[UncleErnie]

Any high mileage electric start bikes out there?  Say- over 5K miles?

All these posts;  Is sprag failure inevitable?  Just a matter of time?  Am I riding a ticking bomb?

[Cabo Cruz]

Br. Ernie, I have a 2004 Sixty-5 with almost 9K miles on the clock.  Thanks to God and knock on wood, I have not had any sprag problems.  I acknowledge that I do not have the AVL engine but the Iron Lung one with the ES on it. 

[PhilJ]

Yup! My '08 AVL Classic 10k no problems of any kind. But I don't use the starter very much unless I've flooded it on a cold morning or stalled in traffic.

[GreenMachine]

06 iron with just over 5k....no problems with ES...Did a primary change past fall with a full quart of type f transmission fluid....

[Thumper]

Any high mileage electric start bikes out there?  Say- over 5K miles?

All these posts;  Is sprag failure inevitable?  Just a matter of time?  Am I riding a ticking bomb?

My 2006 has over 6000 miles. CMW has given us the starter motor delay unit which preserves the sprag clutch. Check into this if you need to. Also to preserve the starter assemblage, decompress the engine at TDC compression just like if you were going to kickstart it (and 1st kicking it through a bunch of 'primer' strokes doesn't hurt either), then push the starter button. The stress you'd take off your leg by decompressing it is the same stress you take off the starter assemblage. Yes it's more work but we didn't by a Civic did we? :-)

Matt

[Tiny Tim]

Uncle Ernie,

17k miles with smiles here.

Along the way I've gone through 2 sprag failures  (backfire on tickover - not starting) and a complete engine rebuild due to big end failure (the UK importer supplied all required replacement parts f.o.c. as long as I promised to stop phoning him!)

Would I buy another? Probaly, but now that the UCE engine is out, with a better starter design and, so it would appear, a much better overall engine design, I'd probably save up my pennies and opt for that.

I do a full setvice every 1000 miles.

[UncleErnie]

I put rear-sets on.  There is a wider KS lever supplied to clear the assemblage, but my pant cuff kept getting caught (scaring me to death of tip-over), so I took the lever off.  I have a bad leg anyway- so kicking really isn't an option.

I've tried using the decompressor while I push the start button- nothing happens.  It won't start.

I finally sold my Indian Chief (which was incredibly easy to kick-start BTW) because I got tired of the paranoia of wondering when I'd be left on the side of the road. 

Mr Tiny Tim, a full service might mean an oil change and valve check to one person, or change-out of all fluids, inspecting every nut and bolt, and changing out the tire air for fresh.  What does "full service" mean to you?

[Thumper]

I've tried using the decompressor while I push the start button- nothing happens.  It won't start.

It'll never electric start without compression in the engine. Even when you use the decomp for kickstarting - it's not starting a decompressed engine cycle.

My point is simply that the decomp technique used prior to kickstarting can - and should - be used when E-starting the engine if you want to save wear and tear on the starter assemblage.

Matt

[Rick Sperko]

Kevin has recommended using the decompression with the electric start. If I understood the procedure, hold the decomp lever open, let the starter turn a couple times, then while the starter is turning let go of the decomp lever. It should then fire up. Obviously keeping the decompression lever pulled will prevent starting.

-Rick

[clamp]

The sprag is obviously a very poor locally Indian made item. Pulling the de compressor takes no load of the sprag, it still has to turn the engine under compression. I dont even use the decomprssor when kicking ---its only 350cc and 7:5:1

[Tiny Tim]

Uncle Ernie,

For me, a full service involves changing all fluids and filters plus spark plug. Adjust all cables and brakes plus a general good looking over.

I believe the air in the tires only needs to be changed if you are entering California?

Clamp,
The general quality of the sprag isn't at question. I believe it is the general design. The sprag assembly isn't designed to cope with a backfire. When it does, the sprag is designed to fail to save the starter.

Given that the starter is accessable via two 6 m.m. allen bolts and costs less thatn a sprag clutch.........

[clamp]

All motorcycles have this same sprag configeration.   Sprags live in uuto transmissions without failure at all ,infact a lot of people have never heard of them.

     I have never heard of one blowing on any other motorcycle, can you explain that?

       

[PhilJ]

I'll give it a shot Clamp.

Most motorcycles aren't single cylinder that kick back and most were not an add-on bastardization.

[clamp]

Good shot,--but when you stomp on the gas on a fairly common 400Hp and the torque convertor stator stops dead and is trying to turn backwards,--- well-- If I was a sprag Ide not like that very much.

     Being fitted to a bastardised 20 HP motorcycle would be like a sprag sitting in a deck chair on  holiday on the beach in comparison.

    I would definately fit a japanese sprag  Timken or FAG or otherwise similar  " if  not when"   mine goes south.

   It is simply a sprag failure ,-nothing to do with alignment or external forces -pure and simple failure . One replaced I assume it is ok for a while.

       

[ScooterBob]

Good shot,--but when you stomp on the gas on a fairly common 400Hp and the torque convertor stator stops dead and is trying to turn backwards,--- well-- If I was a sprag Ide not like that very much.

     Being fitted to a bastardised 20 HP motorcycle would be like a sprag sitting in a deck chair on  holiday on the beach in comparison.

    I would definately fit a japanese sprag  Timken or FAG or otherwise similar  " if  not when"   mine goes south.

   It is simply a sprag failure ,-nothing to do with alignment or external forces -pure and simple failure . One replaced I assume it is ok for a while.

       

Shows you just how HARD an old Iron Barrel (or big single) can kick back on you .... I had a BSA 441 break a bone in my foot through some serious heavy leather boots on a kickback. There was definitely some cussin' and squallin' from THAT .... plus - if you have ever HEARD the rifle-like *CRACK* of an Enfield sprag getting busted, you'd know there was some power in there .... Just like a 400hp Chev-uh-LAY - but all at once! Heeheehee!!!

[UncleErnie]

I don't know what a Bullet sprag looks like, but I've seen the get busted up in Chinese scooters.  I wonder if a billet sprag would hold up better (longer- like forever)?

[clamp]

As is most things one doesnt know about, it at first seems complicated.

   Ones first nuclear submarine is always the hardest.

   A sprag--  is the most uncomplicated thing in the world three parts to it, and once seen it has to be agreed that failure can not be for any other reason than crap engineering or poor metal.

      It looks like a bearing with long balls.   An outer and an inner race with long balls that dont roll but jam when turned backwards.  So the engine can run faster than the starter, but not the other way round. You can quite safely press the starter button( not like a car) when the engine is running because the starter can not exceed the engine speed.

[GreenMachine]

I think clamp is trying to tell us that the bastardize sprag is crappola and not gonna last...Don't be alarmed if at the most impromptu moment, a bad sound comes from below......Simple device but quality inconsistent to defective....cheers mate

[birdmove]

    You know, there was an old Honda motorcycle called the Ascot that was a 500cc thumper based on the XL500 engine, but in a street roadster configuration. That bike had the kick star removed and an electric start setup was desinged for it. There was a well know weakness in that system, and I can't remember, but it may well have been a sprague clutch problem also. Anyone remember?

  Jon in Puyallup

[clamp]

Yamaha made a v twin in 750  900 and 1100 Virago.

      The starter was appaling. it did not have a sprag but a bendix. when the starter got old and tired or someone changed the battery to a smaller one the problems started.

       As the piston  went over compression it exceeded the speed of the starter and it disengaged, as it slowed it had to re engage and this made a horrendous racket.