Author Topic: Battery Question (Read 4515 times)

DireWolf · **on:** March 03, 2009, 04:26:36 pm

Walking through the garage the other evening (OK, that's a lie-----snuck out to the garage to smoke a cigar) & noticed my Tender Jr. red light on. What the hell? Why would it be charging? Made a mental note & finished my cigar & returned to the house to continue beer-consumption.

Checked it this weekend. Pulled the battery........EMPTY!

Dry. Not low.....dry.

Did my Tender Jr kill it? Boil it? Never saw a drop of anything (like a leak).

So----how to proceed? Fill it with distilled water & try to charge it? Is it screwed? Should I go buy a bag of acid? I really have no idea what to do. Never had a marine or sport battery go dry before.

Cabo Cruz · **Reply #1 on:** March 03, 2009, 04:36:32 pm

Brother Wolf, I would not fill it with acid; I would use distilled water. And, if you have another charger, I would use it, instead of the Tender Jr., to recharge the battery. If the battery comes back up, you may very well have a defective Tender Jr.

ace.cafe · **Reply #2 on:** March 03, 2009, 04:38:13 pm

Basically, it comes down to how long it might have been dry.
If there is white powdery deposits on the plates in the battery, it's toast.
You might be able to revive it for a while with new acid or water, but it won't last as long as it would have if it hadn't run dry. And it might not last long at all.

Best to get a new battery. It's spring, and you don't need hassles with dead batteries.

DireWolf · **Reply #3 on:** March 03, 2009, 04:52:06 pm

Electric Start 08 Military

I'll start shopping, I guess.

14AHL-BS, I believe?

Vince · **Reply #4 on:** March 03, 2009, 06:07:59 pm

YB14L-A2. I often get this situation. It probably was not the tender. They have been very reliable. It is a vented battery, so there will always be some evaporation. Also, even with the best of intentions, I find that a lot of customers did not check the water before attaching the tender. Vented batteries should be checked at least monthly while on the tender.
Do NOT use acid to refill. It was the water that evaporated. The acid is still there. Adding more acid will upset the chemical balance and may cause an explosive situation. At the very least the vented gases will be more caustic.
If there are none of the white deposits that Ace mentioned, adding water will probably bring it back for a while. The tender will charge it well.

The Garbone · **Reply #5 on:** March 03, 2009, 10:26:33 pm

Quote from: DireWolf on March 03, 2009, 04:26:36 pm

Walking through the garage the other evening (OK, that's a lie-----snuck out to the garage to smoke a cigar) & noticed my Tender Jr. red light on. What the hell? Why would it be charging? Made a mental note & finished my cigar & returned to the house to continue beer-consumption.

Checked it this weekend. Pulled the battery........EMPTY!

Dry. Not low.....dry.

Did my Tender Jr kill it? Boil it? Never saw a drop of anything (like a leak).

So----how to proceed? Fill it with distilled water & try to charge it? Is it screwed? Should I go buy a bag of acid? I really have no idea what to do. Never had a marine or sport battery go dry before.

That is the problem with battery tenders/chargers in general. I work around 12 and 6 volt lead acid batteries on constant charge and every so often we see them go into thermal runaway. Basically an electrolytic reaction that releases bunches of hydrogen gas and heat. In the worst case I have seen a string of 12v batteries heat up and swell so much they burst and spill their guts. I have heard of one poorly ventilated closure exploding due to the gas buildup, but thats very rare.

Once they start going into runaway all you can do is take them out of service and replace them.

Personally I think the best method of saving a battery over the winter is not to leave it on a charger but to put it someplace that does not drop below 70 degrees for extended periods, cold weather is what really kills batteries.

PhilJ · **Reply #6 on:** March 04, 2009, 12:51:49 am

Actually, for 12 volt battery systems the ideal temperature is around 64* F.

I have never had a battery go bad on a Battery Tender. When a battery sets without activity, it starts to sulfate no matter what the temperature.

If, after time, your battery starts to go bad, neither charging with a Battery Tender or no charging at all will not stop the battery from failing.

