.

-Rick

luckylefty · **Reply #12 on:** June 29, 2009, 08:22:28 am

i am riding the 500 military es..so which battery model i should get that will have the same specs as the stock but smaller in size...i am not really good with electrical stuff.

Rick Sperko · **Reply #13 on:** June 29, 2009, 12:11:26 pm

As far as I know, there is no battery with the same speccs that will fit. I did quite a bit of searching. The Yuasa listed above and its clones are the best we can find. I had to file the bottom left corner of my bracket, so 1/8" deeper would not have worked.

While this battery is not the same spec, when I push the starter button - pow it starts, instantly.

-Rick

Blltrdr · **Reply #14 on:** June 29, 2009, 03:29:35 pm

One thing I did notice Rick is that you need a version with the terminals flipped so you have more room for that positive terminal. I could have sworn when researching the battery you could get it with the terminals in either configurations. I guess you will have to be extra cautious while working on that POS terminal.

The positive side is,

it looks better than stock!

luckylefty · **Reply #15 on:** June 30, 2009, 03:11:29 am

Quote from: Rick Sperko on June 29, 2009, 12:11:26 pm

As far as I know, there is no battery with the same speccs that will fit. I did quite a bit of searching. The Yuasa listed above and its clones are the best we can find. I had to file the bottom left corner of my bracket, so 1/8" deeper would not have worked.

While this battery is not the same spec, when I push the starter button - pow it starts, instantly.

-Rick

thanks rick..but will there be any issues ? like in the long run..? is it the same as yuasa YTZ7ST ? Even the RE agent here is not familiar with batter specs..wat a shame..

Rick Sperko · **Reply #16 on:** June 30, 2009, 04:04:48 am

The YTZ14S has higher Amp-hours than the 7S. Long term, I cannot see any issues, maybe longer term motorcycle veterans here can come up with something. The bike is running on the alternator most of the time (unless you have a diesel

), so I think the spag clutch is the biggest concern. Lots of people have their spag clutch break with 14Ah batteries, so who knows. I think it is UncleErnie who says "you pay your money and take your chances."

Really I think the only issue is do you use your ES a lot, do you hold the starter button for a while? Once the bike is running the alternator should be doing the work. I don't do either. One other issue is being careful that the positive post doesn't touch anything while the negative is connected. That will make a spark, probably blow a fuse, possibly fry something. Really you have that same concern with a 14Ah battery too.

I like it, I think it looks good.

Just my $0.02 and probably more than it is worth.

Good luck,
-Rick

luckylefty · **Reply #17 on:** June 30, 2009, 08:29:32 am

Quote from: Rick Sperko on June 30, 2009, 04:04:48 am

The YTZ14S has higher Amp-hours than the 7S. Long term, I cannot see any issues, maybe longer term motorcycle veterans here can come up with something. The bike is running on the alternator most of the time (unless you have a diesel ), so I think the spag clutch is the biggest concern. Lots of people have their spag clutch break with 14Ah batteries, so who knows. I think it is UncleErnie who says "you pay your money and take your chances."

Really I think the only issue is do you use your ES a lot, do you hold the starter button for a while? Once the bike is running the alternator should be doing the work. I don't do either. One other issue is being careful that the positive post doesn't touch anything while the negative is connected. That will make a spark, probably blow a fuse, possibly fry something. Really you have that same concern with a 14Ah battery too.

I like it, I think it looks good.

Just my $0.02 and probably more than it is worth.

Good luck,
-Rick

thats good to know rick i am ridin my RE daily its like my mode of transportation to work and home. I mean if you are usin a es and there is no problem ..i hope my bike doesnt give any problem too..i guess its gonna be quite costly to get it fixed here..the postive negative issue issit the top part of the dry cell ?

1Blackwolf1 · **Reply #18 on:** June 30, 2009, 01:44:00 pm

I will probably go to the baterry in the box when the new AGM I put inits original position goes south but I did get a 2 year unlimited mileage warranty on it so it may be a while before that happens. From what I've found out is the sprague is just as likely to blow from bad tuning as anything else. If you use the decompressor when using the electric start you will prolong its life. And having it tuned properly will save backfiring. I know what caused mine to blow and it was the coil primary wiring coming apart and having the bike die at speed in gear.

