Author Topic: ...Oh man...  (Read 3214 times)

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shotty8585

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on: June 04, 2009, 12:11:42 am
Okay so a couple questions... Today I got my tdc tool in the mail... So any tips on how to use it cant be too hard... You just wait till rod reaches the highest point correct? I put it to what I thought was tdc then proceeded to take off my tappet cover to adjust them... I tightened both tappets to where they had no play up or down but were still able to spin... Get done put it all back together and go for a spin and the friggan knocking sound is ten times worse than before... What did I do wrong? Did I not have tdc found? Can you guys give me a few tips on how to adjust them. And how to use that stinkin tool haha?


ace.cafe

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Reply #1 on: June 04, 2009, 12:37:43 am
There are 2 different "TDC" locations.
We have a 4-stroke engine here.

There is TDC at the top of  the compression stroke, and TDC on the top of the exhaust stroke.
You want the TDC on the top of the compression stroke, which is the one that happens after you reach the point where it's hard to push the kickstarter down, and you have to use the decompressor. You know?

That's the TDC where both valves are closed and you can adjust them.
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UncleErnie

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Reply #2 on: June 04, 2009, 01:21:37 am
Normally (if I can use that word in a RE post), you can check for the proper TDC by opening the side panel.  With your tool (or any dowel), turn the engine until the piston comes up the highest and then feel the push rods.  If only one turns and the other doesn't- you have the wrong TDC.  Both push rods should turn/spin easily when you rotate them by hand. 
Since I'm not real sure what happened, if you take the rocker covers off, you will see both rockers are even.  When it's at the wrong TDC, one rocker will be up and one down.  You may not be able to shake or rattle them- that's why it's good to actually watch what they do.  When you get it down, you won't have to open up the rocker covers again- you'll be able to do the check/adjustment from the side.
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jest2dogs

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Reply #3 on: June 04, 2009, 05:20:18 am
The tappets should turn "thumb free", not spin freely (like a top). "Thumb free" is the term in the owners manual. I adjust mine so that they turn with a dry thumb or a thumb through a rag. This way the valves still have "presence" when warm but don't sound like they are going to jump out and run alongside.

-Jesse
"Ennie" 2006 RE Bullet Classic 500 (currently undergoing a facelift)
Commuter Scooter Commuted to "Otherside"
"Geezer" 2007 Moto Guzzi Breva 750 died and reborn as yet, un-named, 2005 Moto Guzzi Breva 750,
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otteryboy

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Reply #4 on: June 04, 2009, 09:01:49 am
Dont worry shotty, first time I did my tappet adjustment I did the same as you. Set them on the wrong TDC. They sounded like a bag of nails about to explode!

The advice people are giving you will set it right.

 ;)



Chasfield

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Reply #5 on: June 04, 2009, 05:44:53 pm
The precision of the TDC finding  tool is more useful for setting ignition timing.

Setting your engine so that the points are just opening will put you within 0.8 mm of TDC on the compression stroke. That will be close enough to ensure that the cam followers are somewhere around the back of the cam lobes  and that the valves are fully shut, ready for clearance adjustment.
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shotty8585

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Reply #6 on: June 05, 2009, 01:09:02 am
Okay so I found TDC... Started tinkering with the tappets.. So on each rod there are three little nuts. the top the tiny one right below the top and the bottom which ones am I supposed to adjust? I went with the top and bottom. I think I got the left side done fine. The right side is a whole other story... I dont know what the heck I did... after tinkering with it for what seemed like an hour I am still stuck... What ways adjust what? Any help would be greatly appreciated as im pretty torqued right now...


Rick Sperko

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Reply #7 on: June 05, 2009, 01:11:40 am
The middle one is a lock nut. Loosen that, then you can turn the other two against each other to tighten or loosen them.

-Rick
Rick in Milwaukee, WI

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shotty8585

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Reply #8 on: June 05, 2009, 01:15:26 am
Thanks Rick... haha Im gonna get the hang of this.... someday...


shotty8585

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Reply #9 on: June 05, 2009, 03:13:37 am
Okay so I just cant seem to get a good adjustment on the right valve (exhaust valve???) Could I not be finding TDC correctly or something? When I first started I didnt loosen the lock nut and I just tinkered with the top and bottom could I have screwed something up?


pknopp

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Reply #10 on: June 05, 2009, 03:27:52 am
 Pull your tank (two bolts) and remove the rocker covers. It's what I did initially so that I could get a better feel at what was going on.
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shotty8585

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Reply #11 on: June 05, 2009, 03:44:34 am
When you are at the correct TDC which valve is higher? or are they exactly even?


jest2dogs

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Reply #12 on: June 05, 2009, 07:21:34 am
The base of the intake "looks higher but both tappets will actually be at their lowest point, watch them as you turn it over. You don't even need to remove your spark plug. Remove the tappet cover, turn on the key, watch the ammeter. The needle will move left, you are approaching TDC, and will feel resistance in the start lever. When you pull in the decompression lever and gently press the start lever there will be a "huff" sound and the ammeter needle will go to center. You are now at TDC. A "scosh" more is okay, as the valves have to stay closed on the compression (down) stroke. Adjust your valves now.

The middle nut tightens against the top nut as a locknut. Both top "nuts" are female. The bottom "nut" is not a nut, it is actually a threaded male.

I bought a small vise grip with needle nose and sometimes, if I am not feeling too dexterous, I use it to clamp onto the lower (male) hex and let it "stop" against the motor so I can finagle the other two nuts with wrenches for adjustment. You must turn loose the locknut before adjusting, otherwise the threaded male can get stripped or snapped. Hold the top and bottom hexes steady and turn the lock nut to the left (like you are screwing it down onto the lower threads). A 1/2 turn loose of the locknut is usually enough, and a 1/2 of a "flat" on the top nut is a lot of "adjustment" at a time (provided the bottom hex is locked in place by the vise grips against the the motor). Note, I have Samrat pushrods, they might look a little different than yours.

Oh heck, I'll take a picture.

Okay the first picture just shows the Vise Grips clamped onto the bottom adjuster and braced against the motor. The center stud is shown, but adjustment is MUCH easier if you remove that center stud!

The second picture just shows the tappets at TDC (no shiny parts peeking out from fat threaded portions).

Brute force is not needed. Use your finger strength to tighten the wrenches, not your biceps! Sorry if this info is too basic for you. We all start somewhere. No offense intended to your intelligence/abilities. Tighten until it first STOPS. Do not tighten beyond this point,  it stretches things, leading to failure.

(Dry) Thumb free (firm), not "spinning" like a top. You will still hear the valves "tap" when warm but not a trying-to-commit-suicide "banging".

I also have to sit comfortably on the ground next to the bike to do all this, as kneeling gets too intense and cramped and leads to frustration. Sometimes it takes me twenty plus minutes to get it right, other times ten. No one is testing you!

-Jesse
"Ennie" 2006 RE Bullet Classic 500 (currently undergoing a facelift)
Commuter Scooter Commuted to "Otherside"
"Geezer" 2007 Moto Guzzi Breva 750 died and reborn as yet, un-named, 2005 Moto Guzzi Breva 750,
and...the newest stablemate, also un-named, my crazy Russian 2015 Ural cT.


shotty8585

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Reply #13 on: June 05, 2009, 02:16:45 pm
I love this forum.. Thanks to all who helped and threw advice my way!


abe

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Reply #14 on: June 05, 2009, 02:53:38 pm
I found this on youtube sometime ago and I like the way he explains it, I am a visual kind of guy, hope it helps.

abe


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccerCWz4k3A