Author Topic: Fan - is this possible?  (Read 2915 times)

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NJ Riff Raff

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on: May 14, 2009, 02:19:44 pm
I'm a little concerned about sitting in traffic on hot summer days. I live in NJ and ride through the tunnel and sometimes it can be jammed as well as the sometimes turning down a series of block streets once in the city. I had an idea to hook up a fan just to get some air flow in these situations and operated it from the the disconnected running lights switch. Is this possible and if so how?
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Mitch

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Reply #1 on: May 14, 2009, 02:51:16 pm
Here's my thought...

Although I am very new to this... just one year, I would be concerned of adding more accessories that are drawing electrical power as the engine is not charging the battery at idle.  When I am stopped in the summer waiting for a train (ie. long stop) I just shut the bike off.

That's my 2 cents... Mitch


geoffbaker

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Reply #2 on: May 14, 2009, 03:03:24 pm
People have added oil coolers to their system, search the threads.

I added a cyl. temp meter so I could monitor the head temp here in Tucson where it gets a lot hotter!


Leonard

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Reply #3 on: May 14, 2009, 03:07:50 pm
I'm a little concerned about sitting in traffic on hot summer days.

My thought is that it gets hellishly hot in India and the traffic couldn't be any worse than NJ.  So I'm thinking don't worry about it.
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ace.cafe

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Reply #4 on: May 14, 2009, 03:09:28 pm
It's possible.

The key to it is to place the fan so it does not impede the normal airflow over the fins, during normal running. Once you start riding, the air speed will quickly overtake the ability of the fan to move air, and the fan becomes an obstruction to airflow.
This means it must be positioned along the side of the engine, or behind it with some distance between it and the fins. To ensure that it doesn't interfere with normal cooling.

The area that needs it most is on the area at the front, and toward the right side of the bike, where the exhaust heat is the highest. It' won't cool the engine alot, unless it's a big fan, but even a little might help when you're stuck in traffic.

A couple of small muffin-fans, mounted a little  above the timing chest, pointing the air at the head and upper cylinder fins would probably work to some degree.
Might not look too great. But they might help keep the engine cool during long idling times. It all depends on how long you have to idle without normal cooling airflow.
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NJ Riff Raff

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Reply #5 on: May 14, 2009, 03:29:39 pm
I was thinking of the muffin fans. They might tuck away nicely because of their size and not get in the way of normal airflow. I have a military so I may be able to get away with it looks wise.

In New York City you never know what kind of traffic you might get into on a moments notice. That's why I'm thinking of doing this. Does anyone know what the wires are in the headlamp for the unplugged running light switch on the handlebar?

I also do like the oil cooler idea. Seems to work well for my Bonnie. Anyone with links and/or install pics? Easy?

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geoffbaker

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Reply #6 on: May 14, 2009, 03:58:16 pm
The disadvantage to oil coolers on an Enfield is that the bike suffers from low oil pressure to begin with. You want to be careful because a cooler, if it gets blocked, can do great damage. A full oil cooler system would have to include bypass valves to handle such blockages; in pricing one out for my diesel (which I abandoned because the diesel stays much, much cooler than the original) I figured it would cost several hundred dollars for the radiator, lines, valves etc.

An electric fan would be much cheaper. as ace says, when moving, it would quickly be useless. I think sizing would be critical. Too large a fan = too much battery drain in heavy traffic. Too small, no appreciable improvement.


Vince

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Reply #7 on: May 14, 2009, 04:31:43 pm
     You are worrying WAAAAAY too much.All it takes is a hint of a breeze for adequate cooling. With combustion temperatures approaching 3000 degrees, the ambient air temperature makes little difference to cooling. What makes the difference is air flow to exchange heat from the fins to the air. These bikes do fine in all parts of India. I suggest spending your money and time on regular oil changes using a premium oil, and keeping the valves and timing to specification. These will help the engine run cooler and last longer.
     If you get to the point of having to do any top end work then get the alloy cylinder. It transfers heat better than the iron barrel. This will ease some of your concerns, but I wouldn't do it "just because".


cyrusb

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Reply #8 on: May 14, 2009, 04:52:16 pm
Vince can't be more right. This engine has been around for fifty odd years, operating in some horrendus conditions and it still has not grown a fan.
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NJ Riff Raff

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Reply #9 on: May 14, 2009, 05:28:04 pm
I probably am worrying too much. your right. This all comes from some concerns I have that have occurred in idle situations. I recently fitted the 30mm flat-side carb. I really like it. Bike fires right up and runs well. However there some moments in extended traffic when I start to get loud lean popping in my exhaust when I role on the throttle. Goes away once I get moving again. This does not happen when I'm out for a ride in open road settings. If I can't get moving I pull over and cool down. I'm pretty sure the jetting is right because any slight change I make on a jet up or down or needle position up or down introduces some real hesitation problems. I have check everything timing, gap, valves and they are set properly.