I'm no electrical engineer but have worked on lots of equipment (got my DOT maintenance license courtesy U.S. Army) and IMO a 2AH difference will not make or break the system. May be wrong, probably am. It won't hold out as long cranking but you shouldn't grind on the starter anyway. If it doesn't start within 15-20 seconds on anything, car/bike/truck you have a problem. You need to figure out the issues then try to start it. So while I do believe in the biggest battery in a auto I can fit in the mount (book calls for a 750 CCA, if a 1000 CCA fits in it goes). I also believe a 2AH difference is less of a concern in a bike. Unless you plan on riding in extreme heat or cold. If I'm way opff base I suppose I'll find out from someone smarter than I am. Will.

Rick Sperko · **Reply #19 on:** June 30, 2009, 07:33:45 pm

I am going to get even more opportunity to use my ES, my kickstart spring popped out or broke this morning. I had it off over the weekend and as I was putting it together I thought it looked like it was not all the way seated, but I tried pushing it in and it didn't go any farther. This morning I went to kick it over and pow! The kick start goes up and down but stays where I left it. Since I won't get a chance to take it apart till this weekend I will tie it up and use the ES.

It is a bummer, I love kick starting the bike. I recently found I can start it one kick left footed, just for the heck of it. Then the next day it took four kicks just to keep me humble.

-Rick

geoffbaker · **Reply #20 on:** June 30, 2009, 07:37:36 pm

If it's the spring its an easy fix

Probably just popped out of the little hole.

Rick Sperko · **Reply #21 on:** June 30, 2009, 08:05:39 pm

Yeah, I had the spring in my hand this weekend, so that is likely the cause. If I touch it...

Thanks,
-Rick

luckylefty · **Reply #22 on:** August 08, 2009, 07:34:04 pm

guys i just recolated my battery to the tool box and i cant seem to start my bike..there is a click sound..when i press the start the pliot light turns on then it goes off..is there a glitch ? btw the click is from the tool box a round looking thing..

Blltrdr · **Reply #23 on:** August 08, 2009, 07:46:10 pm

Quote from: luckylefty on August 08, 2009, 07:34:04 pm

guys i just recolated my battery to the tool box and i cant seem to start my bike..there is a click sound..when i press the start the pliot light turns on then it goes off..is there a glitch ? btw the click is from the tool box a round looking thing..

Check your ground. Make sure it has a clean and tight connection to the frame. Battery fully charged? Is it the same model/size Rick installed?

Blltrdr

luckylefty · **Reply #24 on:** August 09, 2009, 01:36:01 am

Quote from: Blltrdr on August 08, 2009, 07:46:10 pm

Check your ground. Make sure it has a clean and tight connection to the frame. Battery fully charged? Is it the same model/size Rick installed?

Blltrdr

the battery is fine and its charged..but i am not sure about the ground. i rem there was a green cable was linked to the chasis..and direct to the battery negtive side. and also another. Black cable linked to the battery but it as another wire coming out .. there is a click sound from the starter and my pilot light flashes.

geoffbaker · **Reply #25 on:** August 09, 2009, 02:03:45 am

Quote from: luckylefty on August 08, 2009, 07:34:04 pm

guys i just recolated my battery to the tool box and i cant seem to start my bike..there is a click sound..when i press the start the pliot light turns on then it goes off..is there a glitch ? btw the click is from the tool box a round looking thing..

I would check connections, and figure out what the round looking thing is.. you need to know your electical system well enough to know what the parts do, to figure out how to fix it

Read the manual and the circuit diagram.

luckylefty · **Reply #26 on:** August 09, 2009, 02:43:31 am

Quote from: geoffbaker on August 09, 2009, 02:03:45 am

I would check connections, and figure out what the round looking thing is.. you need to know your electical system well enough to know what the parts do, to figure out how to fix it

Read the manual and the circuit diagram.

i was lookin a snidal's and realized its a starter. will have to figure out later..how to trouble shoot