DireWolf · **Reply #7 on:** March 04, 2009, 03:14:20 am

Tonight I set it up on an actual charger with water in it. After three hours of charging, the towel I laid it on is soaked. I think it's a goner.

The Garbone · **Reply #8 on:** March 04, 2009, 03:44:04 am

Well, if a battery goes bad it goes bad, but leaving it on a charger in near freezing temperature adds one more factor for failure, if you take it out of the circuit and use dielectric grease on the terminals it should be good for a winter. Battery in general only have a useful shelf life of 7 years in a controlled environment, temperature variation just decrease their usable life.

When the temperature of a battery drops your charge voltage should also otherwise you increase you likelyhood of overcharging and thermal run away resulting in a dry cell.

That said I have seen batteries be good after 6 years and others go bad after only 1, a lot of times its a crap shoot. I am of an opinion that if a battery goes bad after being disconnected for 4 months it probably would have gone bad with a tender.

PhilJ · **Reply #9 on:** March 04, 2009, 12:54:05 pm

Quote from: The Garbone on March 04, 2009, 03:44:04 am

That said I have seen batteries be good after 6 years and others go bad after only 1, a lot of times its a crap shoot. I am of an opinion that if a battery goes bad after being disconnected for 4 months it probably would have gone bad with a tender.

Very true this.
A Battery Tender floats a 13.2 VDC, that would never cause any trouble to a battery. Now, if the tender goes bad or the battery is going bad... well it just goes bad. I always make periodic checks with my Fluke.
With all the vibration on a MC they just don't seem to last like those in a car.

1Blackwolf1 · **Reply #10 on:** March 05, 2009, 12:45:46 am

Guess I'm just lucky that both of my batteries in our Enfields are okay. Neither was significantly low on water, and both have a good charge still. This from the northern part of Wisconsin where we hover around zero most of the winter.

But I do agree that sometimes a battery will last and sometimes it won't. However over the recent years I have noticed batteries are lasting longer than say 20 years ago. I just changed the original battery in my '02 Chevy S-10 this year, like I say maybe I got lucky.

But I replace batteries with gel cell batteries if I can. They seem to last a lot longer and don't lose fluid as readily and had one of those last over 10 years and the guy that bought that car still has that battery in it.

Found a permaseal battery at Battery Plus for $69.99, #XTA14AHL-B5, suppose I'll try that if mine or the wife's fail. Will.

Cabo Cruz · **Reply #11 on:** March 05, 2009, 01:11:31 am

"But I replace batteries with gel cell batteries if I can. They seem to last a lot longer and don't lose fluid as readily and had one of those last over 10 years and the guy that bought that car still has that battery in it." 1Blackwolf1

Amen!

DonK · **Reply #12 on:** March 05, 2009, 01:39:32 am

Speaking of batteries, I'm thinking about going to the NP7-12 12V 7.0AH sealed battery as in the recent post by The Garbone.
I have a 99 kick start only. I like the way they fit into the tool box. Does any one know if there's any feedback on this set up? I'm actually thinking about 2, one in each tool box.
Could there be any advantages or disadvantages to this?

DireWolf · **Reply #13 on:** March 06, 2009, 02:03:34 pm

Interesting. Found the battery at AdvanceAuto for $47.00. Then Goober says "it'll only be $41.00 with your old core trade in". Then they charged me $47, because of the core deposit on the new one. So my $47 battery that I got for $41 was only $47.

Whatever.

Hey! Guess what else! ---My starter..............worked this morning. Cold. I kicked her over twice with the key off. Turned it on, pushed the choke, and hit the button. Bingo. First time since October 2007.

I KNEW that @#$%ing battery's been a problem all along.

The Garbone · **Reply #14 on:** March 06, 2009, 05:51:25 pm

Quote from: DonK on March 05, 2009, 01:39:32 am

Speaking of batteries, I'm thinking about going to the NP7-12 12V 7.0AH sealed battery as in the recent post by The Garbone.
I have a 99 kick start only. I like the way they fit into the tool box. Does any one know if there's any feedback on this set up? I'm actually thinking about 2, one in each tool box.
Could there be any advantages or disadvantages to this?