I have ever so slightly just richened up the idle mixture and will see what that does. I'm not sure what speed sound wise constitutes an idle on a bullet? Seems like I can really slow it down if I like or speed it up. Thoughts with out have a tach? Screw is out 1 and half and it seems to really like it there. Idle is strong no matter what speed I run it at with the stop screw.

Do things run cooler as the engine breaks in and when can I start using synthetic oil?
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geoffbaker

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Reply #10 on: May 14, 2009, 05:52:30 pm
riffraff... what is your plug color?

If you're running too rich (which is quite common) the engine will be running hotter...

You might want to get a dealer or a mechanic to look at it just to make sure you have it running spot on...


NJ Riff Raff

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Reply #11 on: May 14, 2009, 06:00:48 pm
I've been checking the plug color and it's definitely on the rich side of things but not too the point of fouling the plug. I thought rich made things run cooler?
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geoffbaker

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Reply #12 on: May 14, 2009, 07:04:08 pm
Beyond a certain point that is certainly true. However, if you are injecting more fuel into the head in the first place, that will increase temperature. Running it rich will also increase temperature UNTIL so much fuel is coming in that it no longer combusts efficiently and then you start to "coke" the head and foul the plug... at which point it cools down as combustion is affected. So if the plug isn't fouling but you're running rich, then you may be adding heat to the equation, not cooling it.

At least, that is my understanding.

These aircooled heads run hot. I would definitely move to synth oil as soon as possible (after break-in). and as I said earlier, one easy and non-invasive way of keeping tabs on the issue is to check oil temperature or head temperature.

Cheap way: meat thermometer in dipstick. Look for threads on that; it's been done.

Other ways: a head temp meter is an easy install, requiring only that a sensor be placed under a bolt head or spark plug (decomp valve might also work). Dakota digital and others sell them. Under the spark plug is the worst placement.. it gives an inaccurate view as it is the very hottest place on an engine.

An oil temp sensor could also be installed somewhere I'm sure.

I use both an oil temp meter and a head temp meter on my diesel; but that is really because in building the diesel I was in unknown territory and was looking to get maximum efficiency out of the engine and wanted to make sure it didn't overheat. As it turned out, the highly-modified diesel runs much cooler than the gas engine ever did, so it hasn't been a problem; I'll probably remove them for my long distance ride just to keep weight down.

From what I read on the oil cooler threads, I think that they seemed more effort than they were worth - and possibly dangerous if a blockage occured.

So I would use synth oil, and maybe back off a bit on your fuel settings and see if that helps.


Chuck D

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Reply #13 on: May 14, 2009, 08:08:46 pm
For what it's worth, I've been riding around NYC for over a year now in every type of traffic imaginable with no problems. As mentioned earlier, keep your valves and points to speck. Ditto your timing and mixture and change your oil frequently ( I do mine every 1000 miles without fail). I get stuck in heavy traffic all the time and if it looks like an extended delay, I just shut the engine. But otherwise as long as you're moving even a little bit, You'll be fine.
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baird4444

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Reply #14 on: May 15, 2009, 07:07:01 am
Vince DID have it right...
The conditions that our brothers in India  put these things thru are far worse than we would even consider.  You don't really think they change the oil every 1,000 or 1,500 miles do you? They probably do it when they get around to it. The filter?? They rinse it out with gas and use it again!! I think that if you were to  compare the way that we maintain our rides to the way that they we do, it could be said that we are anal!
      The conditions over there are FAR worse than ours; they don't maintain like we do, and they just keep riding...   I OVER FIDDLED on mine for the first 2 years before I learned to not  F with it. These things are a lower tech motor than what is being used in todays riding mowers!  ( ifitain'tbrokedon'tfixit )
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texabilly

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Reply #15 on: May 15, 2009, 02:31:43 pm
here's the oil cooler i put in.  works great in california summers.  wish i knew what bike it was off of.  got it at a moto junk yard & fit perfectly.  i made some little brackets to mount it on the engine brackets.  but there are much easier ones like the jagg coolers.  i've got one on my norton.  ez install but not cheap. 

http://www.setrabusa.com/jagg%20files/jagg%20pages/jagghome.htm


ace.cafe

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Reply #16 on: May 15, 2009, 03:56:26 pm
An oil cooler is a good item to keep the oil from breaking down, and I think it's a must in hot climates.

However, please understand that the Bullet is an air-cooled motorcycle, not an oil-cooled motorcycle. The oil flow is very small in the Bullet, and only plays a minor role in the actual cooling of the engine, athough it does do some cooling.
Oil flow in this engine is not sufficient to cool the engine by itself.
So, there is no substitute for air flowing over the fins.
Even an oil cooler needs air flowing thru it.

As previously stated, it doesn't need to be moving very fast over the fins, but it needs to be exchanging air for cooling.
Extended traffic jams are not good, and I'd consider shutting off the bike in long traffic jams on hot days.
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