2 batteries? The only advantage I see is you have twice the chance of having a battery fail on you..

I have not had any battery issues yet, but then again my setup is still new to me.....
_{look subscript, ain't it neat}

or telatype? why?

Sorry, I need to focus more I guess....

Ok, after ruminating on this a bit more I would suggest if money is no worry that you get a vehicle grade battery instead of the one I used, I opted for the cheap way out, with a 2 or three year life cycle being all I expect.

I wonder about the NP7 battery and its ability to take the intense vibration of the bullet. Will the fiberglass mats between the plates help or hurt when it comes to sedimentation from the lead? I don't really know.

Now that I am thinking about it I do want to find a small analog volt meter to put on my bars and monitor my battery and charging system. That way if the battery starts to fail I can get a jump on it.

bob bezin · **Reply #15 on:** March 06, 2009, 09:18:09 pm

i dont think jumping on a battery will help much . yesterday it got up in the 40"s went ouy to the shed . choked the triumph, turned on the gas, hit the starter . cranked and cranked finally started. maybe the carbs took a wyle to fill up? went to the RE. choke on. pulled the compressor kicked the engine over thrice . turned on the key. released the compressor 1kick started right up . and is has"nt been run for four months.!

1Blackwolf1 · **Reply #16 on:** March 07, 2009, 12:57:29 am

Quote from: DonK on March 05, 2009, 01:39:32 am

Speaking of batteries, I'm thinking about going to the NP7-12 12V 7.0AH sealed battery as in the recent post by The Garbone.
I have a 99 kick start only. I like the way they fit into the tool box. Does any one know if there's any feedback on this set up? I'm actually thinking about 2, one in each tool box.
Could there be any advantages or disadvantages to this?

I agree that a twin battery set-up in parallel would do little of any good, may even fry your starter since it would be doubling the amperage to the starter. And cause the starter to spin so fast the engine wouldn't have a chance to "catch" and run. Would be sort of like using a car battery straight to the starter. And would more than likely place extra strain on the charging system. The old Cad/Lincolns that had that set-up had a switch either timed or manual that would allow you to charge the one battery then the other. Was more of a starting aid for those old 472 CID Cads/500 CID Lincolns than anything else. If you ran one battery down you had a back-up, sort of like a pre-installed booster battery. It can be done but guess I wouldn't do it myself. Will.

DonK · **Reply #17 on:** March 08, 2009, 01:12:43 pm

I have kick start only. I was thinking more for the lighting, My lamps seem kind of dim.

1Blackwolf1 · **Reply #18 on:** March 08, 2009, 08:36:22 pm

Again you'll be throwing higher amperage into your electrical system, lights and bulbs have an amperage limit. So you would probably have brighter lights..temporarily until they pop. I would go with different lights that operate at a lower amperage but produce more candlepower. HID lighting fits the bill but I have never seen or figured it out on paper to give you any idea as to what should work.

I've seen it here on the site from others that have done these conversions, so the information is here, just can't tell when/who wrote them. I believe it might have been Geoff Baker on his diesel conversion. Will.

Rick Sperko · **Reply #19 on:** March 08, 2009, 09:59:16 pm

Quote from: DonK on March 08, 2009, 01:12:43 pm

I have kick start only. I was thinking more for the lighting, My lamps seem kind of dim.

LEDs have been great for me. I turned my turn indicators into running lights so they are always on and all my lamps are very bright. I do have the 7" tri-bar as well.

-Rick

PhilJ · **Reply #20 on:** March 08, 2009, 10:36:10 pm

Will, I think maybe your misunderstanding the electrics. A 12 V bulb that is rated at, say 5 watts, will only draw as much current as it needs to operate. In other words, you can connect it you normal 14 AH motorcycle battery or you could connect it to your car battery that has umteen zillion amps. It will only draw what it needs. Now up the voltage and powee, it's a goner. Voltage is the driving force and current is doing the work.

Here's a link for Ohms Law. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohms_law

The two batteries are fine, although unneeded for what he described, unless he hooks them in series. Then all is lost. 24 VDC.